
Explaining Ocarina of Time's Ending
#1
Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:56 AM
So we have Ocarina of Time Young Link occur, right?
Link gets three spiritual stones.
Link gets Ocarina of Time.
Zelda flees with Impa.
Ganondorf, although he invaded Hyrule Castle, is NOT THERE and ON HIS OWN chasing Zelda.
Then, we move to the Temple of Time:
Link places three stones onto the alter.
Opens Door of Time.
Draws Master Sword.
Ganondorf ENTERS SACRED REALM.
Alright, remember that.
Adult Link portion happens as we know, right? Ganondorf is sealed at the end, by Seven Sages, as we all know, with the Triforce of Power.
So:
Ganondorf sealed.
Link has Triforce of Courage.
Zelda has Wisdom.
Ganondorf has Power.
Link sent back.
NOW, this is where you can argue, but I am not budging:
Link returns to the MOMENT AFTER he drew the Master Sword, meaning...ta dah...GANONDORF ENTERED THE SACRED REALM ALREADY.
Link RETURNS THE MASTER SWORD, SEALING THE GATE BACK TO YOUNG LINK'S TIME AND BACK TO HYRULE.
GANONDORF IS SEALED IN THE SACRED REALM...with what?
The Triforce.
Now...this may help multi timeline theorists because, according to this:
The Triforce is unified in the Sacred Realm in Young LInk's timeline - SURE, Link has the MARK OF THE TRIFORCE, but does he REALLY HAVE THE PIECE? You can't say for sure. Just being honest.
This means ALttP would come after MM sometime, and this TOTALLY would fall in line with ALttP's story and events. The Seven Sages thing is just a story that Link must have told Zelda, who as YOUNG ZELDA, experience everything UP TO THE MASTER SWORD BEING DRAWN OUT. This means she knew of her and Link's actions to stop Ganondorf. She would also ask Link what happened, as they did meet in the end, and thus she would know the truth.
The truth, which is explained in the INTRO OF MM - which explains "THERE IS A LEGEND, A LEGEND HELD DEARLY BY THE ROYAL FAMILY". And that legend tells of the boy who traveled across time to save Hyrule. This tale exists in the Young Link timeline. This is evidence people know of Adult Link's actions. At least, the Royal Family.
Now, back to OoT. I know many of you will take this as support for the Multi Timeline, but this is my view.
Ocarina of Time was about stopping the dark future that should not be. I still say the Dark Future that came vanished when Link returned and placed the Master Sword to rest. Then you may claim OoT was about nothing. But had Link FAILED as an Adult, that future would have been PERMANENT.
Thus, going back in time...placing that Master Sword as a SEAL on Ganondorf...it seals him away. And if Link DOES HAVE the ToC - Maybe it is not because HE TOOK IT BACK, but because GANONDORF TOUCHES THE TRIFORCE IN THE SACRED REALM!!!!!
Then Link WOULD have the ToC as Young Link, and Zelda would have Wisdom. Makes sense!!!!
Not to mention, in The Wind Waker, the MASTER SWORD IS A SEAL ON GANONDORF! This falls in line with what I said abotu OoT's ending! Ganondorf also has the SAGES WHO GIVE THE MASTER SWORD POWER KILLED so he can break free! But not permanently! He has to wait until LINK REMOVED IT IN TWW to return to his full power.
Thus, OoT - MM - TWW makes perfect sense, and it's quite simple to me.
But yes, I still can't explain how Hyrule returns, if it does, after TWW. But that's not my concern. I am not proving OoT - MM - TWW - ALttP. I am proving OoT - MM - TWW with reason and evidence.
No more "Legend of the Fairy". No more technicalities. I truly believe this is how it was meant, and its been staring us in the face.
Oh yeah, according to your uncut version here, and found in GamePro:
Q: Where does The Wind Walker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.
Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.
Miyamoto is NOT SURE...he's asking Aonuma. WTF!?!? Not sure, and yet people take this as law? For crying out loud...this is speculative, at best. Hardly the convincing evidence. They said its confusing for them, and niether of them are quite sure. Although this interview was posted in Dec on that site, it was conducted in October 2002, two months before final release. Quite frankly, if anything, the uncut quote proves niether Mr. Aonuma or Miyamoto were truly in control of TWW's placement, but that their remarks were based off of somebody else's idea or decision.
