42 replies to this topic

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I've been reading what you guys have been saying.

Now, let me explain why the future that Link experienced cannot be erased. Now because I don't have time to draw a picture, I must explain this to you carefully:

In the past, Link pulls out the MS. He gets sealed away for 7 years and ages 7 years. Are we all up to speed with that? So, initially, no time travel is involved. He just ages and wakes up in the future, to find the world devastated by Ganondorf's evil minions. He fights them, but eventually has to go back in time but in doing so, he is mysteriously restored to his youthful body. (Let us ignore that fact for the moment, as that will only complicate matters).

He travels back and forth. That's all fine. He defeats Ganon and is returned to the past.

All that future stuff is done and gone behind him. It is in the past, not the historical past but his past. He has already experienced it. Now, if the future is erased, as some of you have been saying, then Ganon's Kingdom would not have existed and when he woke up seven years later, he would not have had to fight Ganon in the first place.

But he clearly did fight Ganon! He's experienced it! It's been done! It's in his past! If the future is erased, then all his experiences in that future would not have happened and hence, his experiences and memories of that future would also have been erased.

Clearly, however, if the future isn't erased then we suddenly end up with two Links. We end up with the Link that was sealed away in the Sacred Realm for seven years (Link1) and the Link that had come back from the future to live out those seven years in Hyrule/Real World (Link2).

This comes up with a problem of two Links. Clearly, we cannot have two Links at the same time (unless we're talking Four Sword). So what happened to the one that had gone back in time to live out his life ?

Did he die? It's not probable, as seeing as Link2 has had all that experience, he would have been more than capable of defending himself. What's even more improbable is that Link2 having gone back to the past, would not have been the sort of person to allow Ganon to take over in the first place. He would have stopped Ganon.

This would also "erase" the future, but if he stopped Ganon from conquering, then the future in which he gained all that fighting experience would not have happened and hence his memories of Ganon conquering would have ceased to exist. If his memories of Ganon conquering ceased to exist, he would have been less capable of stopping Ganon from conquering Hyrule and might have died in preventing Ganon from conquering, which would meant the future wasn't erased etc.

Anyone who says time travel is simple is a fool. In fact, I think I just might need to make a diagram as my previous explanation seems quite complicated in prose form.

[Doopliss]

I think that Zelda didn't simply send Link to the past when she met him as Sheik for the first time because, as I said before, she didn't know that everything that Link made was going to be useless at the end, she thought that, after defeating Ganondorf, everything would return to normality, but it wasn't until Link defeated Ganon that Zelda realized that everything was a mistake, plus seeing it from a selfish way, Zelda would have remained unprotected, because revealing herself to Link and sending him back would have left her in the hands of Ganondorf; Link wouldn't have been there to help her as he did in the original story.

About the ending, I'm convinced that Zelda sent Link to a time before he opened the Door of Time, because in the ending, when Link appears in front of the Master Sword as if he were about to yield it, we see clearly that the door is closed; logically he found a way to get out of the place where the Master Sword lies, maybe, as some people have suggested before, it can be opened from the inside.

Wolf, maybe this will result interesting for you, for an odd reason, every time I post it, it's strangely ignored. It's simply brilliant, it solves all the problems concerning time-travel.

First of all, I would like to point that Link travels exactly seven years back and forth. For example, if Link is in the past, at 3.33 pm, then travels to the future, when he arrives there, it will be 3.33 pm, exactly seven years later.

Now, Link travels consciously (in mind).

And, finally, I would like to point that the objects Link gets in the past, travel with him to the future (by means of the Sacred Realm, when Link's mind gets to the future the objects he collected appear with him when he emerges from the Sacred Realm.) I'm pretty sure that the pieces of hearth weren't intended to appear in the 'real story,' anyway a good way to explain it is that, since the same object cannot be in the same place, at the same time, 'the past' pieces disappear when Link travels to the past with them.

Link already did all the things you see him doing when traveling to the past when he waked by the first time in the Sacred Realm (I dare to guess that he's waked up by Rauru, does them and forgets them). The problem would be, where does Link's body stays when he "travels" to the past? Simple, it stays sleeping in the future, remembers what he already did and wakes up. He never really time-travels.

