105 replies to this topic

[HeroOfTime5]

One mistake I see often is the placement of the Oracle series and ALttP. Lots of people think that LA is the sequel to the Oracle games but I think so other wise. Okay here are my evidence of why LA is not to to the Oracle series.

1. First of all the two ships look nothing alike what so ever. I'll try to find a picture of one.

2. Read the prologue and you'll see why.

Prologue
Though you fulfilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon, the land of Hyrule enjoyed only a precarious peace. "Who know's what threats may arise from Ganon's ashes?" the restless people murmured as they knitted their brows and shook their heads. Ever vigilant, you decided to journey away from Hyrule on a quest for englightenment, in search of wisdom that would make you better able to withstand the next threat to your homeland.

Months of difficult travel passed. After a long and fruitful voyage, you breathed deeply the sea spray from the deck of the ship that carried you home to Hyrule. But your homecoming was not to be. Suddenly a squall struck your ship, and though you valiantly fought the waves, a lightning bolt reduced your ship to splinters.

Your world faded black as you sank into the darkness of the storm-tossed sea with the remains of your craft. But in the cold darkness of the deep, you heard a comforting voice that reminded you of home. It was the voice of Princess Zelda!

"You're going to be alright!" the voice said. "What a relief!"

You opened your eyes to find Princess Zelda standing over you - or was it?! Actually, it turned out to be a woman named Marin. She explained that you had drifted with the wreckage of your ship to the shores of Koholint Island. This mysterious island was unique for the gigantic egg which crowned its central mountain. It was said that a mythical creature, the Wind Fish, lay asleep inside the egg.

You set out in search of your sword and other gear that might have washed up on the beach with you. As you stood in the surf with your recovered sword, a strange owl suddenly appeared and hooted this riddle:

"Awaken the Wind Fish and all will be answered."

"What is the Wind Fish?" you wonder... And what did its awakening portend? Your most mysterious adventure yet, following the riddle of the Wind Fish through the uncharted island of Koholint, is about to unfold.

I underlined the most important points in the prologe.

"Who know's what threats may arise from Ganon's ashes?"

It is simply saying that at this time, Ganon is still dead and has not been revived in any way. Contradicts the ending of Oracle games doesn't it?

Though you fulfilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon

Sounds familar? It came from ALttP, there was no legendary hero or Hyrulian prophecy fullfilled in the oracle games now was there? Oh yeah and Ganon was also destroyed in ALttP. Was he not?

next threat to your homeland.

Let's say that the order goes like this:

ALttP>>OoS/OoA>>>LA

Well in the oracle series Hyrule was threatened indeed because of the events
that happened in Labyrana and the Holodrum. Zelda was captured and Ganon was returning. So that means there was another threat. By reading the prologue in LA it saids as if the last threat was from ALttP. Am I'm wrong? I doubt it.

3. The Link from LA is confirmed to be the same Link from ALttP. So the only 2 places where the game can lie is before ALttP or after ALttP. It can't be before because of the events happening prior to LA, wouldn't match any other game besides ALttP.

4. And with credit going to a.Threepwood, there is also another possibly piece of evidence. When Link is fighting the Nightmare, in LA, it appears in the form of Link's past enemies, one of the forms is Aganhim, and in what game Link fought Aganhim?

So there you have it. This is how it follows

ALttP>>LA

Any questions or comments would be very much appreciate. I promise I wont bite:) . Enjoy!

Edited by HeroOfTime5, 14 July 2006 - 05:51 PM.

[HeroOfTime5]

Another proof:

When Link is fighting the Nightmare, it appears in the form of Link's past enemies, one of the forms is Aganhim, and in what game Link fought Aganhim?

Very true thanks I'll added that with credit given to you.

[Reflectionist]

Link's Awakening was just a dream anyway. None of it happened. Are you really debating after when Link had a dream?

You're forgetting the political reasons why LA is after LttP.

LoZ - AoL = Sequel. Link to the what? Past. P-A-S-T. Past. That means

LttP - LoZ - AoL.

So there's only two places LA could go. After LttP, or after AoL. And the prologue to LA, like you posted up there, is proof that it's not after AoL. So it *has* to be after LttP. End of Story. Myth Busted.