Anyway...just thought I'd re-throw this out there.
#2
Posted 19 January 2005 - 02:17 AM
Based on this evidence, it can be reasonably assumed that Ganon has no connection to the child timeline for a long time, correct?
#3
Posted 19 January 2005 - 06:57 AM
Ocarina of Time was about stopping the dark future that should not be. I still say the Dark Future that came vanished when Link returned and placed the Master Sword to rest. Then you may claim OoT was about nothing. But had Link FAILED as an Adult, that future would have been PERMANENT.
Here's my biggest problem. If Link's goal was to erase the future, and prevent it from ever happening, why not just go back in time after he woke up? Rauru would wake up Link, he would return to the Temple of Time, travel back to the past, and put the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time. Same result: future's gone, Ganondorf trapped in Sacred Realm, but this time he did it without having to do any work.
#4
Posted 19 January 2005 - 09:36 AM
1. the timing would have to be PERFECT, who knows how long he stayed in said realm?
2. just because the only way -in- is using the door of time, doesn't mean that's the only way -out-
#5
Posted 19 January 2005 - 10:55 AM
#6
Posted 19 January 2005 - 11:01 AM
#7
Posted 19 January 2005 - 11:32 AM
I know you're just trying to connect OOT-MM and TWW, but I must say it still wouldn't help to explain how Ganon got back into the Sacred Realm/Dark World, with the FULL (all three pieces) Triforce at his disposal at the start of LTTP.Then Link WOULD have the ToC as Young Link, and Zelda would have Wisdom. Makes sense!!!!
Not to mention, in The Wind Waker, the MASTER SWORD IS A SEAL ON GANONDORF! This falls in line with what I said abotu OoT's ending! Ganondorf also has the SAGES WHO GIVE THE MASTER SWORD POWER KILLED so he can break free! But not permanently! He has to wait until LINK REMOVED IT IN TWW to return to his full power.
Thus, OoT - MM - TWW makes perfect sense, and it's quite simple to me.
Here's my biggest problem. If Link's goal was to erase the future, and prevent it from ever happening, why not just go back in time after he woke up? Rauru would wake up Link, he would return to the Temple of Time, travel back to the past, and put the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time. Same result: future's gone, Ganondorf trapped in Sacred Realm, but this time he did it without having to do any work.
One could say that using the Master Sword in conjunction with the Temple of Time may only set him back in time at the same time of day that he left the future--so even if it was a split second that Link spent in the future that may have been ample time for Ganon to to get in and out of the Sacred Realm. At the end, Link doesn't travel back to time via the MS and ToT, he is sent back to his "original" time by Zelda--who used the Ocarina--perhaps this is a more accurate form of time travel that can pinpoint exactly what point you want to go back to--a method that only Zelda seems to do. Hold up---! I wrote all that for nothing! The same question comes up (somewhat)--Zelda could've done sent him back when she first met Adult Link as Sheik!
#8
Posted 19 January 2005 - 11:56 AM
Thus, going back in time...placing that Master Sword as a SEAL on Ganondorf...it seals him away. And if Link DOES HAVE the ToC - Maybe it is not because HE TOOK IT BACK, but because GANONDORF TOUCHES THE TRIFORCE IN THE SACRED REALM!!!!!
I wonder though...could this technically be where the Dark World started forming?
#9
Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:28 PM
Think of the Sacred Realm as a timeless place. There is plenty of evidence from ALttP to suggest this. For instance, many of the characters you meet in the Dark Realm must be incredibly old and should have died from the passage of time that has occured in the Light Realm but they have not. So when Ganondorf was sealed in the Void of the Sacred Realm in the adult timeline, he is still sealed in the Void of the Sacred Realm when Link goes back to the child timeline.
I'm sure I'll have to explain this again.
#10
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:01 PM
#11
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:01 PM
And if Ganon is infinitely sealed (impossible!) then he'd never have been around to be sealed in the first place. And then there'd be no Zelda games!
