55 replies to this topic

[FDL]

I think the Zora tribe did become the Rito tribe, but if they didn't I think they evolved from another OoT/MM race(some Hylians or Gerudo).

[Hana-Nezumi]

they evolved just like the koroks did, but for what reason i don't know. the place is nothing but water, so it would be a perfect environment for the zoras. maybe they were freshwater zoras? the symbol is clearly based off the zora sapphire. (i've always thought it looked like the symbol for biohazard @.@)

[FDL]

Well, the creators of TWW seem to be very confused as to how habitable the Great Sea itself is. Ganon says at the end of the game that the Great Sea "yields no fish to catch" and yet Orca is supposedly a fisherman. I'm assuming if the former is true then the Zora's wouldn't be able to live in the Great Sea either.

[coinilius]

Also, the Great Sea supports crabs and crawfish, so it can support some aquatic life. Plus barnacles.

[Vic Vicious]

Another reason for the Rito not being evolved Zoras is the Rito guy at the mail sorting game in WW. His face looks exactly like the running man a.k.a. the postman (but darker skinned and with a beak) and at one point says that an ancester of his was a postman.

Besides the Rito's faces were pretty human-like, while the Zoras had a simplier, plainier design...

And if IIRC, in the Oracle games they say that the nice OoT/MM Zoras were the Sea Zoras, and the old ugly ones were the River Zoras or something along those lines, so they didn't have any reason to not live in the sea.

But, who knows, maybe it's a mix of both options and there are actual zoras swimming in the Great Sea somewhere, besides the Ritos.

[garsh]

If I'm not mistaken there was actually dialog in the game that mentioned it. It was something about a race that once swam the seas growing wings or something. I could be totally wrong, but I would swear someone like Jabu, King of Red Lions or the Deku Tree said something just like that.

I'd be glad to see if someone could verify or disprove that, my memory is sketchy on this.

And Fierce Deity Link, it's possible Orca was a fisherman before the flood. He's old. How long ago was the flood?

[garsh]

Wow, what's that say about Orca? I mean he's wrinkled and all, but he must be older than Casey Kasem.

[Neon Z]

Well, the creators of TWW seem to be very confused as to how habitable the Great Sea itself is. Ganon says at the end of the game that the Great Sea "yields no fish to catch" and yet Orca is supposedly a fisherman. I'm assuming if the former is true then the Zora's wouldn't be able to live in the Great Sea either.

There's also another person who mentions that there's no fish in the Great Sea, but I can't remember who was that one... Anyway, look at the bones in Orca's room, they look to be from those shark-like monsters. Maybe, he catches those things, which would also explain why he'd not only a fisherman, but also a warrior.

[Fatgoron]

The great sea is habitable enough to support those gryorg things, octorocks, to a lesser extent pea-hats, and those fishmen things that give you maps.

I don't buy the whole Zora sapphire thing. It's the spiritual stone of water, and the Zora nicknamed it, I don't see what particular link it has to the Zora people, save for them being charged with guarding it.
Nayru's pearl in WW bears the same symbol, while the Rito guard Din's pearl and Nayru's pearl is kept watch over by Jabun.

I think it is far more likely that each of the spiritual stones is representative of one of the goddesses and/or the qualities they embody, after all the child era of OoT was based on the three symbols of virtue formula that was set in place during aLttP.

One of the Rito figurines reveals one of them to be descended from a mail man. The only mailman in any previous Zelda game was the one from MM, which I think makes the implications clear, that being the Rito having crossbred in the past, which explains the Medli/Laruto bloodline connection.

If I'm not mistaken there was actually dialog in the game that mentioned it. It was something about a race that once swam the seas growing wings or something. I could be totally wrong, but I would swear someone like Jabu, King of Red Lions or the Deku Tree said something just like that.

Not that I remember, and I can't find anything about it on google. There was a point at which Medli revealed that the Rito used the grappling hook before they evolved wings, and that they require a scale from Valoo in order to reach complete maturity and gain fully developed wings.