[Jumbie]

OH. MY. GOD. WHY?!
Please tell me why not one single day can go by without one of you two starting another useless thread..!

If you still haven't noticed - we don't need a new thread to discuss the placement of every single Zelda game!!! By the time that you joined, we had two nice 'Perfect Timeline' threads in which to discuss the placement of all the games one after another, nice and slow.
Tell me, have you noticed any other thread of this kind being opened lately by someone else than you and MoALttP? No, since we others have read the forum rules, which say that the opening of all too similar threads should be avoided. Now, if we already had two timeline threads running, what's the sense in opening a new one for each game? Honestly, I really, really fear that in 7 days from now, you will have managed to open 12 new threads in total for the placement of every single game
Although I'm thankful for the one about the Hylian in TMC, this one right here is the most unneeded of all. Know that when you were not yet member, we discussed this very issue elsewhere, to no real agreement (at least not from me).

Even if I should stay the only one to do so, I'm still fully convinced that LA does happen after Oracles, and no repetition of ambiguous evidence from LA's manual can ever change my mind.
- All points that you named can just as easily be understood as summarizing the past events in Oracles.
- The boat sprite that you neglected so unprofessionally is *exactly the same one*, only that it's entirely black and without a sail in LA, while in Oracles it is coloured and with sail.
- Ganon was revived in Oracles, but killed again. Thus, a heap of ashes can well be left after Oracles.
- There was in fact a prophecy in Oracles as well, proven by the Triforce mark that appeared on Link's hand. As you hopefully know, whoever this mark appears on is the prophesized hero (speaking of Link, not of Zelda and Ganon). Impa recognizes this early in one of the games.
- The 'homeland' can still refer to Hyrule, as it was indirectly defended from Ganon, along with two other countries - just as you've ironically pointed out yourself
- The fact that Agahnim appears as a Nightmare (not speaking about Ganon, who also appeared at the end of Oracles) can do absolutely nothing to me. Agahnim has every right to appear in a dream consisting of Link's memories, even if the Oracles' Link never met Agahnim: he is a reincarnated person, and the Wind Fish as a deity has got in store the memories of all incarnations of Link that ever roamed Hyrule, also the memory of ALttP's Link, thus justifying Ganon.
For anyone who feels the need to dismiss this well-working theory as a personal fan fiction of mine, I can also say play Oracles again and meet Agahnim in there. It's true, he really is a minor boss enemy in one of the games!

Lastly, I'm by no means standing alone with this particular view. Many of my fellow webmasters are so bright as to realize the striking evidence of Link leaving Hyrule on a ship at the end of Oracles, and that is the only evidence we need to prove their place before LA, and not after it.
Though there is one game that vaguely hints at LA being after ALttP, that's only Kodai no Sekiban, a game which must never be used to determine any timeline placements (although it is canon, it is far less valid than the other 12 Zelda games, since it has never appeared outside of Japan and even there for 4 or 8 mere weeks).

Well, that's it from me. I wish this thread a quiet future forgotten somewhere in the archives, as I will not return to defend my view any further, and with me left, you will probably be amongst equal-thinking persons here so that it makes basically no sense to discuss a point in which you all agree.

Edited by Jumbie, 14 July 2006 - 07:21 PM.

[mohammedali]

Nice work HeroOfTime5. I'm going to play devils advocate here. I personally agree that LA is a sequal to aLttP, but I don't think that having LA as a sequal to OoX has been completely disproven.

1. First of all the two ships look nothing alike what so ever. I'll try to find a picture of one.

The ships look the same as far as anyone can tell. As the ship isn't shown long enough, not much else can be said about them. Jumbie posted pictures showing this in another thread.

It is simply saying that at this time, Ganon is still dead and has not been revived in any way. Contradicts the ending of Oracle games doesn't it?

Actually it says 'who knows what will rise from Ganon's ashes', which is very differnt to 'Ganon has not been revived in any way'. Ganon is destroyed in OoX as well, so there is no reason why this quote is not a reference to that.

Sounds familar? It came from ALttP, there was no legendary hero or Hyrulian prophecy fullfilled in the oracle games now was there? Oh yeah and Ganon was also destroyed in ALttP. Was he not?