Why am I discussing time travel?? It's a flawed philosophy in itself!
#12
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:16 PM
To be afected by the opening of the flood gates in the light world, the two continuums would have to run parallel to one another.
#13
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:17 PM
Think of the Sacred Realm as a timeless place. There is plenty of evidence from ALttP to suggest this. For instance, many of the characters you meet in the Dark Realm must be incredibly old and should have died from the passage of time that has occured in the Light Realm but they have not. So when Ganondorf was sealed in the Void of the Sacred Realm in the adult timeline, he is still sealed in the Void of the Sacred Realm when Link goes back to the child timeline.
I believed that for the longest time, until I realized what Zythe said at age 11: IF IT IS TRUELY TIMELESS, THEN GANONDORF WOULD BE LOCKED IN THERE AND HIS EXISTENCE ERASED UNTIL THE PREQUEL STORY IN WW! Gee, caps is fun!
Which can't be, because Link is hailed as a hero in MM for sealing up Ganon. What, no one heard that he did it, if the Realm is timeless. That, and it's highly concievable that Link, trapped in it, would not age.
Thus, after squeezing my brain, I changed my theory to that of TSA's...with one little problem that bugs me...WHY is Zelda back in her courtyard at the exact same pose she was: "spying on her father?"
That's what screw that theory up, the ONLY thing. Please help explain this, it will really help with my OoT story...
#14
Guest_TanakaBros06_*
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:39 PM
Lots of people say that multiple timelines is too sci-fi and that it cheapens Zelda. I'd have to respond that erasing an unwanted future is infinitely cheaper.
#15
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:57 PM
You see, the Master Sword chose Link. He has a quest. If he doesn't do the quest, then he will fail. Plus, Link DID touch the sword, he DID go into the future...maybe to truly go back and stay, and wield the Master Sword as a kid to use it as a seal, maybe he had to PROVE he as the Hero of Time. Wasn't that what his whole 7 year slumber was? He had to become the Hero of Time. Only the Hero of Time could save Hyrule. If not, Link could have saved the day when he first drew the sword.
However, he couldn't. He had to become the Hero of Time, and combine forces with the Sages to reach true potential. He had to learn the truth. Sure, I admit Nintendo could have just completely ignored this...but it just seems like Link had to stop Ganondorf in the future...because he was bound to it as the Hero of Time.
As for the ending - notice whenever you go to Young Link's era...what is up? Hyrule Castle still exists. Guards still there, protecting. Ganondorf did NOT conquer Hyrule then. He went into the Sacred Realm, and came out and then conquered Hyrule. Hence, Hyrule is safe at that moment. Not to mention, Zelda only fled to hide the Ocarina. Who is to say once it was in Link's hands, she wouldn't return to Hyrule Castle under the guard of the soldiers, not to mention to divert Ganondorf away from Link?
Who said she is spying on her father? Did Zelda speak in the end? If you're going to use ambiguity against my ideas, I'll use them right back. We do not know what Zelda knows at that moment for sure, we don't know why she is back at the courtyard, we don't know why she is staring through a window.
Maybe she is awaiting Ganondorf to return to seek her out...and is scared.
Ever think of that?
#16
Posted 19 January 2005 - 03:59 PM
#17
Posted 19 January 2005 - 04:00 PM
To aid in my explanation I've drawn a pretty picture. Because Link travels back and forth through time, his own personal timeline is seperate to the normal flow, and this allows for him to affect the sacred realm (which I am saying is seperate to the normal flow of time and, like Link, has its own timeline) in a non-linear capacity.
Observe:
Time flows normally up to the beginning of Links journey through time. Link opens the doors to the sacred realm, allowing for the first event in the sacred realm to take place, which is Ganondorf touching the triforce and its splitting into three parts. Ganondorf leaves the sacred realm to conquer Hyrule.
Link travels back and forth through time. Eventually Adult Link defeats Ganon and he is sealed in the void of the sacred realm. This is the second event to take place in the sacred realm.
Link travels back to the past and shuts the doors of time. He now once again exists in the linear timeline.