MJ pwns (this is just my Mike Peter's style signature, ignore it).

[Husse]

his experiences and memories of that future would also have been erased.

In brief, that makes no sense. I know he time travels differently than Marty McFly, but the principle is the same. Marty remembers Biff's tyrannical city rule, even though it never happened, Link can do the same.

"Ah, but his CONSCIOUSNESS traveled time, not his body," you say.

No difference. If there are two Links as you say, only the second Link, the one in the future, would remember. The memories of the other, even with your theory, of two Links, would be erased, and Young green lad would be wondering wtf he was doing in the Temple of Time putting a sword back in a pedestal. Which he isn't. He's fully conscious. So even your theory doesn't make sense. Of course, you won't believe me, but that's simply the way it is, if his persona REALLY splits as you seem to think.

You can tell I'm an "uno" timeline person.

[Trinbadman]

I knew I'd have to explain this again. Perhaps "timeless" is a poor choice of description. That it is seperated from the normal flow of time is perhaps a better description.
 
To aid in my explanation I've drawn a pretty picture. Because Link travels back and forth through time, his own personal timeline is seperate to the normal flow, and this allows for him to affect the sacred realm (which I am saying is seperate to the normal flow of time and, like Link, has its own timeline) in a non-linear capacity.
 
Observe:
Time flows normally up to the beginning of Links journey through time. Link opens the doors to the sacred realm, allowing for the first event in the sacred realm to take place, which is Ganondorf touching the triforce and its splitting into three parts. Ganondorf leaves the sacred realm to conquer Hyrule.
 
Link travels back and forth through time. Eventually Adult Link defeats Ganon and he is sealed in the void of the sacred realm. This is the second event to take place in the sacred realm.
 
Link travels back to the past and shuts the doors of time. He now once again exists in the linear timeline.
 
Essentially we have two seperate timelines - one in the sacred realm and one in Hyrule. They are both Linear. Link, as a traveller through time and hence not affected by the laws of cause and affect (in the game there is sometimes affect and then cause), he is able to affect the timelines in a non-linear capacity.
 
Note:I'll upload a picture in a minute. Edit: Picture uploaded (duh!)
 

Ngh. Too complicated. Anyone remember this? I suggested ages ago that the Sacred Realm could transcend time, only I couldn't explain it properly. Congrats, TSA.

Attached Files

•  timeline.JPG   61.6K   38 downloads

[Darunia]

I was reading this and had a funny realization. Throughout the entire game, Shiek was considered to be a secondary character; the one that protected Zelda from any harm. Yet, at the end of the game, we find out that Shiek is really Zelda in the future timeline. Is it possible that Zelda's gone back into the past and played Shiek JUST to prevent herself from being hurt by Ganondorf? If this is at all a possibility, then we must rethink the rest of the timeline theories.

*Note: This may have been mentioned sometime before, and if it has, then I deeply apologize, because I thought it was a genuine idea.*

*Edit: I must be cracked or something, because I just remembered that Shiek was only in Link's adult timeline. Impa was her protector... DUHHH... and if TSA or someone else already said that, I thank ya. I just haven't finished readin ur post yet TSA. Going there now. *

[TSA]

If Link indeed was sent back in time after he originally opened the door of time and went to the future, it would mean that the same sword should be there.

Yeah, it's the same sword. There aren't two Master Swords. Yes, Link removed the sword as Young Link, but he is sent back to that moment, and places the sword "DOWN". Notice...NOTICE...how everytime you go back, it is PUT BACK!?!? Sure it is. Yet, the game doesn't end there? I wonder why. Because 1) You have to finish the game, of course. 2) The Master Sword chose him to be the Hero of Time, and he can't fulfill this until he defeats Ganon with the power of the Sages. 3) Link can only be sent back permanently to the past by Zelda, the sage, at the end.

Another thing to point out is that Zelda originally left with Impa (and she had to because Link was sent back after those events because the gate was already opened at the second ending of OoT), so why is she looking at the window again? She was suppose to be in hiding, and in the manga Impa brainwashed her so she wouldn't know her identity either (or really mess with her mind).

