94 replies to this topic

[Dai Grepher]

Sorry, you'll have to give a chapter as well. I looked through both books and saw nothing similar to what you posted.

[Zythe]

The code is taken from the original Hebrew of the Torah, and other parts of the Tanakh. As far as I know, no one has searched the New Testament for a code.

They did the King James version and found a massive web of over two hundred words relating to Diana's car accident. Thing's from "Diana", "Dodi", "Car Crash", "Paris" etc. etc. I saved a picture of it, it was really quite amazing.

[Nevermind]

Yeah did you look at the pattern too?


What's that? WHAT pattern, did you say??

Yeah, exactly, what pattern. It's completely random. Maybe if the chapters that contained those words had some relation to the events....well...a little more plausible, but random words in random chapters in random books of the Bible just really don't convince me. It's just special to them because it's the Bible.
Another bunch of guys used the same code on Vanilla Ice's 'Ice Ice Baby' lyrics and he predicted the fall of the Twin Towers.

[Alakhriveion]

Sorry, you'll have to give a chapter as well. I looked through both books and saw nothing similar to what you posted.

Exodus 32:26-29

I'll get the one on slaves later, I have it at home. Which is where I'm not.

[SOAP]

Yeah did you look at the pattern too?


What's that? WHAT pattern, did you say??

Yeah, exactly, what pattern. It's completely random. Maybe if the chapters that contained those words had some relation to the events....well...a little more plausible, but random words in random chapters in random books of the Bible just really don't convince me. It's just special to them because it's the Bible.
Another bunch of guys used the same code on Vanilla Ice's 'Ice Ice Baby' lyrics and he predicted the fall of the Twin Towers.

That's what I'm saying. You can take any group of words and place them in any certian way to get the results you want. Well at least that's better than ignoring parts of the Bible and making stuff up altogether.

[arunma]

The problem is, people assume that the Bible code is true because the Bible itself is divinely inspired. So is Vanilla Ice inspired too?

I have to admit, "Go Ninja, Go!" from Ninja Turtles II was pretty cool.

[SOAP]

So is Vanilla Ice inspired too?

Oh God I hope not!

The Bible may be divinely inspired but the intrepretations are purely manmade. And these Bible Codes are an intrepretation of an intrepretation which has nothing to do with the original Word of God at all.

As for Slavery in the Bible I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here and provide some scriptures to read:

Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
Exodus 21:2-6 NLT
Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
Exodus 21:20-21 NAB
Ephesians 6:5 NLT
1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Luke 12:47-48 NLT

Oh, and this one's for arunma:

Matthew 5:18-19

So, yeah, Jesus says we can't eat pork or shave. Basically.

[Dai Grepher]

Exodus 32:25-35
25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)
26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord’s side? Let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
29 For Moses had said, Consecrate yourselves to day to the Lord, even every man upon his son, and upon his brother; that he my bestow upon you a blessing this day.
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
35 And the Lord plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

Dai Grepher: The killing of these people was in response to them making a golden calf for them to worship instead of God, who led them out of Egypt.
Killing the sinner is how a land or a society was cleansed from that sin in the time before Jesus died for the sins of men. Most of the people in the camp didn’t know if they should kill their own or not, so they waited for Moses to tell them what God wanted.
Moses found out that they were doing this from God, and when God told him that he would basically vaporize them from the face of the Earth, Moses pleaded that God not do it, but allow the sons of Abraham, Isaac, and the servants of Israel to spread across the land as he had promised. So God allowed Moses to return to the whole of the people.

When Moses returned he gathered up those who stood for God. Then he instructed them to kill those that chose to worship the calf. Many of these people were killed, but some chose to follow God again, which is why Moses could then say to the remaining heathens that they have sinned a great sin, and would speak to God about atonement.

Then, God says a great thing about this dilemma. He says that he will not blot Moses out of his book, because he only blots out those that sin against him. Meaning, Moses was let go without judgment to lead the people to the land which was promised to them because Moses had done no wrong.
As for the remaining people that did sin against God, he inflicted a plague upon them, which I assume only caused them discomfort or mild anguish as punishment, seeing as how killing them would go against what he said earlier to Moses.