Essentially we have two seperate timelines - one in the sacred realm and one in Hyrule. They are both Linear. Link, as a traveller through time and hence not affected by the laws of cause and affect (in the game there is sometimes affect and then cause), he is able to affect the timelines in a non-linear capacity.
Note:I'll upload a picture in a minute. Edit: Picture uploaded (duh!)
Attached Files
#18
Posted 19 January 2005 - 05:11 PM

#19
Posted 19 January 2005 - 05:31 PM
#20
Posted 19 January 2005 - 05:34 PM
I see what you're saying about the whole deal with proving a hero's worth, but if you can control time with an Ocarina, and pin point exactly where to go--what's the use of needing some guy around to be a hero? All Zelda has to do is blow on the Ocarina, like she did in the end to prevent the madness that led to that torn future to begin with. But I guess that wouldn't make a good story.(TSA)
You see, the Master Sword chose Link. He has a quest. If he doesn't do the quest, then he will fail. Plus, Link DID touch the sword, he DID go into the future...maybe to truly go back and stay, and wield the Master Sword as a kid to use it as a seal, maybe he had to PROVE he as the Hero of Time. Wasn't that what his whole 7 year slumber was? He had to become the Hero of Time. Only the Hero of Time could save Hyrule. If not, Link could have saved the day when he first drew the sword.
However, he couldn't. He had to become the Hero of Time, and combine forces with the Sages to reach true potential. He had to learn the truth. Sure, I admit Nintendo could have just completely ignored this...but it just seems like Link had to stop Ganondorf in the future...because he was bound to it as the Hero of Time.
(TSA) As for the ending - notice whenever you go to Young Link's era...what is up? Hyrule Castle still exists. Guards still there, protecting. Ganondorf did NOT conquer Hyrule then. He went into the Sacred Realm, and came out and then conquered Hyrule. Hence, Hyrule is safe at that moment. Not to mention, Zelda only fled to hide the Ocarina. Who is to say once it was in Link's hands, she wouldn't return to Hyrule Castle under the guard of the soldiers, not to mention to divert Ganondorf away from Link?
Who said she is spying on her father? Did Zelda speak in the end? If you're going to use ambiguity against my ideas, I'll use them right back. We do not know what Zelda knows at that moment for sure, we don't know why she is back at the courtyard, we don't know why she is staring through a window.
Why would Zelda return to the castle if she may not know if Ganon is still on the loose or not? Sure you have the castle guard and all, but why flee the castle in the first place if she felt that safe in the castle (after all they couldn't stop Ganon from chasing her, so I wouldn't depend on them).
Lets suppose if we go by this idea of Ganon getting stuck in the Sacred Realm upon Links arrival in the past. As we know, Ganon accessed the Realm when Link pulled the MS--which is immediately after Ganon was seen chasing Zelda and Impa. Why would Zelda return to the castle right after she was chased out of it, and her assailant may still be on the loose? I just don't buy Ganon getting stuck in the Realm upon Link's arrival, while Zelda is snooping into the castle, right after she was chased out of it. I just think Link was sent to a time before he met Zelda.
#21
Posted 19 January 2005 - 05:52 PM
Because only Zelda could truly send him back. Not to mention, maybe the Master Sword would not have remained as a "seal" had the task set before Link not been completed.
You see, the Master Sword chose Link. He has a quest. If he doesn't do the quest, then he will fail. Plus, Link DID touch the sword, he DID go into the future...maybe to truly go back and stay, and wield the Master Sword as a kid to use it as a seal, maybe he had to PROVE he as the Hero of Time. Wasn't that what his whole 7 year slumber was? He had to become the Hero of Time. Only the Hero of Time could save Hyrule. If not, Link could have saved the day when he first drew the sword.
However, he couldn't. He had to become the Hero of Time, and combine forces with the Sages to reach true potential. He had to learn the truth. Sure, I admit Nintendo could have just completely ignored this...but it just seems like Link had to stop Ganondorf in the future...because he was bound to it as the Hero of Time.