I already gave an explanation. If you're going to throw off Ganondorf and BUY TIME for Link to make it into the Temple of Time, you stage a battle. Impa/Zelda only fled because Ganondorf attacked and wanted the Ocarina of Time. Ganondorf followed her. She saw Link was RETURNING! She knew he had the three stones. It was over, Zelda left a telepathic message, as well, to instruct Link what to do. When LINK AND GANONDORF entered the Sacred Realm, Zelda RETURNED to Hyrule Castle to see if Link had STOPPED HIM. When she FOUND NOTHING, she returned to the CASTLE. She even says as Sheik/Zelda at the end "I waited 7 long years for you". She was waiting in the courtyard for Link...where they first met. Romantic, isn't it? She waited until Ganondorf came back with the Triforce of Power, and she turned into Sheik and fled.

Also, in the MM flashback, we seen Zelda giving him a SECOND OCARINA.

Actually, you can't prove this. You see, the line Zelda says at the end of Ocarina of Time is "Link, give me the Ocarina. As a sage, I can return you to your time with it." You see, that line reads two ways - I can send you back with the power of the Ocarina, or I can send you back with you having the Ocarina since I am a sage. I read it the second way. Zelda is the Sage of Time, in my opinion, and according to the Japanese MM guide. She had the power to send Link back with the Ocarina, since it CAME FROM the past. Link only naturally returned it to Zelda when they met. It wasn't his, it was the Royal Family's. But in Majora's Mask, Zelda re-entrusts it to him. Perhaps, she did not want it being in the Land of Hyrule anymore.

[Darunia]

Or perhaps she was still afraid that Ganondorf would somehow come for it, and then be able to gain access to the Temple of Time, and the gate to the Sacred Realm, where he could come and go as he pleased.

[Tekky]

About the ending, I'm convinced that Zelda sent Link to a time before he opened the Door of Time, because in the ending, when Link appears in front of the Master Sword as if he were about to yield it, we see clearly that the door is closed; logically he found a way to get out of the place where the Master Sword lies, maybe, as some people have suggested before, it can be opened from the inside.

Actually, the Door of Time is OPEN at the end of the Game... You can clearly see all the way into the other part of the Temple of Time.

Another interesting thing to note is that if you equip the Hylian Shield as a Child, then pull the Master Sword and complete the game, in the ending sequence Young Link once again has the Hylian Shield equipped...

[Hero of Winds]

Another interesting thing to note is that if you equip the Hylian Shield as a Child, then pull the Master Sword and complete the game, in the ending sequence Young Link once again has the Hylian Shield equipped...

On a related note, Link will always have the Hylian Shield equipped at the end (if you picked it up, I presume). Even if equip Link with the Deku Shield in the past, and Mirror Shield in the future, he'll have the Hylian Shield on in the ending.

[SwordBreaker]

"Link, give me the Ocarina. As a sage, I can return you to your time with it."

Something I'd like to add here. Personally, I think Zelda didn't know the consequences of returning Link back to his time. It seemed like she thought that he would return back, but the current Dark Timeline will exist.

[Husse]

That quote from Zelda proves nothing you just said. Only the formality of Japanese translation. "Yuor time," does not mean, "Some time other than the this split one." It means, the life you left as a child.

[Doopliss]

On a related note, Link will always have the Hylian Shield equipped at the end (if you picked it up, I presume). Even if equip Link with the Deku Shield in the past, and Mirror Shield in the future, he'll have the Hylian Shield on in the ending.

If you read my last post in this thread completely you'll understand this.

We see at the end that Link is in front of the Door of Time, no? According to my time-travel theory this means that Rauru woke up Link when Zelda sent him back at the end (he was sent consciously and adult Link was put to sleep, as it happened before, while sleeping he remembered what I'm going to say), so- I've changed my mind- now I think that Zelda sent Link to a time after he did all what he remembers doing when he "travels" from the future to the past, as TSA suggested, Zelda was in the castle, Link gave her the Ocarina and then, she gave it to him as we see in Majora's Mask, then Link leaves, saves Termina, lives his life and returns to the Sacred Realm, then forgets what he did and does everything we see in the adult time in OoT, after many time passes from the ending he wakes up, but remembering his quest to Termina and when he lived his life, then lives in Hyrule (as an adult) and dies.

I know it's complicated, but at least it works without multiple timelines.

MJ pwns.