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Ocarina of Time time travel


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#31 Showsni

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 01:48 AM

How does time travel itself actually work? About the only way I can think of it working is for the motion of every single particle in the universe to be reversed, and played backwards until you got to the right time, then left to go forwards again. This would need an awful lot of energy, though, and would erase everyone's memories of the future. Another way it could work is for there to be, in reality, no time travel at all. Instead, the Temple of Time, or maybe Rauru, has the ability to foresee the future, and change Link's mind. Then, instead of him travelling though time, when he enters the temple his mind is changed so that it appears to him that he has travelled through time. The first time he enters it he falls asleep for a while, and the memoreies of waking up in 7 years are added to his brain but never actually happen. Then, after Zelda sends him back, the memories of his whole time in the future are added. Once he gets back from Termina, he enters the Temple again, and his memories from the whole past 7 years are erased and replaced with the memories he had just before he entered the Temple for the first time. Each time he travels in time, the corresponding child memories are added back to his mind. When Zelda sends him back, she returns all his memories, including those of his childhood, and he lives on as normal.

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 09:28 AM

Okay TerraEsperZ that all makes sense, though now I'm not quite sure how the predetermined timeline fits into OoT. I see that either of the other two would make sense (probably because both are discussed in depth quite often here) but not the predetermined one. I would be interested in hearing your complete explanation and timeline theory for OoT, it would certainly clear up a lot for me.

And Showsni, I don't particularly know that time travel has to be explained so in depth, all that we know is that it happens and that seems to be good enough. Even if there is an explanation to it I don't believe that yours is it. In your theory there is no time change, therefore Ganon never really gained any power in Hyrule, the physical changes to the landscape can't be accomplished simply by changing Link's mind and giving him new memories, and if that's the case all people of Hyrule would have had to have their minds screwed around with which is unlikely. The change in Link's physical attributes (growing into adulthood) also can't really be done using mind wiping, if this were the case link would still be his young self and unable to accomplish many of the feats which he does as an adult. That's all rambling, so if it doesn't make sense feel free to ask for further elaboration or hope that somebody else replies to your post.

#33 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 09:29 AM

(TerraEsperZ) Like I said, I believe that the Doors of Time are synchronized, with exactly seven years (or however long it was) between them. If Link goes back into the past after spending a week in the future, he'll arrive in the past a week after entering the first time. and if he then goes back to the future after yet another week, he'll arrive one week after he went back into the past.

In short:

Young Link -> Plus 7 years -> Adult Link
Adult Link + 1 week -> Minus 7 years -> Young Link + 1 week


That's true when Link is going back and forth...via the Master Sword and the Timple of Time. But when Zelda sends him back for the final time with the Ocarina, she sends him to his "original time"...she even states this here ya go:

(OOT) Link, give the Ocarina
  to me. As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it." Link looks
  at the Ocarina and puts it in Zelda's hand, then Zelda puts her other hand on
  top of Link's hand and looks at it with sad eyes. The Zelda says: " When peace
  returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say Good-bye... Now, go home,
  Link. Regain your lost time! Home... where you are supposed to be... the way
  you are supposed to be...


So that cancels out your lil equation in that particular aspect of time travel.

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Tri-Enforcer@Sep 23 2004, 09:29 AM
That's true when Link is going back and forth...via the Master Sword and the Timple of Time.  But when Zelda sends him back for the final time with the Ocarina, she sends him to his "original time"...she even states this here ya go:
So that cancels out your lil equation in that particular aspect of time travel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I never claimed that my theory was the correct one. I just feel it's a cheat to send him before anything happened, for all the reasons I already gave. I just wanted to explain how I saw things in my head, and I'm not that obsessed with litle details, which I sometimes choose to ignore if they feel ambiguous enough, such as OOT's ending.

I will explain my theory again later on for BlackHawkA100, but take it as my personal view of the event, not as a theory I wish to impose on anyone. So little contradictions are tolerable :)

#35 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:50 AM

Oh, excuse me Terra, I wasn't trying to say that I felt your theory or your thought was incorrect...I was only adding on to my speculation.... I look forward to hearing the rest of your theory!