I still don't understand your logic. If the future would be erased, why would it matter if Ganondorf was defeated by Link or not? Sure, he was chosen to be the Hero of Time, but how would that cause the future to affect the past? All of that stuff you said (Link aging, combing his power with the Sages, etc.) all happened in a future that, to you, never happened. So what's the point? Why would he HAVE to defeat Ganon to erase the future if it could've been erased from the beginning? What if his quest as Hero of Time was just to return to the past and seal up the Door of Time?
#22
Posted 19 January 2005 - 06:39 PM
WOAH! Someone needs an attitude adjustment BAAAAD. Need I remind you:Who said she is spying on her father? Did Zelda speak in the end? If you're going to use ambiguity against my ideas, I'll use them right back. We do not know what Zelda knows at that moment for sure, we don't know why she is back at the courtyard, we don't know why she is staring through a window.
Maybe she is awaiting Ganondorf to return to seek her out...and is scared.
Ever think of that?
Thus, after squeezing my brain, I changed my theory to that of TSA's
When I was 12, mind you, as well...I didn't pose that as evidence AGAINST you, Mr. Uptight, it was just something I couldn't figure out neither. And, if you look at it from a developer's pointof view, they are the ones who CREATED the story, what does it look like?
Would they deliberately lead you on when the scene at the end is EXACTLY identical to the one near the beginning? That's a film technique. When someone goes back in time and another person repeats an action piece-by-piece verbatim the way they did before, it's to tell you where you are in the story. Zelda acts EXACTLY as she did when you first met her. THAT's the problem with the theory. I'm not trying to explain it better than you, I'm just saying I've always agreed with the theory you've presented and am frustrated b/c that's screwing it up.
Now...
This is my basis. Sci-fi is used in Zelda for fun and interest, but one should never take it overboard. That's why I like TSA's theory. It seems to be the perfect mittellund between obscure and too complicated.Nothing too sci-fi for Zelda since sci-fi isn't limited to UFO and wormholes and junk (WHICH HAVE APPEARED IN ZELDA GAMES BEFORE!)
And Marty, that's kind of wild. This is Zelda. This is Miyamoto. This is a kid's game. Let's not stretch the mind with an only slightly plausible theory once you can get your brain around it. :/
I see what you're saying about the whole deal with proving a hero's worth, but if you can control time with an Ocarina, and pin point exactly where to go--what's the use of needing some guy around to be a hero? All Zelda has to do is blow on the Ocarina, like she did in the end to prevent the madness that led to that torn future to begin with. But I guess that wouldn't make a good story.
Well, I'm not going to spout on and on about destiny, but there's two things I can say. One is logic, one is character/story. One, Link couldn't FIND Zelda. She was in hiding, waiting for the opportune moment to spring her plan. Her plans, as we've seen in the beginning, (Get the Triforce before Ganondorf...) have always been a little over the top. When she appears to Link, they don't have much time to talk about the "better" thing to do.
Two, this is part of Link's personal journey. He WANTS to be a hero. He's a noble, humble, quiet, little guy who has a flair for being courageous. (Please don't try to argue against that, people, "because no character said that," it's in the cinema of the thing, it's a character study.) He grows through this experience to want the normal life. To be proud of what he's done, but still be exhausted by it. He gives Zelda the Ocarina, and then what? He goes swashbuckling, cock-a-doodle-doo, in your face, Mido and everyone else? Nope. He waltzes slowly out of the Temple and goes to stay with the princess, among Hylians, where he belongs, quietly. Of course, in MM, we hear he's still swarmed for autographs for locking up Ganondorf, but what does he do? He retreats to search for Navi, (or Skull Kid, some argue,) and is forced to go into another swashbuckling adventure which he HUMBLY accepts.
What's my point? Good question. The developers are trying to tell a story. Link doesn't do the smart thing, he does the honorable thing. He does what people tell him to, all the while searching for Princess Zelda, and when all has been said and done, he returns happily to the life he lost. Some people are like that. There you have it.
Whew....
#23
Posted 19 January 2005 - 08:32 PM
#24
Posted 19 January 2005 - 08:49 PM
Link, although in the body of a 17 year old, is still a 10 year old boy.
To those saying "why didn't he just close the door before" or something...
You can go back at lots of times in the game, but the game won't let that be it, will it? That must be something else is up...