Having another God before the one true God was, and still is, a great sin. This is why God had Moses tell the people that still stood for God to kill those that did not.
Another reason for this was because this group of people would be counter productive in their search for the Promised Land, and they would likely fight those that did worship God.

So these verses don't say that God had them kill everyone, leaving none alive. A verse that is taken out of context can be implied to mean many different things. Also the reason for killing those people was a very good one. It also appears that you got the verse wrong to begin with, as it never says that they were to leave none alive. The following verses prove this indefinitely.

I look forward to talking with you more about this and other issues concerning the word of God.

[arunma]

Oh, and this one's for arunma:

Matthew 5:18-19

So, yeah, Jesus says we can't eat pork or shave. Basically.

If there was any confusion about the context of this verse, the Lord Jesus makes it clear in Mark 7:18-19:

"'Are you so dull?' he asked. 'Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.' (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean.')"

In Acts 15:17-21, Saint James also speaks on the issue. He says "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

So why, then, does Jesus say that the Law must be obeyed? Well first of all, the Law only applies to Israel, because Moses spoke only to Israel. Secondly, the Law is very important because it forshadows the New Covenant. That is why to this day, it is part of the Christian Scriptures. But in the Law, there is a clear distinction between the moral laws and the laws that were meant to keep Israel culturally distinctive. The parts about pork and growing a beard fell into the latter category.

[Alakhriveion]

So these verses don't say that God had them kill everyone, leaving none alive. A verse that is taken out of context can be implied to mean many different things. Also the reason for killing those people was a very good one. It also appears that you got the verse wrong to begin with, as it never says that they were to leave none alive. The following verses prove this indefinitely.

Yes, my initial paraphrase was incorrect. However... this still makes killing a godly act. Now, if you want to keep 'Old Testament' prohibitions against things like Homosexuality, you need to take the good with the bad. But, um, one post up, and Arun shows why you don't need to have either.

[SOAP]

I can't believe I forgot about Mark. I got into a big fight with a Jewish girl once about that line. In the third grade. And the teacher made us sit in separate corners of the room.

If killing can be justified by God (which is way worse than boinking someone of the same gender) then why can't gay relations in today's world where gay sex is no longer neccessarily associated with idoltry, lust, and rape? In fact, I think I remember a tribe of lesbians backed up by God somewheres in the bible. I think it was the Tribe of Ruth or something.

[Alakhriveion]

I doubt it. Gay Sex still isn't kosher, but, of course, neither are Skittles, delicious bacon, and shrimp, and...

[arunma]

If killing can be justified by God (which is way worse than boinking someone of the same gender) then why can't gay relations in today's world where gay sex is no longer neccessarily associated with idoltry, lust, and rape? In fact, I think I remember a tribe of lesbians backed up by God somewheres in the bible. I think it was the Tribe of Ruth or something.

There are also New Testament prohibitions against homosexuality...sort of. Romans 1:27 is about lesbian sex. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says that homosexual offenders will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Greek word normally translated "homosexual offenders" in actuality translates to "sodomites." What's a sodomite? Heck if I know. In the Bible, Sodom is famous because the Sodomites tried to have sex with two angels whom they thought were men. Your guess is as good as mine.

Perhaps the best argument against homosexual marriage is merely that it isn't prescribed in the Bible. The Bible always assumes that marriage exists between one man and one women (actually, the Old Testament allowed polygamy; the New Testament does not). That's why the church doesn't do gay marriages.

I doubt it. Gay Sex still isn't kosher, but, of course, neither are Skittles, delicious bacon, and shrimp, and...

I knew about bacon and shrimp, but Skittles?

[SOAP]

The Sodomites didn't just wanted to have sex with the angels. They wanted to rape them. Gay rape is a whole lot different than having a same sex love relationship and the two hardly have anything to do with the other. For example, gay rape is frequent in prisons and in some cases of torture. But these people who participate in such activities aren't always gay and the reasons behind their actions aren't out of love or even lust. They're out of anger, hatred, and declaring dominance over another male. That kind of gay sex is bad and I can see why the Bible is against that kind of homosexaulity. But I haven't found anything in the bible that fits the description of gay relationships as they are today (except that they're not kosher as Alak pointed out). I don't think it even existed back then. Back then, homosexuality was more of a ritual thing that otherwise heterosexual men did.

