The problem with Zelda is that they WANT us to be confused, so they put games in every which way, and leave us to sort the mess.
*Sigh* Oot Time Travel
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, Sep 28 2004 09:29 PM
48 replies to this topic
#32
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:27 PM
I'm a supporter of single timeline myself. And I do get what your talking about Chronicle, I just don't agree with it 
#33
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:29 PM
Please tell me what you don't agree with? THeres only two ways for the timeline NOT to split... this way, believing time is a little flexible, or the infinite time loop.
#34
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:37 PM
I still don't agree because if Link doesn't sleep for those years Zelda won't have a reason to send him back, so he can't be there to not pull the Master Sword, unless you believe that there are two Links at the same period of time...Originally posted by chronicle@Oct 1 2004, 08:58 PM
Weren't you reading what I typed? He DOES pull the sword! but no paradox is created because HE LEAVES HYRULE WHEN HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ASLEEP FOR SEVEN YEARS! He doesn't do anything differen't in Hyrule, so nothing is affected. There is no alternate timeline created, he simply CHANGES the original one enough for him to get to Termina. He simply comes and defeats Ganon in seven years when he is old enough to awaken the sages... No loop, no multi timeline...
Not to be mean, but read what I say.
LINK DOESN'T TRAVEL THROUGH TIME UNTIL HE IS AN ADULT!
It's verysimple, think of it in terms of Back to the Future. These characters go back in time and inadvertantly change small things that bring the changes beck to the future. Only MAJOR CHANGES split the timeline. Since no truly major changes take place, such as Link not pulling the master sword, or Ganandorf getting hit by a bus, Things would happen in much the same way, except Link now has his childhood back... This is also why no time loop happens. The second time through, Zelda doesn't have to send him back. The minor Changes? Instead of Link simply disappearing for seven years into the temple of light, he simply disappears into Termina. Even if he came back fairly early, he couldn't awaken the sages until he was an adult anyway, since most of the puzzles require Adult skills and tools.
Get it?
#35
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:40 PM
but he DOES pull the sword... both times...
Didn't I say that?
Didn't I say that?
#36
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:44 PM
Of course I was referring when he was young.Originally posted by chronicle@Oct 1 2004, 09:40 PM
but he DOES pull the sword... both times...
Didn't I say that?
#37
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:47 PM
As was I... He Pulls it, falls asleep, wakes up, beats Ganny senseless, get sent back to right after he pulled the sword, puts the sword back in, goes to Termina, Comes back, beats Ganny senseless, goes on with his older life...
#38
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:47 PM
Let me tell you about facts.
What we see in the game is Link leaving the Temple of Time and going to see Zelda.
Here's what we DON'T see.
We don't see Ganondorf, so we don't know where he is in the child timeline.
We don't see any real indication of time, so we don't know when Link came back. Could be before he got the Master Sword in the first place, or just after he came back from the Spirit Temple and time travelled for the last time.
We certainly don't see him picking up the Master Sword again, or anything at all that happened after Majora's Mask, for that matter.
So anything you say can only be speculation.
One with major plotholes, too. One, Link wasn't sealed because he wasn't mature enough, he was sealed because he was too young. Having been in the future and back doesn't change that. Heck, you even say yourself that he still needs to wait 7 years before confronting Ganon, so being sent back by the Ocarina changed nothing. Why would things suddenly go any differently than they did all the other times you went back in time? Two, if Link's quest was not, in fact, over, then Navi has no reason to leave Link when they come back. Your theory involves too many things happening "just 'cause".
What we see in the game is Link leaving the Temple of Time and going to see Zelda.
Here's what we DON'T see.
We don't see Ganondorf, so we don't know where he is in the child timeline.
We don't see any real indication of time, so we don't know when Link came back. Could be before he got the Master Sword in the first place, or just after he came back from the Spirit Temple and time travelled for the last time.
We certainly don't see him picking up the Master Sword again, or anything at all that happened after Majora's Mask, for that matter.
So anything you say can only be speculation.
One with major plotholes, too. One, Link wasn't sealed because he wasn't mature enough, he was sealed because he was too young. Having been in the future and back doesn't change that. Heck, you even say yourself that he still needs to wait 7 years before confronting Ganon, so being sent back by the Ocarina changed nothing. Why would things suddenly go any differently than they did all the other times you went back in time? Two, if Link's quest was not, in fact, over, then Navi has no reason to leave Link when they come back. Your theory involves too many things happening "just 'cause".
#39
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:57 PM
No more speculation than any other theory, why Navi leaves, I cannot explain.. other than the designers need to have cause for a sequel.