Maybe we are all overlooking why Link must save the future...maybe there is a really obvious, simple reason.
#25
Posted 19 January 2005 - 10:39 PM
#26
Posted 19 January 2005 - 11:18 PM
One could say that using the Master Sword in conjunction with the Temple of Time may only set him back in time at the same time of day that he left the future--so even if it was a split second that Link spent in the future that may have been ample time for Ganon to to get in and out of the Sacred Realm. At the end, Link doesn't travel back to time via the MS and ToT, he is sent back to his "original" time by Zelda--who used the Ocarina--perhaps this is a more accurate form of time travel that can pinpoint exactly what point you want to go back to--a method that only Zelda seems to do. Hold up---! I wrote all that for nothing! The same question comes up (somewhat)--Zelda could've done sent him back when she first met Adult Link as Sheik!
I think that they didn't do it because they didn't know yet that Link's quest wouldn't yield positive resutls.
The Silent Assassin, you can't just ignore that fact that Link visits Zelda at the end of the game, it would be completely illogical for Zelda to return to the castle if she knew that Ganondorf was on the loose.
Marty, your opinion about the Sacred Realm is comprehensible and, in my opinion, acceptable, I don't see any problem with it.
#27
Posted 20 January 2005 - 08:22 AM
Exactly. I don't care if Link knew that going back would stop all this. Link's exactly the kind of person who would go headfirst into a situation without thinking of the consequences if it meant saving other people's lives. Besides, Link's only a 10 year old boy that grew up in the woods. He probably wouldn't of understood that going back in time would erase the future, and he still had to find out if Zelda was ok and stop Ganondorf. It wasn't a question of Link being forced to go through with this, but because he WANTED to.
And as I said before, he COULDN'T. He couldn't find Zelda. SHE has to use the Ocarina, not HIM. If he just planted the sword, the point he went back to would have been too late.
#28
Posted 20 January 2005 - 12:58 PM
And as I said before, he COULDN'T. He couldn't find Zelda. SHE has to use the Ocarina, not HIM. If he just planted the sword, the point he went back to would have been too late.
You're right, Zelda is the one who could use the Ocarina to send Link back to any specific time she desires. As I said before, she had this option when she first met Link while she was disguised as Sheik. Some may say, she had to wait and see what would unfold and for the mission to bare positive results--why wait for all that and continue to let the people of Hyrule suffer, when you could just prevent all that with the simple blow of the Ocarina? Forget about a Hero having to prove his worth--that takes too long and too much pain and suffering of people--YOU be the Hero and end all this!
Nonetheless there is a reasonable excuse for this. Like TSA said there's a bigger picture to all this and a reason why Zelda didn't do something faster than needed to. Yes, Link had to prove he's not only the Hero of Time, but also the hero of destiny. Yes, Zelda could blow on the Ocarina and return everything to the way they were, but that wouldn't negate Ganon as a threat in the past (yeah I went there). She had to make sure that Link was fit to the task of defeating Ganon no matter what--she had to make a believer of herself that Link would still beat Ganon even when she sends Link back to his "original" time.
(Zelda at the end of OOT) All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule
was my doing... I was so young... I could not comprehend the consequences of
trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time
for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and
close the Door of Time... However, by doing this, the road between times will
be closed..." Zelda extends her hand to Link and says: "Link, give the Ocarina
to me. As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it."
After Link defeated Ganon Zelda now realized that Link was destined to defeat Ganon and be the hero of destiny. That is why she sent Link back, because she now realized that Link could've defeated Ganon without time travel. So if Link were to go back to the past, he would have the courage and know how to defeat Ganon. (Also, if he never ever time travel--he would've still defeated Ganon cuz it's his destiny).
I'm not saying Link would confront Ganon immediately upon his arrival into the past, but at least Ganon's plans could be delayed (since Link knows his plans) and when Link is of age, he can go onto defeat Ganon as is his destiny. So in other words Link endured all this, so that he has to courage and know how to fulfill his destiny in all times.
#29
Posted 20 January 2005 - 02:16 PM
#30
Guest_Zangus_*
Posted 20 January 2005 - 10:59 PM