Ganon is destroyed in most games, but he has a nack for coming back, the cheeky begger.
As for Hyrulian prophecy, it can be argued to work for the OoX games, though I personally take this to clearly be a reference to aLttP. I agree that this was written for aLttP, though this line isn't proof against it coming after OoX.

By reading the prologue in LA it saids as if the last threat was from ALttP. Am I'm wrong? I doubt it.

It doesn't say the last threat was from aLttP in the prologue in LA anywhere.

The Link from LA is confirmed to be the same Link from ALttP.

Where was it confirmed? Quotes?

When Link is fighting the Nightmare, in LA, it appears in the form of Link's past enemies, one of the forms is Aganhim, and in what game Link fought Aganhim?

There's also an owl that looks like KG. Does that mean LA comes after OoT?
LA takes place in a dream world, so characters from any of the games can happily appear without any problem.

I'm not saying I disagree with you on this point, but we haven't found a concrete proof. If someone says they think the timeline has LA following OoX, we need concrete proof to discredit it.
For me LA Link and aLttP will always be one and the same, but until I have more evidence for why this is the only way it can work at all, we have to accept the fact there are people with different views for whom we can't disprove yet. Good attempt though.

Mohammed Ali

[Jumbie]

Well, forget about my promise to never again comment in here
Many thanks, mohammedali, for clarifying that HeroOfTime5's "evidence" are everything but evidence! Still, there's some things I have to point out.

Threepwood: Link leaves in a ship at the end of TWW, does that mean that this goes before LA?

Of course not! Firstly, we already got Phantom Hourglass as a sequel to TWW. Secondly, Link is hardly all alone on Tetra's pirate ship (granted that you didn't refer to the KoRL, who obviously looks totally different than the ship sprite in LA and OoX). Thirdly, LA's manual saying Link saved Hyrule doesn't apply at all to TWW where Hyrule was destroyed in the end.

And LA possibly wasn' t a dream, I think that the Wind Fish created a paralel universe (Like Termina) based on the memories of ALTTP' s Link, this universe was destroyed when Link acomplished his task of awaken the Wind Fish.

Exactly what I believe With the difference that I think this temporary parallel universe might just as well be called a dream, as it functions like a dream and is referred to as a dream in the game itself.

Another lame argument that's often used to defend an ALttP+LA connection is their identic artwork style. However, although Link looks the same in ALttP and LA, the ALttP style was just a modernization of the AoL style. And Link looks the same in TWW and FSA, as well - do they feature the same Link because of that?!

Ok now, what I really want you to consider is this:
Back when Shigeru Miyamoto was asked about the placement of LA, he stated that it could possibly go anywhere in the timeline. Knowing that Miyamoto never cared about a consistent overall timeline, only about correct in-game storylines, this means that he as the director of all Zelda games before MM never designed LA to follow any specific game. At that time, LA could have been the sequel to ALttP. But it could just as well have been the sequel to LoZ+AoL. The stuff in LA's manual would match with either game.
Now, when Capcom was given the chance to develop OoX, it was them who decided to connect their new games to an already existent game: LA. No matter if Nintendo had earlier tried to provide a vague connection between ALttP and LA - Capcom got rid of that. They could've made Link leave in OoX on anything - on his horse from the beginning, or one of the animals he befriended - but no, they made him leave Hyrule on the exact same ship he's on in LA's intro!! And Nintendo obviously approved that decision, otherwise they would have intervened.
Thus, my placing of LA after OoX is not just a random idea, but irrefutably based on one single proof: the ship. Any attempts to disprove this game order are a waste of time - it's one of the strongest canonic connections ever made between Zelda games. That's all there is to it.

Edited by Jumbie, 15 July 2006 - 10:00 AM.

[HeroOfTime5]

OH. MY. GOD. WHY?!
Please tell me why not one single day can go by without one of you two starting another useless thread..!

If you still haven't noticed - we don't need a new thread to discuss the placement of every single Zelda game!!! By the time that you joined, we had two nice 'Perfect Timeline' threads in which to discuss the placement of all the games one after another, nice and slow.
Tell me, have you noticed any other thread of this kind being opened lately by someone else than you and MoALttP? No, since we others have read the forum rules, which say that the opening of all too similar threads should be avoided. Now, if we already had two timeline threads running, what's the sense in opening a new one for each game? Honestly, I really, really fear that in 7 days from now, you will have managed to open 12 new threads in total for the placement of every single game
Although I'm thankful for the one about the Hylian in TMC, this one right here is the most unneeded of all. Know that when you were not yet member, we discussed this very issue elsewhere, to no real agreement (at least not from me).

