50 replies to this topic

[Custommagnum]

Originally posted by arunma @ Sep 20 2004@ 08:23 PM

But often times, police force people to make confessions.

That's why I also said they should show no remorse. A jury can tell if a guy is remoseful or not. If the guy really values his life, he'll protest it.

So you only want the death penalty to be used if the killer shows no remorse and cofesses.

...So we'll never have the death penalty then.

[GraniteJJ]

Wait...Tanaka Bros...you're a Christian agreeing with me that Christians are arrogant when they judge people...

Um...

Where is the real TanakaBros.!!?

[SteveT]

Ok, when a basketball player fouls another player, is it unGodly judging to tell him that he broke a rule?

What you are referring to is judging whether someone or not follows God's rules and by extension, whether or not the person is good.

The rules of society are not God's rules. In fact, they're much more like the rules of a basketball game. If you want to play the "living in the US with the other people" game, you have to follow the rules. It's not the type of judging you're referring to.

Smaller example. You see a woman pocket some lipstick while you're at the store. You say, "Excuse me ma'am, but I believe you're shoplifting." You complain to the manager, she is forced to return the lipstick and is subsequently kicked out of the store.

She broke the rules of the store (and the country) and she got removed from teh store. Are you judging whether or not she's a good person? No. You're determining whether or not she obeyed the law.

If you say, "Excuse me, ma'am, but you just stole some lipstick and theives go to Hell and I hate you," then you're judging her worth as a person.

Do you see the difference?

Now, with the death penalty. The rules of society (laws) prohibit certain things. The less they want you to do something, the harsher the punishment. For the worst offenses, you get the worst punishment: permanant removal from human society (ie death--you get kicked out of the proverbial score and expelled from the proverbial team). It's not a question of whether or not the person is good, because "good" is a moral term. The question is whether or not that person presents a clear danger to the rights and lives of others and can be expected to continue ignoring the rules of the game. This can be proven objectively, and therefore cannot be considered a moral judgement.

Just as it is not arrogant to want a player kicked off the team because he has a history of breaking the most serious rules, it is not arrogant to, well, kick a person out of the game of life because he has a history of breaking the most serious rules.

[GraniteJJ]

Um...I'm not saying its arrogant to judge people based on the rules.

But as ungodly people, you can't possibly fathom what God will decide. The reason being that he knows all, including what his plans are for you and how you will be judged.

You can judge divinely. Only the divine can do that.

[GraniteJJ]

Originally posted by TanakaBros06@Sep 22 2004, 09:58 PM
Ha ha.   This is indeed him. I agree with you that anyone (Christians included) is rather arrogant if they think that they have the right to take another's life. That's God's right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good. I have someone on my side. I'm not crazy!




And its strange how I am advocating this belief with such conviction, and yet I don't believe in God. Well, just one of those days I guess.

[Alakhriveion]

Ok, when a basketball player fouls another player, is it unGodly judging to tell him that he broke a rule?

Of course it isn't. It's just not something Jesus would have done.

[GraniteJJ]

Jesus couldn't play basketball in a robe and sandals...don't be stupid TanakaBros.

[Flint]

Originally posted by GraniteJJ@Sep 19 2004, 07:33 PM
So you are agreeing with me that Christians, when judging someone for the death sentence, are being especially arrogant on account of the fact that only God can judge people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't say they're being "arrogant". Just hypocritical.

[Flint]

Jesus died 1,971 years ago? o.o

[GraniteJJ]

Originally posted by TanakaBros06@Sep 22 2004, 10:14 PM
Jesus can do anything He wants. Don't be stupid, Granite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it'd be quite a show watching him play in a robe. How would he bounce it between his legs?

The robe would be in the way...and would he approve of Gatorade, or would he turn it into wine?

[SteveT]

He'd probably be the best basketball player ever. He spent a lot of time telling the Pharisees they completely missed the point of God's rules, I might add.

Um...I'm not saying its arrogant to judge people based on the rules.

But as ungodly people, you can't possibly fathom what God will decide. The reason being that he knows all, including what his plans are for you and how you will be judged.

You can judge divinely. Only the divine can do that.

I fully agree. The death sentence isn't such a situation, or at least not from a strictly state perspective.

Ha ha.  This is indeed him. I agree with you that anyone (Christians included) is rather arrogant if they think that they have the right to take another's life. That's God's right.

Again, if you can't play by the rules, you can't be on the team. Is putting someone in jail for life really any better than the death sentence? From the perspective of everyone who's not in jail, you are more or less killing that person, effectively.

[Alakhriveion]

Actually, Jesus was an NBA star for several years. You need to read The Onion more often.

[Alakhriveion]

How about we use the Talmudic standard for administering the death penalty? There need to be either twelve of six witnesses (Which was it? I can't rememeber), all with IDENTICAL stories about what happened and who did it, there needs to be physical evidence, and then a trial.

[SteveT]

^Jewish laws make a lot of sense a lot of the time.

[SteveT]

If you want to convince a secular person of a stance on a secular issue, you have to argue from a secular standpoint. Otherwise he won't listen to you and no progress will be made.

After that realization, I've trained myself to argue from one point of a veiw at a time.