QUOTE(Koroks Rock)
...Except both the PS2 and the XBox get unthinkably hot inside, due to the way they've made the shells and cable organization. So fans are necessary.[/b][/quote]
And apparently in the new redesigned PS2, this is no longer an issue. Again, a good thing.
[quote]Originally posted by Koroks Rock+-->
And apparently in the new redesigned PS2, this is no longer an issue. Again, a good thing.
[quote]Originally posted by Koroks Rock+-->
QUOTE(Koroks Rock)
So fans are necessary [...] If I cut the power to my fans my computer the whole device runs slower, but it's not stabler, as you imply.[/b][/quote]
So wait... fans are necessary... but they aren't, because you can run without them just fine? So why, again, do you suggest that having no fans is a deficiency of this redesign?
But then, I also question the latter statement, above. Despite great advancements in detecting overheating, the vast majority of modern systems will simply power down under normal operating conditions when the heatsink fails, and before any automatic performance cap comes in to play.
And, of course, as you acknowledge yourself, a game console is no longer working reasonably if performance is compromised.
[quote]Originally posted by Koroks Rock
I have yet to see a heatsink that fails due to no fault to the user or manufacturer. One of them has to screw up bad or mess with what they shouldn't. [/quote]
Heatsink failure is one of the most common forms of hardware failure facing modern consumer PCs. The most common cause of heatsink failure is fan failure, and the results are often devastating. Neither the user nor the manufacturer need to "screw up bad" or "mess with what they shouldn't"; All consumer-level computer fans have a statistically high rate of failure because their long-term stability is severely impacted by even the tiniest of defects.
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But y'know what? I'll be brief. Had a nice, long post in mind... but it becomes somewhat more offensive than it needs to be.
Four and a half years old. That's how old the PS2 is. Matching that performance in a modern real-time embedded system is trivial even without force cooling. Live with it. Technology moves forward. We don't use vacuum tubes anymore. The vast minority of consumer electronics, be they embedded devices real-time systems, or otherwise, depend on any forced cooling, despite the fact that they're performing more and more processor-intensive tasks. Meanwhile, modern fanless computers, notably in the laptop market, easily outdo the PS2 in terms of raw horsepower... even without the benefit of being real-time systems!
Fans have a high error rate right out of the box. There's an entire industry devoted to compensating for bearing failures which are, in turn, reflected on the devices that utilize them. A cheap piece of plastic pressed up against a heat source with a poor bearing seal takes little to interfere with, and it's reflected in the failure rate of PSUs and heatsinks.
The character assumption, attributing my claims to me having a bad run-in with a failed heatsink? Thanks for that one. No, rather, it's my education and profession. Systems architecture courses devoted to hardware maintenance, focus on manufacturing trends and the idiosyncracies of consumer computer hardware. Experience repairing computers since my early highschool days through to the present, and my employment throughout university in companies that've put me in a prime position to observe the failure trends of machines stuffed with parts that are hardly cheap or irresponsibly manufactured. Guess what the most common hardware issues are?
On that note though, I've seen you pulling the same superiority-plus-character-assumption stuff in other topics, to those less inclined to reciprocate than myself. I expect our future conversations will go much faster, me feeling justified in dodging courtesy.
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its really a shame that this new pstwo console wont be compatible with the hdd. i hope they are gonna produce some newer hdd for this console. its really weird they sell it for same price since its not compatible. the hdd is really a must have and i dont see how someone can buy this pstwo if he knows about the hdd. buying a memory card can cost around 25$ for only 8 mb memory when the hdd is 40 gb and available for something like 95$ with final fantasy xi game which is a great deal. this hdd lets u copy your game on it so that it runs faster and lets you save games. i really dont understand how could they sell it for same price. the older version is not available at any local store here and its really cheap from sony not giving us the choice to buy this newer downgraded version for same price. i think they should have kept selling the older version too and sell the newer at a cheaper price to give the consumer the choice following his needs. i know that not everyone want to spend the extra for the hdd , but its not fun for the others who wanted the hdd. its also a bad thing for sony because how are they gonna sell their hdd if the older ps2 console is not available anymore and the newer one not compatible with it? i dont catch this. they made the ps2 compatible to ps1 , but the different ps2 arent compatible between them... really weird. this remembers me of the old sega genesis which they made a genesis 3 version which could not use the sega cd... but this genesis 3 was really affordable which made more sense compared to what sony does with the pstwo. thats what i call bad marketing. for the release date of this pstwo , i have been told it was gonna be available on october 19 at my local store.