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Tri-Enforcer@Sep 23 2004, 11:50 AM
Oh, excuse me Terra, I wasn't trying to say that I felt your theory or your thought was incorrect...I was only adding on to my speculation.... I look forward to hearing the rest of your theory!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No need for excuse, I just wanted to clarify things in case people started arguing about little details I chose to neglect.

I'm a big Transformers fans, and there has been so many different series and, heck, even different versions of the same series over the last 20 years that I got to a point where harmony took precedence over absolute canonicity. Mind you, I try to work in as much of the official material as possible, but if a little snippet of dialog or a relatively unimportant detail throws my whole theory out the window, it'll be the first thing I'll ignore or try to rationalize.

#37 Showsni

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 01:24 PM

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 23 2004, 03:28 PM
And Showsni, I don't particularly know that time travel has to be explained so in depth, all that we know is that it happens and that seems to be good enough.  Even if there is an explanation to it I don't believe that yours is it.  In your theory there is no time change, therefore Ganon never really gained any power in Hyrule, the physical changes to the landscape can't be accomplished simply by changing Link's mind and giving him new memories, and if that's the case all people of Hyrule would have had to have their minds screwed around with which is unlikely.  The change in Link's physical attributes (growing into adulthood) also can't really be done using mind wiping, if this were the case link would still be his young self and unable to accomplish many of the feats which he does as an adult.  That's all rambling, so if it doesn't make sense feel free to ask for further elaboration or hope that somebody else replies to your post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You misunderstand me. When young Link's memories are wiped by the Temple, they are replaced by the older Link's memories. When older Link's memories are removed, they are replaced by younger Link's. So, to Link, when he first wakes in the temple, it seems as if he has always been young, and only has those memories, in the adult world, when actually he has lived the entire time that he thinks he has been sleeping. The people, physical changes, etc. are caused by the natural moving of time over the seven years. If we played the game from Link's body's perspective, it would never travel through time - just fall to sleep for short moments in the temple. Link is just living his life in a different order to everyone else.

#38 Guest_Mjolnir106_*

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 09:34 PM

...Okay...I think I sort of get it...If we're talking about time travle in OoT then here is my cash in...first picutre in your mind a world where every second we're doing somthing even before and after seconds...Okay now we're always doing something It may not be the here and now but its us none the less...EX. 1 hr. ago I was at a Puderpuff game...I WAS, but someone who is me is there right now...and will write this in about an hour...sort of get it...okay well what happens is when link pulles out the sowrd he opens the portal 7 years in the future...now he becomes adult link...and since he is from the past he has skipped all 7 years and has no Idea what's going on.

How that...?

:huh:

#39 Reflectionist

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:56 PM

Good job skipping over what I said on the last page. It's not like I wanted an honest answer or anything for an honest question.

#40 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 09:38 AM

(Reflectionist) Good job skipping over what I said on the last page. It's not like I wanted an honest answer or anything for an honest question.


I'll give ya a lil' attention.

Originally posted by Reflectionist@Sep 22 2004, 12:11 PM
Okay, what I don't get is why ppl are overanalyzing the OoT, and coming to the conclusion that Link's Mind and Body seperate at some point. Okay, do I even have to stress how stupid this is? If in a multi Timeline, it wouldn't work, because it wouldn't need to work, for one. In a Single Timeline, it wouldn't matter. Time Travel is Time Travel. Meaning that a person (an entire person) goes forward and backwards in time. Come on now!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It works differently in OOT. OOT doesn't use the conventional time travel method we all came up knowing. And since it is fictional...the creators can play with time travel how they like. Plus, considering no one has time traveled before, so how would u know? If Link's whole body went to the past...we would've seen Adult Link running around in the past instead of child Link...and vice versa.

Unless u mean...the body/spirit travel together into the past...but the body reverses itself to its child state, while the spirit remembers everything and vice versa. That would be acceptable since that method irons out any BS about copies or doubles.

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 06:45 PM

:deadlink: Okay, Okay give me a second...if no one got what I said I'm going to repost it with better analigy so I'll see you then...