[Husse]

2. I have read one rumour that the flood that the Gods made drove away the Zora to Calatia (the land of Zelda II, if I remember rightly). Apparently, the Rito flew in from somehwere distant about 200 years after OoT happened.

I'm not sure rumours can be accepted as proof.

Another thing: the Gods may have "changed" some to live on the land, remember? The sea is forbidden for a reason. The only unchanged race was the Gorons, (because they didn't even move, they just watched as people invaded their mountains and the water get higher,) and, surprise, surprise, there's only three left. Maybe every race changed to adapt to the winds, not the sea.

That and the Kokiri became Koroks. I think, being that there's a connection between the races, it's plausible that the Ritos are the Zoras. They behave much the same, in any case. I think they are.

[Showsni]

Calatia (the land of Zelda II, if I remember rightly).

Not quite - Zelda II takes place in Hyrule. Calatia is, according to the comic book, where the Link from AoL and LoZ came from before travelling to Hyrule.

The Rito may well be the Zora - it's a magical game, after all. Though after OoT, there's no evidence that any Zora besides the royal family are even alive, I don't think... I shouldn't think that the game involves any interbreeding between species. That's an oxymoron in itself, isn't it?

[Vazor]

I've always assumed that the Ritos were a cross-breed of the Zoras and the Gorons (You may say that there are Gorons also in WW, but then again we still see Zoras in later games so only some of them may have evolved).
Think about it: The Ritos live on what is obviously the remnants of Death Mountain, where the Gorons lived near. Also, they hold the Din's pearl, which has the same symbol as (and likely is) the Goron's Ruby. Also, Gorons would be more likely to develop some sort of grappling hook, as they have no way to move upwards other than climbing, and the Zoras could easily swim away.
There is a lot of connection of the Ritos with the Zoras and Gorons, so I think it's more likely that some Zoras and Gorons interbred into the Ritos while the others moved away.

[Showsni]

How can Zoras and Gorons interbreed to create fertile offspring? They're different species. Some similar species can interbreed - eg. horse + donkey = mule. However, the offspring is infertile. I think, anyway... Biology isn't really my strong point...

[garsh]

FatGoron, I think that was the dialog I was sort of remembering. Obviously it doesn't mention them swimming, but it verifies definately that the Rito had to evolve wings. That might seem like a given, but nothing can be taken for granted if you want to know things for sure.

[MikePetersSucks]

Um...no...I personally believe that the Ritos moved in, and the Zora's moved out. The Sage thing? Simple. the bloodline thing is a metaphor. The Sage thing is something that passes magically, like the Slayer line in Buffy. When one Sage dies, another takes it's place, chosen by qualities that are needed.

[Doopliss]

I think that Zoras simply turned magically into Ritos (Laruto was born before the change). It takes millions of years for marine species to evolve into earth species, and even more to develop wings. Zoras and Ritos can't have fertile descendants because they are not of the same species. Unless Medli's parents are a Rito and the Earth Sage, I don't see other possible way in which she can be a descendant of Laruto.

[FDL]

I don't agree, I really think the Zora's are the Rito. I think what happened was each god choose a tribe of people, each from a different race, that would go to the top of Hyrule's mountain's. The Goron's weren't included because they were moving to other lands and the Goron's who still lived in Hyrule didn't need the God's salvation. The Gerudo's either were extinct(possibly from Ganondorf getting his revenge), became the Rito(if the Zora's didn't), or weren't chosen by the god's(this theory seems very unlikely as they seem like Din's people.) Anyway, the Zora's became the Rito(unless the Gerudo's did), the Kokiri became the Korok's, and the Hylians/humans were taken in by Jabun and some traveled from Greatfish Isle to Outset and Windfall. The end.

[Vazor]

Huh...I never thought of it like that...three Goddesses...three major races...three spiritual stones...and three ancient guardians...
I don't agree with you on the Gerudos though, the island that they ended up on could easily just have been west of the Great Sea, allowing for them to exist by the time of FSA.