#44
At last check, the only notable title actually requiring the HDD is Final Fantasy XI... which is also available for the PC.
Not to mention the PS2 HDD also requiring the network adapter, at last check... also noting that the new model comes with a built-in ethernet port... something developers are actually putting to reasonable use.
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So wait... fans are necessary... but they aren't, because you can run without them just fine? So why, again, do you suggest that having no fans is a deficiency of this redesign?
But then, I also question the latter statement, above. Despite great advancements in detecting overheating, the vast majority of modern systems will simply power down under normal operating conditions when the heatsink fails, and before any automatic performance cap comes in to play.
And, of course, as you acknowledge yourself, a game console is no longer working reasonably if performance is compromised.
[quote]Originally posted by Koroks Rock
I have yet to see a heatsink that fails due to no fault to the user or manufacturer. One of them has to screw up bad or mess with what they shouldn't. [/quote]
Heatsink failure is one of the most common forms of hardware failure facing modern consumer PCs. The most common cause of heatsink failure is fan failure, and the results are often devastating. Neither the user nor the manufacturer need to "screw up bad" or "mess with what they shouldn't"; All consumer-level computer fans have a statistically high rate of failure because their long-term stability is severely impacted by even the tiniest of defects.
#32
Koroks Rock
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:34 PM
I am suggesting the new unit won't run as well. i foresee a lot of repairs in sony's future, which will suck for all parites involved.
my basis is that they are not implementing a widespread, tried-and-true method, fans, which fail because any computer which is heavily used has at least three, often more. if you quadruple the quantity of a product the failure rate will be quadrupled. fans and heatsinks do not have the abysmal failure rate you seem to be obsessed with- they fail due to years of use like every other piece of computer equipment.
most likely you have expirienced this yourself and are reacting because it probably ruined your processor. so i can't blame you for distrusting heatsinks. but to not have one is an egregious, foolhardy oversight.
my basis is that they are not implementing a widespread, tried-and-true method, fans, which fail because any computer which is heavily used has at least three, often more. if you quadruple the quantity of a product the failure rate will be quadrupled. fans and heatsinks do not have the abysmal failure rate you seem to be obsessed with- they fail due to years of use like every other piece of computer equipment.
most likely you have expirienced this yourself and are reacting because it probably ruined your processor. so i can't blame you for distrusting heatsinks. but to not have one is an egregious, foolhardy oversight.
#33
chef
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:02 PM
*hugs his brick even though it has a fan*
What? It still works perfect for me.
What? It still works perfect for me.
#34
Koroks Rock
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:06 PM
let's hope it stays that way.
man, this arguement with dryth wore me out. let's drop the topic.
man, this arguement with dryth wore me out. let's drop the topic.
#35
Dryth
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:25 AM
Quote
A lot easier to turn your cheek when you get the last word - and insult me in the process. No thanks. You don't get to be the bigger man.Originally posted by Koroks Rock
man, this arguement with dryth wore me out. let's drop the topic.
But y'know what? I'll be brief. Had a nice, long post in mind... but it becomes somewhat more offensive than it needs to be.
Four and a half years old. That's how old the PS2 is. Matching that performance in a modern real-time embedded system is trivial even without force cooling. Live with it. Technology moves forward. We don't use vacuum tubes anymore. The vast minority of consumer electronics, be they embedded devices real-time systems, or otherwise, depend on any forced cooling, despite the fact that they're performing more and more processor-intensive tasks. Meanwhile, modern fanless computers, notably in the laptop market, easily outdo the PS2 in terms of raw horsepower... even without the benefit of being real-time systems!