As for being sent back, the whole point was for him to get his childhood back... which wouldn't happen if he went in the temple again, so it is safe to say he did not... not only this, but Majora's mask takes place at this time as well. The parts I "soecualted" on happen to avoid a time loop or paradox. Why don't we see what happens after Majora's Mask? Because it's the same thing that happened during the Ocarina of time... this is speculation of course, necessary for ANY theory. If it were all proven already, I would have no need of posting this...
As for being sent back, the whole point was for him to get his childhood back... which wouldn't happen if he went in the temple again, so it is safe to say he did not... not only this, but Majora's mask takes place at this time as well. The parts I "soecualted" on happen to avoid a time loop or paradox. Why don't we see what happens after Majora's Mask? Because it's the same thing that happened during the Ocarina of time... this is speculation of course, necessary for ANY theory. If it were all proven already, I would have no need of posting this...
#40
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:58 PM
I see, so he "changes" the future?Originally posted by chronicle@Oct 1 2004, 09:47 PM
As was I... He Pulls it, falls asleep, wakes up, beats Ganny senseless, get sent back to right after he pulled the sword, puts the sword back in, goes to Termina, Comes back, beats Ganny senseless, goes on with his older life...
#41
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:12 PM
Yes, in the sense that he doesn't get sent back again O.o
He doesn't need to. Everything happens pretty much the same, Link does everything he needs to do and moves on. This doesn't create a paradox and I'll show you why.
This image is an illustration of what Link actually does.. PLease note that the two lines do NOT inply mulit timelines in any way, I simply couldn't draw both lines on top of each other and have to see both of them. When he goes back, he changes the past, thus slightly changin minor details in the futre, the biggest detail changed is that he no longer must travel back again.
He doesn't need to. Everything happens pretty much the same, Link does everything he needs to do and moves on. This doesn't create a paradox and I'll show you why.
This image is an illustration of what Link actually does.. PLease note that the two lines do NOT inply mulit timelines in any way, I simply couldn't draw both lines on top of each other and have to see both of them. When he goes back, he changes the past, thus slightly changin minor details in the futre, the biggest detail changed is that he no longer must travel back again.
#42
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:22 PM
I still don't agree because of philosophical factors. He must do exactly the same, otherwise a paradox will be created, if he waits until he's an adult to pull the Master Sword, Zelda won't have a reason to send him back in time, as I've stated before.
#43
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:26 PM
*sigh* He pulls it when he's a kid -.- I've said that several times... And a time loop is better than a paradox?
#44
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:28 PM
I'm talking about the second time, otherwise I'll have to learn again how to read.
#45
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:29 PM
BUt he only pulls it once... he gets sent back to right after he pulls the sword...
#46
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:33 PM
Okay, let me see if I understood, you suggest that Link is returned to a time after he pulls the Master Sword? So there are two Links at the same time?
#47
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:46 PM
No, why would there be? Link wouldn't be pulled into the Temple of Light the second he was sent back. He wouldn't need to be -.- That's the point...
*sigh*
Oh well, I drew a picture and everything, and still no one understands what I am talking about.
*sigh*
Oh well, I drew a picture and everything, and still no one understands what I am talking about.
#48
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:51 PM
Your theory is very interesting, but I think I had missundertood you, why would there not be two Links if Zelda sent Link to a period of time in which the Master Sword has been previously pulled by the "other Link (the one who you control in the game)"?
#49
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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:59 PM
In a sense, there is, I guess... but the Link that was sealed is gone already, never to return... He passed through the future and was sent back... It is the same person, but at different times... since they never met, there is not a paradox... In fact, even IF two Links were created, they would rejoin as the second story connected to the first.
The image I used is from Link's perspective... the ordinary viewer would not see the original story at all, he or she would simply see OoT starting, Link pulling the sword, putting it back, traveling to Termina, coming back, and Beating Ganny, then moving on... The confusiuon comes from the fact that there IS a whole story behind Link's adventures, which is the whole mystique with the game...
How ever, I will abandon this argument, as I was using it only to get my posts up... Thank you very much, I see your point of view and agree that it covers many facets that this presented theory couldn't possibly.. The problem is, there is always speculation in theories.
The image I used is from Link's perspective... the ordinary viewer would not see the original story at all, he or she would simply see OoT starting, Link pulling the sword, putting it back, traveling to Termina, coming back, and Beating Ganny, then moving on... The confusiuon comes from the fact that there IS a whole story behind Link's adventures, which is the whole mystique with the game...
How ever, I will abandon this argument, as I was using it only to get my posts up... Thank you very much, I see your point of view and agree that it covers many facets that this presented theory couldn't possibly.. The problem is, there is always speculation in theories.