That is in your opinion. If you have something to say to either me or MoALttP, then say it personally other wise I don't want to hear about it.

Even if I should stay the only one to do so, I'm still fully convinced that LA does happen after Oracles, and no repetition of ambiguous evidence from LA's manual can ever change my mind.
- All points that you named can just as easily be understood as summarizing the past events in Oracles.
- The boat sprite that you neglected so unprofessionally is *exactly the same one*, only that it's entirely black and without a sail in LA, while in Oracles it is coloured and with sail.
- Ganon was revived in Oracles, but killed again. Thus, a heap of ashes can well be left after Oracles.
- There was in fact a prophecy in Oracles as well, proven by the Triforce mark that appeared on Link's hand. As you hopefully know, whoever this mark appears on is the prophesized hero (speaking of Link, not of Zelda and Ganon). Impa recognizes this early in one of the games.
- The 'homeland' can still refer to Hyrule, as it was indirectly defended from Ganon, along with two other countries - just as you've ironically pointed out yourself
- The fact that Agahnim appears as a Nightmare (not speaking about Ganon, who also appeared at the end of Oracles) can do absolutely nothing to me. Agahnim has every right to appear in a dream consisting of Link's memories, even if the Oracles' Link never met Agahnim: he is a reincarnated person, and the Wind Fish as a deity has got in store the memories of all incarnations of Link that ever roamed Hyrule, also the memory of ALttP's Link, thus justifying Ganon.
For anyone who feels the need to dismiss this well-working theory as a personal fan fiction of mine, I can also say play Oracles again and meet Agahnim in there. It's true, he really is a minor boss enemy in one of the games!

Lastly, I'm by no means standing alone with this particular view. Many of my fellow webmasters are so bright as to realize the striking evidence of Link leaving Hyrule on a ship at the end of Oracles, and that is the only evidence we need to prove their place before LA, and not after it.
Though there is one game that vaguely hints at LA being after ALttP, that's only Kodai no Sekiban, a game which must never be used to determine any timeline placements (although it is canon, it is far less valid than the other 12 Zelda games, since it has never appeared outside of Japan and even there for 4 or 8 mere weeks).

Well, that's it from me. I wish this thread a quiet future forgotten somewhere in the archives, as I will not return to defend my view any further, and with me left, you will probably be amongst equal-thinking persons here so that it makes basically no sense to discuss a point in which you all agree.

Your reasonings are based off of poor assumptions.

Edited by HeroOfTime5, 15 July 2006 - 10:47 AM.

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

Link's Awakening was just a dream anyway. None of it happened. Are you really debating after when Link had a dream?

You're forgetting the political reasons why LA is after LttP.

LoZ - AoL = Sequel. Link to the what? Past. P-A-S-T. Past. That means

LttP - LoZ - AoL.

So there's only two places LA could go. After LttP, or after AoL. And the prologue to LA, like you posted up there, is proof that it's not after AoL. So it *has* to be after LttP. End of Story. Myth Busted.

*pops into this forum*

You can't use that as proof at all. For one thing, LttP's original Japanese name was Triforce of the Gods if I remember correctly.

*pops away*

[mohammedali]

Hey Jumbie, did you get my PM? Anyway, regarding your post...

Ok now, what I really want you to consider is this:
Back when Shigeru Miyamoto was asked about the placement of LA, he stated that it could possibly go anywhere in the timeline. Knowing that Miyamoto never cared about a consistent overall timeline, only about correct in-game storylines, this means that he as the director of all Zelda games before MM never designed LA to follow any specific game. At that time, LA could have been the sequel to ALttP. But it could just as well have been the sequel to LoZ+AoL. The stuff in LA's manual would match with either game.
Now, when Capcom was given the chance to develop OoX, it was them who decided to connect their new games to an already existent game: LA. No matter if Nintendo had earlier tried to provide a vague connection between ALttP and LA - Capcom got rid of that. They could've made Link leave in OoX on anything - on his horse from the beginning, or one of the animals he befriended - but no, they made him leave Hyrule on the exact same ship he's on in LA's intro!! And Nintendo obviously approved that decision, otherwise they would have intervened.
Thus, my placing of LA after OoX is not just a random idea, but irrefutably based on one single proof: the ship. Any attempts to disprove this game order are a waste of time - it's one of the strongest canonic connections ever made between Zelda games. That's all there is to it.