Fans have a high error rate right out of the box. There's an entire industry devoted to compensating for bearing failures which are, in turn, reflected on the devices that utilize them. A cheap piece of plastic pressed up against a heat source with a poor bearing seal takes little to interfere with, and it's reflected in the failure rate of PSUs and heatsinks.
The character assumption, attributing my claims to me having a bad run-in with a failed heatsink? Thanks for that one. No, rather, it's my education and profession. Systems architecture courses devoted to hardware maintenance, focus on manufacturing trends and the idiosyncracies of consumer computer hardware. Experience repairing computers since my early highschool days through to the present, and my employment throughout university in companies that've put me in a prime position to observe the failure trends of machines stuffed with parts that are hardly cheap or irresponsibly manufactured. Guess what the most common hardware issues are?
On that note though, I've seen you pulling the same superiority-plus-character-assumption stuff in other topics, to those less inclined to reciprocate than myself. I expect our future conversations will go much faster, me feeling justified in dodging courtesy.
#36
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:38 PM
OK, i'll tell you what.
To avoid future disagreements, and the fact you have obviously won this one, you're right. I apologize, I'm not a profesional, just an amatuer, and you have me trumped.
Once again, I'm sorry.
edit/ Forgot to include this- i don't need to be a bigger man, I'm only 17. hardly old enough to be considered a man, bot even old enough to vote.
To avoid future disagreements, and the fact you have obviously won this one, you're right. I apologize, I'm not a profesional, just an amatuer, and you have me trumped.
Once again, I'm sorry.
edit/ Forgot to include this- i don't need to be a bigger man, I'm only 17. hardly old enough to be considered a man, bot even old enough to vote.
#37
Usagi
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:01 PM
This makes me think of the Redesigning of PSX aka PS1 (not the new PSX with 100gb ) I never understood the reasoning for it. No extra things or anything so why go and buy another one.
#38
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 01:32 AM
Heh I agree with the sub-comment: "It's still butt ugly." I know the rule says no console-bashing, so I won't bash it, but I will state that I don't like PS (1 or 2).
Although, I knew that after the release of PS2, they re-designed PS1 and made it a lot smaller. I never realized how small it was until today. I went into a games store and they had a whole bunch of consoles on display and one of them was the 'new' PS1. I was shocked at just how tiny it was!
Although, I knew that after the release of PS2, they re-designed PS1 and made it a lot smaller. I never realized how small it was until today. I went into a games store and they had a whole bunch of consoles on display and one of them was the 'new' PS1. I was shocked at just how tiny it was!
#39
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 08:23 AM
What bothers me is that it's not compatible with the hard drive, yet they're not even lowering the price. I realize they need to save money, but that's the reason why I'm rushing to get it before they switch over.
#40
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Posted 29 September 2004 - 03:41 PM
You know...I think its sexy. I wouldn't buy it, but its definitely sexy.
#41
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Posted 04 October 2004 - 02:55 PM
Ok, hello im new to the board, but any way i was wondering if this new design stop's the "Disc Read Error" syndrome, cause i have 2 Ps2's and was on my way to but another one but i seen that the redesign was coming out soon, )gamestop.com says 10/12) but if its not then i'll just buy the regular design.
FYI Only one of my PS2"s does the "DRE" the other just locks up in mid game.
FYI Only one of my PS2"s does the "DRE" the other just locks up in mid game.
#42
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Posted 04 October 2004 - 03:10 PM
Given how it's not out yet, none of us would really know. You should ask Sony itself, try the website or whatnot.