[Alakhriveion]

I knew about bacon and shrimp, but Skittles?

Skittles and Jell-O are made from Swine Hoofs.

In the Bible, Sodom is famous because the Sodomites tried to have sex with two angels whom they thought were men.

They also raped Lot's daughter- after Lot gave them to the mob after denying them the angels. Why was he spared, again? Ah, never mind.

[SOAP]

He was spared so he can be raped by his own daughters later on. An ironic punishment for a father who gave up his own virgin daughters to a mob of angry men.

[Alakhriveion]

Oh yes, that. Plus wern't the children he had with his kids the ancestors of David, and therefore Jesus? I'm not bashing, but God's bipolar.

[SOAP]

Oh yes, that. Plus wern't the children he had with his kids the ancestors of David, and therefore Jesus? I'm not bashing, but God's bipolar.

Well, at least that's something I'd have in common with the divine Creator.

[Dai Grepher]

Yes, my initial paraphrase was incorrect. However... this still makes killing a godly act. Now, if you want to keep 'Old Testament' prohibitions against things like Homosexuality, you need to take the good with the bad. But, um, one post up, and Arun shows why you don't need to have either.

Dai Grepher: Killing those who have sinned is a Godly act, especially in that case. Noramlly, a jury would tetermine death for someone who has sinned, then when that one is killed he is buried before the sun sets. That cleanses the land of the sin.
However, when Jesus came to die for the sins of men, he created a way to do away with that method of cleansing. Now, sins are forgiven by Jesus Christ. However, the old laws were not abolished just because a new and better way was made. The death penalty is not considered unlawful in God's eyes, if it is carried out correctly.

If killing can be justified by God (which is way worse than boinking someone of the same gender) then why can't gay relations in today's world where gay sex is no longer neccessarily associated with idoltry, lust, and rape? In fact, I think I remember a tribe of lesbians backed up by God somewheres in the bible. I think it was the Tribe of Ruth or something.

Dai Grepher: Homosexuality is as great a sin as murder to God. However, not all killing is considered murder to God. After all, God is the giver and taker of life. If his will is for someone to die, then it is just, no matter who he has carry out that killing.

I doubt it. Gay Sex still isn't kosher, but, of course, neither are Skittles, delicious bacon, and shrimp, and...

Dai Grepher: Those rules were for the Hebrew, not the Gentile. Also, Jesus fulfilled that law when he said it was fine to eat those things. Jewish people do not think it is kosher because they do not believe in the New Testiment.

There are also New Testament prohibitions against homosexuality...sort of. Romans 1:27 is about lesbian sex. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says that homosexual offenders will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Greek word normally translated "homosexual offenders" in actuality translates to "sodomites." What's a sodomite? Heck if I know. In the Bible, Sodom is famous because the Sodomites tried to have sex with two angels whom they thought were men. Your guess is as good as mine.

Dai Grepher: Actually, Romans 1 covers the entire issue. From the full abomination to unnatural affections.

The Sodomites didn't just wanted to have sex with the angels. They wanted to rape them. Gay rape is a whole lot different than having a same sex love relationship and the two hardly have anything to do with the other.
For example, gay rape is frequent in prisons and in some cases of torture. But these people who participate in such activities aren't always gay and the reasons behind their actions aren't out of love or even lust. They're out of anger, hatred, and declaring dominance over another male. That kind of gay sex is bad and I can see why the Bible is against that kind of homosexaulity.

Dai Grepher: That may be, but God didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorra because of that incident. Remember that he was going to destroy them because of what they were doing, which was homosexual acts, other lustful sins, and even bestiality. God only allowed it to survive as long as it did because of the very few moral people that lived there, which turned out to be 1 person.

But I haven't found anything in the bible that fits the description of gay relationships as they are today (except that they're not kosher as Alak pointed out). I don't think it even existed back then. Back then, homosexuality was more of a ritual thing that otherwise heterosexual men did.