The interview you are talking about with Miyamoto san has been proven to contradict ingame facts. For example, the instruction book and box both tell us that aLttP comes before LoZ and AoL. Yet the timeline Miyamoto gave put aLttP after both of these games. Further more, there was no reasoning given for any of the placements. Therefore, where he suggested LA should go should not be considered as to hold too much importance. It is clear to see that at the time of LA's release, it was indeed meant to be a sequal to aLttP. If that's changed or not since then is another matter.
As for the ship, it's by no means irrefutable proof. There is every chance that there are 2 different people that use similar looking ships. I agree that Link leaving on a ship in OoX, and then crashing in a ship in LA is suggestive to there being a link, however, so is the appearance of Aghanim. Neither are proof, but mearly imply something. That is why I accept that either possibilities can work, and until something more conclusive is found, it should be left as a choice to the theorist with what seems more fitting.

Mohammed Ali

Edited by mohammedali, 15 July 2006 - 01:02 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Link's Awakening was just a dream anyway. None of it happened. Are you really debating after when Link had a dream?

A dream made physically manifest no less.

[Reflectionist]

A dream made physically manifest no less.

No. A dream.... as in, he went on a boat, got in a wreck, fell asleep, and woke up. End of game.

You can debate on when Link left to go, but that doesn't have to be anywhere specific. Who's to say when Link went on a boat?

Just because there's no proof in any of the Zelda games that Link has ever taken a huge dump doesn't mean that he has no intestines. Who cares?

It's a dream.

There's a boat in Twilight Princess. And..... O_O there's a STORM in Twilight Princess!!!! Maybe LINK had a Dream then!?!?


Please. This is ridiculous.

Edited by Reflectionist, 15 July 2006 - 09:45 PM.

[Jumbie]

Yes Mohammedali, I got it.

mohammedali: The interview you are talking about with Miyamoto san has been proven to contradict ingame facts.
Therefore, where he suggested LA should go should not be considered as to hold too much importance.

Of course Miyamoto's timeline theory was not the correct one, but simply a rash guess, seeing as he had never cared at all about having a consistent timeline between *all* of the Zelda games. But keep in mind, he was the director of all of them, and if LA really was intended as a sequel to ALttP, Miyamoto would never have said it "can go anywhere". He is not a liar, after all.

It is clear to see that at the time of LA's release, it was indeed meant to be a sequal to aLttP. If that's changed or not since then is another matter.

Since it has indeed changed, LA's previous placement after ALttP isn't of any interest anymore.

As for the ship, it's by no means irrefutable proof. There is every chance that there are 2 different people that use similar looking ships.

From a timeline theorist's view: The assumption that Hyrule's history has seen two different Links leave Hyrule in a ship of same model is just as improbable as the assumption of two Imprisoning Wars.
From a developers' view: They could've made Link leave in OoX on anything - on his horse from the beginning, or one of the animals he befriended - but no, they made him leave Hyrule on the exact same ship he's on in LA's intro.

I agree that Link leaving on a ship in OoX, and then crashing in a ship in LA is suggestive to there being a link, however, so is the appearance of Aghanim. Neither are proof, but mearly imply something.

Agahnim's appearance as a nightmare doesn't imply anything. As you said yourself, in the Wind Fish's dream any characters from throughout the whole Zelda saga can appear. Moreover, Agahnim did appear in OoX as well.

That is why I accept that either possibilities can work, and until something more conclusive is found, it should be left as a choice to the theorist with what seems more fitting.

Yes, the placement of LA is certainly the most unimportant issue of the whole timeline. That's why I regard this thread as useless. Of course, I also see why it seems nice to have LA as a sequel to ALttP. However: the Oracles games were created...
It's a shame that the officials will most likely never elaborate on what the ship was really supposed to imply, but if I ever ran into a Capcom employee, the first thing I'd ask him would be this.