#43
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Posted 09 October 2004 - 03:27 PM
DarkJuno said
What bothers me is that it's not compatible with the hard drive, yet they're not even lowering the price. I realize they need to save money, but that's the reason why I'm rushing to get it before they switch over.
its really a shame that this new pstwo console wont be compatible with the hdd. i hope they are gonna produce some newer hdd for this console. its really weird they sell it for same price since its not compatible. the hdd is really a must have and i dont see how someone can buy this pstwo if he knows about the hdd. buying a memory card can cost around 25$ for only 8 mb memory when the hdd is 40 gb and available for something like 95$ with final fantasy xi game which is a great deal. this hdd lets u copy your game on it so that it runs faster and lets you save games. i really dont understand how could they sell it for same price. the older version is not available at any local store here and its really cheap from sony not giving us the choice to buy this newer downgraded version for same price. i think they should have kept selling the older version too and sell the newer at a cheaper price to give the consumer the choice following his needs. i know that not everyone want to spend the extra for the hdd , but its not fun for the others who wanted the hdd. its also a bad thing for sony because how are they gonna sell their hdd if the older ps2 console is not available anymore and the newer one not compatible with it? i dont catch this. they made the ps2 compatible to ps1 , but the different ps2 arent compatible between them... really weird. this remembers me of the old sega genesis which they made a genesis 3 version which could not use the sega cd... but this genesis 3 was really affordable which made more sense compared to what sony does with the pstwo. thats what i call bad marketing. for the release date of this pstwo , i have been told it was gonna be available on october 19 at my local store.
#44
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Posted 10 October 2004 - 10:54 PM
maniac said
Only a miniscule portion of PS2 games even recognize the PS2 HDD. Those games that don't can't use it to store memory card data, or even have games loaded onto the drive for faster access. Sony itself doesn't even encourage such usage; The HDD manual itself recommends that memory cards continue to be used for save game data, rather than the HDD itself.the hdd is really a must have and i dont see how someone can buy this pstwo if he knows about the hdd.
At last check, the only notable title actually requiring the HDD is Final Fantasy XI... which is also available for the PC.
Not to mention the PS2 HDD also requiring the network adapter, at last check... also noting that the new model comes with a built-in ethernet port... something developers are actually putting to reasonable use.
#45
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Posted 11 October 2004 - 09:56 AM
has anyone else noticed that the gc is exactly as wide as a standard pc harddrive is long? and the leftover space is just enough for the broadband adapter? it's very suspicious... i guess that nintendo left themselves an easy opening if people flat out refused to buy memory cards, but it never happened. just look at the 1019 card. ridiculous.
oh well. missed opportunites. maybe with the revolution.
oh well. missed opportunites. maybe with the revolution.
#46
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Posted 11 October 2004 - 02:23 PM
No, Nintendo always leaves random panels on the bottom of their systems, ever since even the NES for use in peripherals - they just either tend not to pan out or are in limited quantities in Japan.
Besides, refusing to buy a memory card is the most idiotic thing anyone can do for disk based systems - you may as well not even own the damn thing.
Besides, refusing to buy a memory card is the most idiotic thing anyone can do for disk based systems - you may as well not even own the damn thing.
#47
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Posted 11 October 2004 - 04:00 PM
The easier option would have been the SD card reader... which, if I recall correctly, has been "announced" three times since the Gamecube itself was announced. The 1019 seemed to displace it on Nintendo's own accessories page.
Few companies would want to offer a low-cost alternative to saving game data. Sony made a killing with the Playstation through tiny memory cards. Nintendo's probably made a nice profit off them too, between small initial N64 and Gamecube memory cards (the former arguably completely unnecessary, if not for developers forcing people to use them). It's been claimed that the "XBox 2" won't have a hard drive; Perhaps Microsoft's own maneuver to profit from small memory units, now that they have their foot in the market.
Few companies would want to offer a low-cost alternative to saving game data. Sony made a killing with the Playstation through tiny memory cards. Nintendo's probably made a nice profit off them too, between small initial N64 and Gamecube memory cards (the former arguably completely unnecessary, if not for developers forcing people to use them). It's been claimed that the "XBox 2" won't have a hard drive; Perhaps Microsoft's own maneuver to profit from small memory units, now that they have their foot in the market.