Dai Grepher: The Bible says that it is an abomination to God, and those that partake in it will surly be put to death. Romans also condemns unnatural affections, which even covers hand holding.

They also raped Lot's daughter- after Lot gave them to the mob after denying them the angels. Why was he spared, again? Ah, never mind.

Dai Grepher: He was spared because he was a good man. He sacrificed himself and his family for the strangers. That sacrifice showed his compassion for the innocent. Also, I don’t think that the mob raped the daughters, because they wanted the men. This also proves that rape was not the desire of the mob.

He was spared so he can be raped by his own daughters later on. An ironic punishment for a father who gave up his own virgin daughters to a mob of angry men.

Dai Grepher: That was an unfortunate occurrence. He was spared because he was a good man, but that doesn’t mean his family was good. His wife looked back at all that she had to leave behind in a town that caused her family nothing but grief. Her greed and covetousness showed her sin, which is why God did not spare her either.

[Alakhriveion]

The death penalty is not considered unlawful in God's eyes, if it is carried out correctly.

Four words: Thou shalt not kill. I don't see "Thu shalt not kill, unless they did something reall bad, in which case you can, or if they broke a law, unless they're insance, oh and also if they make Me angry- unless that means YOU break a law, in which case you shouldn't do it, unless it prevents more killing, unless that's also in My name..." Nuh-uh. "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

Those rules were for the Hebrew, not the Gentile. Also, Jesus fulfilled that law when he said it was fine to eat those things. Jewish people do not think it is kosher because they do not believe in the New Testiment.

That law's just a few pages away from the gay sex laws. They both fall under that catagory.

Dai Grepher: He was spared because he was a good man. He sacrificed himself and his family for the strangers. That sacrifice showed his compassion for the innocent. Also, I don’t think that the mob raped the daughters, because they wanted the men. This also proves that rape was not the desire of the mob.

They didn't rape them because God adjusted the situation, though. And he didn't sacrifice himself, just his daughters. They were also innocent, and, not being god, unable to as effectively defend themselves. He sounds like a real jackass to me.

If anyone still believes in a Benevolent god, by the way, I suggest you look up the "Brady Bunch Variety Hour."

[SOAP]

Dai Grepher: Killing those who have sinned is a Godly act, especially in that case. Noramlly, a jury would tetermine death for someone who has sinned, then when that one is killed he is buried before the sun sets. That cleanses the land of the sin.
However, when Jesus came to die for the sins of men, he created a way to do away with that method of cleansing. Now, sins are forgiven by Jesus Christ. However, the old laws were not abolished just because a new and better way was made. The death penalty is not considered unlawful in God's eyes, if it is carried out correctly.

Dai Grepher: Homosexuality is as great a sin as murder to God. However, not all killing is considered murder to God. After all, God is the giver and taker of life. If his will is for someone to die, then it is just, no matter who he has carry out that killing.

Like Alak said: "Thou Shall Not Kill." Not "Thou shall not murder" or "Thou shall not kill unless to cleanse your people of impuritities or in the honor of my holy name."

Dai Grepher: Actually, Romans 1 covers the entire issue. From the full abomination to unnatur al affections.

Dai Grepher: The Bible says that it is an abomination to God, and those that partake in it will surly be put to death. Romans also condemns unnatural affections, which even covers hand holding.

I'd like to see some quotes because the only thing I've read in chapter one seems to describe lustful gay sex.

Dai Grepher: That may be, but God didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorra because of that incident. Remember that he was going to destroy them because of what they were doing, which was homosexual acts, other lustful sins, and even bestiality. God only allowed it to survive as long as it did because of the very few moral people that lived there, which turned out to be 1 person.

And who, praytell, was that?

Dai Grepher: He was spared because he was a good man. He sacrificed himself and his family for the strangers. That sacrifice showed his compassion for the innocent. Also, I don’t think that the mob raped the daughters, because they wanted the men. This also proves that rape was not the desire of the mob.

Dai Grepher: That was an unfortunate occurrence. He was spared because he was a good man, but that doesn’t mean his family was good. His wife looked back at all that she had to leave behind in a town that caused her family nothing but grief. Her greed and covetousness showed her sin, which is why God did not spare her either.