Reflectionist: A dream.... as in, he went on a boat, got in a wreck, fell asleep, and woke up.

Certainly not that way I simply wouldn't have played a game that later turns out to be an unimportant dream, you know?! LA was much more than a mere dream, and anyone with a little imagination will realize why.

There's a boat in Twilight Princess. And..... O_O there's a STORM in Twilight Princess!!!! Maybe LINK had a Dream then!?!? Please. This is ridiculous.

There's no ship of that size in TP, neither is there such a tempest. What matters is if there was an ocean that Link embarked onto, and the only game (besides TWW) that shows exactly that happening is a linked Oracles game - is it really that hard to understand?! The one who's ridiculous is you.

[mohammedali]

Of course Miyamoto's timeline theory was not the correct one, but simply a rash guess, seeing as he had never cared at all about having a consistent timeline between *all* of the Zelda games. But keep in mind, he was the director of all of them, and if LA really was intended as a sequel to ALttP, Miyamoto would never have said it "can go anywhere". He is not a liar, after all.

But the same can be said about his comment of aLttP. As you correctly said, his timeline was not correct and was seemingly a rash guess. Therefore, we can't take his comment about LA seriously, just like we can't take his comment about aLttP seriously. Had the LA comment been in a different interview then that would have been different, but the fact is he said it all in that same sentance, and that sentance has been proven to be incorrect.

Since it has indeed changed, LA's previous placement after ALttP isn't of any interest anymore.

The point is that we don't know if it has changed. It may have done, it may have not.

From a timeline theorist's view: The assumption that Hyrule's history has seen two different Links leave Hyrule in a ship of same model is just as improbable as the assumption of two Imprisoning Wars.
From a developers' view: They could've made Link leave in OoX on anything - on his horse from the beginning, or one of the animals he befriended - but no, they made him leave Hyrule on the exact same ship he's on in LA's intro.

That is by no means conclusive. Link finishes MM with a horse, we then see Link in OoX with a horse.... does that mean that OoT Link and OoX Link is the same person? They could have started OoX Link on anything, but to choose a horse? As you can tell, your reasoning with the ship doesn't work.

Agahnim's appearance as a nightmare doesn't imply anything. As you said yourself, in the Wind Fish's dream any characters from throughout the whole Zelda saga can appear. Moreover, Agahnim did appear in OoX as well.

My point is that just like Aghamins appearance seems like an indication to LA being an aLttP sequal, the ship is also an indication to LA being an OoX sequal. However, neither guarentee the placement at all.

Mohammed Ali

[MikePetersSucks]

No. A dream.... as in, he went on a boat, got in a wreck, fell asleep, and woke up. End of game.

You can debate on when Link left to go, but that doesn't have to be anywhere specific. Who's to say when Link went on a boat?

Just because there's no proof in any of the Zelda games that Link has ever taken a huge dump doesn't mean that he has no intestines. Who cares?

It's a dream.

There's a boat in Twilight Princess. And..... O_O there's a STORM in Twilight Princess!!!! Maybe LINK had a Dream then!?!?


Please. This is ridiculous.

You're missing my point. The Wind Fish's dreams are only unique in that his power makes them physically manifest. The Wind Fish is demonstrating genuine reality warping. Sure, it's a dream. No one's refuting that, but the game heavily implies that the island, for the duration of the dream, is physically there.

[Fyxe]

From a timeline theorist's view: The assumption that Hyrule's history has seen two different Links leave Hyrule in a ship of same model is just as improbable as the assumption of two Imprisoning Wars.

Come off it. A ship's a ship. And that's hardly comparible.

[Arturo]

Come off it. A ship's a ship. And that's hardly comparible.

In MM Link goes to Hyrule by horse and in OoX he starts by horse. Are OoX a sequel to MM? NO

[Showsni]

Just to play devil's advocate a bit, remember that Link mistakes Marin for Zelda when he first sees her?

Based on Oracles in game sprite, that's hardly surprising...

Attached Files

•  zeldas.JPG   2.95K   13 downloads

Edited by Showsni, 16 July 2006 - 03:41 PM.