[FDL]

Huh...I never thought of it like that...three Goddesses...three major races...three spiritual stones...and three ancient guardians...
I don't agree with you on the Gerudos though, the island that they ended up on could easily just have been west of the Great Sea, allowing for them to exist by the time of FSA

Yeah, that could be. But I do still hold by my theory of each Goddess choosing a race. I'll elaborate and say this: I think the pearls are not the spiritual stones. I think they are what the Goddesses gave their chosen race, sorta to let each chosen group know they were chosen.

[Zythe]

IMO, the waters became overtaken by monsters so the Zoras evolved/were changed. Som fish did evolve into birds, FYI.

[MikePetersSucks]

I don't think the pearls were given to the races because they were special. They were given them because they were best suited for the job of protecting them until Link, the Hero of Time, was SUPPOSEDLY supposed to return. If they had any other owners, Link's quest wouldn't be as successful. And evolution doesn't work in this case, magical or otherwise, because evolution is supposed to be a long and tedious task for survival's benefit. If the Zora HAD to evolve, it would of been MUCH simpler for them to evolve to live in Great Sea water instead of fresh water. Also, that still doesn't account for Valoo. You're saying the Zora became the Rito and adopted a new god when their old one was just fine? If I was a Zora, I'd be asking Jabun to adapt my gills so I could survive instead of hoping for some dragon to arrive and magically transform me. then their's the Wind Gods that the Rito used to worship in "The old days". I don't remember the Zora's believing any gods like that. So since their are Zora's in other countries, it's easier to believe and explain that they left the tainted, unpollutable waters, and a new race came and inhabited the tallest island they could find for their needs, bringing their gods with them. Hyrule is a country, not a planet, so not all the races have to be interconnected.

[Tekky]

The Rito are quite hawk like. Medli looks more like...well, a duck. And wasnt she taken in by Prince Komali's grandma? She saw the harp that Medli carried or something. If Medli was the offspring of some interspecies breeding, she might have been considered an outcast. Like in Deep Space Nine, Gul Dukats daughter from his Bajoran Mistress was an outcast because she was half Cardassian/half Bajoran...

Also notice how the only two Rito to wear the Zora symbol are Medli and Prince Komali. You would think that if that symbol was important to the Rito (if they were evolved from Zoras) it would be a lot more prominant. It could just be that Medli gave that necklace to Komali as a gift.

[Vazor]

I don't think the pearls were given to the races because they were special. They were given them because they were best suited for the job of protecting them until Link, the Hero of Time, was SUPPOSEDLY supposed to return. If they had any other owners, Link's quest wouldn't be as successful.

And where did they come from? Their races'd had them for a long time already. Score one for the Goron/Rito connection.

And evolution doesn't work in this case, magical or otherwise, because evolution is supposed to be a long and tedious task for survival's benefit.

Why couldn't magical evolution work? I mean, if the Kokiri could become the Koroks in that amount of time with the help of magic, then why couldn't the same happen to the Zora? Score one for the Rito/Zora connection.

You're saying the Zora became the Rito and adopted a new god when their old one was just fine? If I was a Zora, I'd be asking Jabun to adapt my gills so I could survive instead of hoping for some dragon to arrive and magically transform me.

If you didn't notice, Jabun was hiding near Outset island. Don't you think that if he left, the Zoras would look for a new God to worship? Enough said.

Then their's the Wind Gods that the Rito used to worship in "The old days". I don't remember the Zora's believing any gods like that.

So you're denying that Jabu Jabu and the LA Wind Fish have any connection? Odd...

So since their are Zora's in other countries, it's easier to believe and explain that they left the tainted, unpollutable waters, and a new race came and inhabited the tallest island they could find for their needs, bringing their gods with them. Hyrule is a country, not a planet, so not all the races have to be interconnected.

Not all of them have to have stayed or left. Suppose that the ones that left became the monster-like Zoras, what with no God-figure to guide them, and returned by the time of LTTP.
The creators obviously meant for some kind of connection to exist between the Rito and the Zora, otherwise they wouldn't have put in all the things that hint towards their connection.

[Fatgoron]

Your non-sequiter logic intrigues me, how are you arriving at those conclusions from the premises given?

[Zythe]

Fish and walking-potatoes are different species. Period.