Uh yeah, he basically gave up his virgin duaghters to a bunch of angry, horny men. Yeah, he's father-of-year alright. Whether they wanted to rape the girls is irrelivant. He was willing to give up his own children to a bunch of people fuck anything withing with a hole in it. No one in that city was good. Not even Lot.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Dai Grepher: Those rules were for the Hebrew, not the Gentile. Also, Jesus fulfilled that law when he said it was fine to eat those things. Jewish people do not think it is kosher because they do not believe in the New Testiment.

Actually, Jesus said no such thing. It was only Paul who said that was okay and he claimed to have more authority than the Disciples, because he saw Jesus appear to him on the Road to Damascus. (He claimed to have fallen off his donkey or horse after he saw Jesus, but I doubt it and think he actually fell off before seeing Jesus).

Dai Grepher: That may be, but God didn't destroy Sodom and Gomorra because of that incident. Remember that he was going to destroy them because of what they were doing, which was homosexual acts, other lustful sins, and even bestiality. God only allowed it to survive as long as it did because of the very few moral people that lived there, which turned out to be 1 person.

Actually, some researcher whose book I read suggested the earlier versions didn't really mention sexual sins much when it came to the account of Sodom and Gomorra, rather that God destroyed those cities because they didn't welcome people properly or something like that.

I just can't remember whether it was published in the bok, "The Medieval Underworld" by Andrew McCall or "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman.

[arunma]

Sorry Wolf, but none of what you said about Paul has a Biblical basis.

Actually, Jesus said no such thing.

Oh yeah? Mark 7:19, "For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body. In saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean.'"

It was only Paul who said that was okay and he claimed to have more authority than the Disciples

No he didn't. 1 Corinthians 15:9, "For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

If you think that Paul isn't a true apostle, consider two facts. First of all, the same person who wrote Luke wrote Acts, which confirms Paul's apostleship. Why do you believe Luke, but not Acts? Or do you simply deny them both? Either way, most people don't like Paul because the Scriptures about Jesus are written in the form of a story, while the Scriptures about Paul are written in the form of letters. Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but that is a most foolish reason.

Secondly, Paul's letters were written before the Gospels. It's not an intelligent decision to reject hte epistles but accept the Gospels. Again, maybe it's just that people like reading stories better than letters.

Third, Saint Peter refers to Paul's letters as Scripture. See 2 Peter 3:16. Of course, as long as you're throwing Luke and Acts out of the Bible, you could throw away 2 Peter as well, if you think it wasn't really written by Peter. But at this point, you wouldn't be arguing Christianity anymore, but rather your own made-up religion.

Finally, every major church father and council, including the heretics, considered Paul an apostle of Jesus. To put it bluntly: you can't call yourself a Christian if you reject the apostleship of Paul. Jesus spoke through Paul, just as he did through the other apostles. If you reject Paul, you are rejecting Jesus. For those of you who don't believe in Biblical inspiration, Paul probably represents Jesus better than the Gospels do, because his epistles are older. Again, people sometimes think the Gospels are more reliable by virtue of being written in the form of a story. And that is foolishness.

[SOAP]

I think ignoring parts of the Bible is just as bad as taking it too literally. But then again I'm gay and I'm also guilty of doing both extremes so that means crap coming from me.

[arunma]

I think ignoring parts of the Bible is just as bad as taking it too literally. But then again I'm gay and I'm also guilty of doing both extremes so that means crap coming from me.

No offense to anyone else, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll take a gay Christian over a straight nonbeliever any day.

[SOAP]

Oh I'm flattered but seeing as I'm both gay and a nonbeliever that probably leaves me in the hot water as far as you're concerned.

[arunma]

Oh I'm flattered but seeing as I'm both gay and a nonbeliever that probably leaves me in the hot water as far as you're concerned.

Oh dear...yeah, "hot water" would probably be a rather appropriate phrase.

[SOAP]

Well if it's any consolation I'm agnostic, not athiest. I believe there is a god. But I'm not so sure he's as kind and benolovent as people say he is.

[Zythe]

Deism, maybe. That's what I'm leaning towards nowadays. God doesn't care, but he does exist... maybe...