#42 Guest_Duracell_*

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 04:22 AM

For what it's worth, here are my thoughts:

Link's spirit is the only thing that time travels. I'm basing this on the simple fact that Link's body returns to its child form when you return to the past.

Link's spirit moves in and out of his body without leaving it unoccupied for anything longer than an instant. His body is occupied by several "different" spirits - that is, they're all "Link's spirit", but in the same way that a river is not the same river if you consider it a little later in time, so Link's spirit is not the same spirit if you consider it a little later in time.

Finally, I know you've all seen it before, but here's my diagram once again. The numbered points are the places where Link's spirit and his body separate.

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:06 AM

I've always thought there was something that didn't quite work with the whole "Link's spirit/essense/mind is the only thing that travels through time" theory and I think I've finally figured it out. If Link's body, and in theory, his actual spirit (as it apparently never leaves him for more than a moment) never leaves the temple of time how does Ganon ever get past him and into the Sacred Realm? Link would have seen in if that was the way it worked, and since there isn't anything in the game that signifies that Link ever saw Ganon entering the Sacred Realm...

#44 Zythe

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:16 AM

In OOT, it's done via a magical portal via which Link's soul travels. In real life, it's theoretical that when you approach the speed of light things start to slow down, when you reach light, everything stands still, so by that theory going past the speed of light will cause it to reverse. That's the Superman Theory and it has yet to be disproved by physicists.

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:23 AM

I can agree with the real world theory of traveling back in time, and it would make sense that it works the same way in OoT except with the aid of magic instead of science. The only hang up would be that Link returns to his original age every time he goes back. A magical portal which transports Link's soul could work, but one that transports his body and soul back would make more sense, reversing his age in the process, as far as going forward in time, Link would just sleep it out in the sacred realm.

#46 Zythe

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:42 AM

Are magic and science not the same thing, just different sides of alchemistry and physics?

#47 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:54 AM

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 25 2004, 10:23 AM
I can agree with the real world theory of traveling back in time, and it would make sense that it works the same way in OoT except with the aid of magic instead of science.  The only hang up would be that Link returns to his original age every time he goes back.  A magical portal which transports Link's soul could work, but one that transports his body and soul back would make more sense, reversing his age in the process, as far as going forward in time, Link would just sleep it out in the sacred realm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If you're wearing a read or blue tunic as adult Link...when u go into the past you're wearing a green tunic, as a child, upon arrival. That's a good indicator that only his soul is traveling back into time. Don't say, "oh he changed out of his adult-sized clothes before we can see it"...he's taking his hands off the MS as if he just came back instantly.

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:00 PM

Zythe, you make a good point and please excuse me for my mistake, I meant use of magic instead of technology.

And Tri-Enforcer you also make a good point and one that I'll need to look into. My only problem with only his soul traveling is what happens to his body? We know that it no longer appears in at least the child time when he travels, so it must go somewhere?

#49 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:27 PM

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 27 2004, 11:00 AM
Zythe, you make a good point and please excuse me for my mistake, I meant use of magic instead of technology.

And Tri-Enforcer you also make a good point and one that I'll need to look into.  My only problem with only his soul traveling is what happens to his body?  We know that it no longer appears in at least the child time when he travels, so it must go somewhere?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Initially when he woke up 7ys later, he didn't time travel, he just slept. He was kept in the chamber of sages for protection, and becuz he wasn't ready to be Hero of Time. Now that he is ready, Link can literally time travel without sleeping. So now his soul is going back and forth. What happens to adult Link's body? Simple, it stays in the future, in the Chamber of Sages, waiting for the soul to come back. So it is not moving around all over the place with no soul. Lets say if child Link is killed in the past or is killed before he ever time traveled...that adult body will no longer be there...and whatever changes Link made in the future will be undone.

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:31 PM

Okay, that works, but in that case wouldn't Link's child body stay within the chamber of the sages for protection as well?