[Reflectionist]

You're missing my point. The Wind Fish's dreams are only unique in that his power makes them physically manifest. The Wind Fish is demonstrating genuine reality warping. Sure, it's a dream. No one's refuting that, but the game heavily implies that the island, for the duration of the dream, is physically there.

Okay, it's kind of like the Matrix: "Your mind makes it real"

Copy that. Debate on. I've never played the game, I've never worried about it's story, because to me, it's just a dream.

Edited by Reflectionist, 16 July 2006 - 04:29 PM.

[Hero of Slime]

I put LA after ALttP in my Timeline because I do not think the evidence for it being after OoX is conclusive enough to contradict the game creator's original intentions. However, I do think that it is possible for the game creators to have changed the timeline after OoX and made LA a sequel to OoX instead of ALttP.

[Fyxe]

In MM Link goes to Hyrule by horse and in OoX he starts by horse. Are OoX a sequel to MM? NO

Uh, that was my point. Ships looking alike is hardly proof of anything.

I've never played the game

Oh dear me. Deprived child alert!

Edited by Fyxe, 16 July 2006 - 05:44 PM.

[Reflectionist]

Uh, that was my point. Ships looking alike is hardly proof of anything.
Oh dear me. Deprived child alert!

I wasn't complaining; just saying I'm not the expert on that game. :-)

[Fyxe]

No, I know, I was geniunely saying poor you. You need to play it. It's such a good game.

[Reflectionist]

I probably will find an emulator or something. If I can find one.

Edited by Reflectionist, 16 July 2006 - 09:19 PM.

[mohammedali]

Showsni, that sprite has got me thinking.
I always found it odd in LA where it spoke about Marin reminding Link of Zelda because Marin looks nothing like aLttP Zelda. However, the Zelda in OoX looks near enough identical to Marin.
I think if ever there was 'proof' for the OoX - LA connection, this would be it.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Except that we've never seen the ALttP Zelda in LA/Oracle games graphic style. Since Zelda in the official art from the Oracle games looks extremely similar to Zelda from ALttP, we can assume that she would ALSO look like that.

While this is proof that Marin does look like Zelda (enough that they used the same sprite as a basis), it is not proof in any way that LA is a sequel to the Oracle games. All it is is proof that they use the same graphic engine. Which we didn't really need proof for.

[Alardonin]

*pops into this forum*

You can't use that as proof at all. For one thing, LttP's original Japanese name was Triforce of the Gods if I remember correctly.

*pops away*

have to agree with 14-year-old here,besides even if the name Triforce of of the Gods was not proof enough you must realise that maybe the link to the past it self is not the game itself but the acountings of the Imprisoning War explained in ALTTP.

[Jumbie]

Arturo: In MM Link goes to Hyrule by horse and in OoX he starts by horse. Are OoX a sequel to MM? NO

Hey, good idea, I never thought of that Why not, it would make sense as one of those weird theories where MM Link re-emerges in Hyrule many centuries later than he originally left it... at a time long after ALttP has happened. Then he rides to Hyrule Castle on the same Epona, and touches the united Triforce - voilà!

But no, that was just kidding. Fact is, Epona in MM is a 3D model, while in OoX the horse is a 2D graphic. That's why you can't compare Epona being the same to the ship sprite being the same. A sprite isn't that hard to do, so the developers wouldn't *have* had to reuse the old one, if it wasn't for a reason.

mohammedali: However, the Zelda in OoX looks near enough identical to Marin.
I think if ever there was 'proof' for the OoX - LA connection, this would be it.

Come on, not even I would take something like that as evidence Then again, why not corrupt this sprite similarity as evidence, while already collecting evidence for my game order...

[Fyxe]

A sprite isn't that hard to do, so the developers wouldn't *have* had to reuse the old one, if it wasn't for a reason.

You take the sprite being *similar* (IT'S NOT THE SAME, heck, the one in the Oracle games isn't technically a sprite) as evidence, yet...

Come on, not even I would take something like that as evidence

You deride mohammedali for doing the exact same thing?

Lets face it, in a game that uses the exact same graphical engine, similarities don't mean much at all. Still, the Marin/Zelda thing is interesting, if only that.

Edited by Fyxe, 17 July 2006 - 06:20 PM.