#51 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:51 PM

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 27 2004, 11:31 AM
Okay, that works, but in that case wouldn't Link's child body stay within the chamber of the sages for protection as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well that's what I meant by initially...he touched the MS first as a child right? So right then and there he was preserved in the Chamber...his body aged and so did his soul. He awakened as an adult. Now that he is ready to be the Hero of Time, his soul can literally time travel back and forth in a flash--without waiting for his sleeping body. It's like this: It was 7am when u were first sealed as a child and now you're an adult. It is also 7am when you awaken as adult. You spend 7 minutes in the future and Adult Link decides to send his soul back in time at 7:07 am, while the adult body stays in the Chamber awaiting the return of the spirit. 7yrs in the past the spirit arrives in the child body at 7:07 am. That's becuz 7yrs ago at 7:07am you were still sleeping...only for 7 minutes though! So via the Temple of Time and the MS you don't go back any further back than the point of time you orginally time traveled at. That helps to cancel out any doubles...well actually since this is soul travelling there wouldn't be any physical copies or doubles, period. Keep in mind...at the very end Zelda has the ability to send you to your original time, cuz she's a sage and used the Ocarina on you. So she could've sent you back long before you touched the sword.

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:57 PM

Makes sense.

#53 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 01:48 PM

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 27 2004, 11:57 AM
Makes sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah no need to make it any more complicated than that...it's rather simple.

#54 Doopliss

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 04:59 PM

Well, the only mistake I found in your theory is that if adult Link's mind travels to the past it won't be able to take young Link's body because it's already hosting young Link's mind, so, according to my theory, when adult Link puts the Master Sword back to the Pedestal of Time, his body stays sleeping the Sacred Realm, while he is doing all what he needs to complete his quest with young Link's body, young Link's mind is sleeping in adult Link's body in the future, there's not any canon fact to disprove it because Rauru just said that Link slept in the Sacred Realm. I think this theory helps a lot to explain why Link doesn't know what he will do when he returns to the past when he travels to the past.

#55 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 05:32 PM

Originally posted by La Catrina@Sep 27 2004, 03:59 PM
Well, the only mistake I found in your theory is that if adult Link's mind travels to the past it won't be able to take young Link's body because it's already hosting young Link's mind, so, according to my theory, when adult Link puts the Master Sword back to the Pedestal of Time, his body stays sleeping the Sacred Realm, while he is doing all what he needs to complete his quest with young Link's body, young Link's mind is sleeping in adult Link's body in the future, there's not any canon fact to disprove it because Rauru just said that Link slept in the Sacred Realm. I think this theory helps a lot to explain why Link doesn't know what he will do when he returns to the past when he travels to the past.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Nice new look, Bulmaro...just in time for October.

What do you mean he wouldn't know what to do? If time travel were based on your theory, I probably wouldn't know what to do either if a had a mission in the past!!! Dude, I don't know where you get your ideas from...the 54th dimension or something.

Whenever Link travels to the past to solve certain puzzles, the reason why he even goes to certain dungeons such as the Spirit Temple is because of the clues he found in the future...if adult Link's memories don't travel back with him...child Link wouldn't know his next objectives. True he wouldn't know exactly how to figure out the puzzles, but he'd know the location of his next objective. Adult Link wouldn't even remember doing the Spirit Temple as a child if it wasn't for him sending his mind or soul back into the past to begin with.

If my soul goes into the past, you mean to tell me my past body won't have a soul, becuz my future soul is time traveling to inhabit it...so it's like we're exchanging souls? Bulmaro, if I can still call u that, that's irrelevant. The only thing I'm concerned about is that the spirit or mind or whatever are traveling back and forth through time (after the initial sleep of course). Either way that eliminates any BS about physical doubles or copies. As far this theory about swapping souls...I like mine better, but that me. But really it's not relevant..as long as we're clear that the body isn't traveling back and forth through time and that Link has memories when he goes into the past.

#56 Doopliss

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 05:52 PM

I ended in this theory, of minds swaping, because I don't think Link's mind can be sleeping in the Sacred Realm without a body. When Link travels from the future to the past, he takes young Link's body, so young Link's mind has to be sleeping in another body while adult Link does all what he does when he travels to the past. The most logical thing is that young Link's mind switches places with adult Link's body.

Actually, my new look's purpose is not precisely to be in time for October, we don't celebrate Halloween in my country. I just have alwyas thought that the Death is very artistic.




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