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Possible Triforce Contradiction in TWW and SS?


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#1 Average Gamer

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 09:38 AM

So, after getting distracted and sidetracked for years, I finally played and completed Skyward Sword about two months ago. When I had completed Hylia's Temple and it came time for Link to wish on the Triforce and kill Demise, I noticed a major oddity regarding the use of the Triforce. After Link completed the temple, the Triforce pieces reunited a la The Wind Waker and Fi instructed Link to make a wish. However, Link never actually touched the Triforce, yet his wish was granted regardless.

 

The problem is, every other game in the series specified that you have to physically touch the Triforce in order to make a wish or otherwise be considered its master. It's because of this specific rule that King Daphnes was able to steal the Triforce from Ganon and wish for a future in the finale of The Wind Waker.

 

However, if we apply Skyward Sword's apparent rules, Daphnes' master plan would have been impossible. By virtue of assembling all three Triforce pieces, Ganon would have already been considered the master of the Triforce and thus could have had his wish granted just by speaking it. As such, the ending of The Wind Waker could not have possibly happened.

 

Is this an outright plot hole, or is there any exception that allows these two incidents to exist naturally in the series?



#2 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 02:38 PM

SS Link uh, gathered the three parts of it himself before they reassembled. He pretty much already had ownership of the Triforce via touch.



#3 Average Gamer

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 01:11 AM

The Triforce had yet to come together though, just being the divided individual pieces when Link obtained them in Sky Keep. Also, considering how the whole Silent Realm thing seemed to work, Link didn't physically touch the pieces. The Triforce immediately deemed him its master, but when Ganon willed the pieces to abandon Link and Zelda and they complied, the Triforce suddenly decided he didn't matter. These two instances don't seem to mesh up.



#4 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 02:42 PM

Considering King Daphnes is a ghost I don't think touching it with your physical hand is at all relevant.

In Skyward Sword, Link individually earned all three pieces; there was no division of ownership, so hey, he wins. With Ganondorf, the ownership of the Triforce was divided, so the only fair thing to do was to reunite. It didn't do so because Ganondorf 'willed it'; it just does that if you bring the pieces together, was always the apparent rule.

Also the Triforce is intelligent, so there's always that.


Edited by MikePetersSucks, 01 February 2015 - 02:43 PM.


#5 Average Gamer

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 04:23 AM

Considering King Daphnes is a ghost I don't think touching it with your physical hand is at all relevant.

In Skyward Sword, Link individually earned all three pieces; there was no division of ownership, so hey, he wins. With Ganondorf, the ownership of the Triforce was divided, so the only fair thing to do was to reunite. It didn't do so because Ganondorf 'willed it'; it just does that if you bring the pieces together, was always the apparent rule.

Also the Triforce is intelligent, so there's always that.

I always thought that Daphnes was alive thanks to magic, his shard of the Triforce of Wisdom, etc. Plus, he does actually turn around and walk at some points in the game, so he's not just a floating spectre.  ALttP also specified that the Triforce will only obey someone if they're alive.

 

While there wasn't a previous owner of the pieces in Skyward Sword, Ganon's assembling of the Triforce in TWW was apparently claiming ownership as well. He first had to defeat both wielders of the other pieces then looked to be specifically calling upon said pieces to leave their bodies. If all that was needed was for the pieces to be in close proximity, then the Triforce could have reunited without warning at virtually any moment in OoT, TWW, TP, etc.

 

As for the Triforce's sentience, wouldn't that make it even more aware that Ganon had fulfilled the previous conditions and won all pieces of the Triforce? It seems even less likely for a technicality to occur in that situation.


Edited by Average Gamer, 02 February 2015 - 04:32 AM.


#6 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 05:42 AM

Yeah I'm pretty sure collecting all three pieces counts as "touching it" in SS Link's case.
 

While there wasn't a previous owner of the pieces in Skyward Sword, Ganon's assembling of the Triforce in TWW was apparently claiming ownership as well. He first had to defeat both wielders of the other pieces then looked to be specifically calling upon said pieces to leave their bodies. If all that was needed was for the pieces to be in close proximity, then the Triforce could have reunited without warning at virtually any moment in OoT, TWW, TP, etc.

Maybe it's not that Ganon "defeated" Link and Zelda causing the Triforce to unite, but that Link and Zelda lost the strength to hold onto their pieces any longer.

#7 Spikey

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 09:27 AM

The problem is, every other game in the series specified that you have to physically touch the Triforce in order to make a wish or otherwise be considered its master. It's because of this specific rule that King Daphnes was able to steal the Triforce from Ganon and wish for a future in the finale of The Wind Waker.

 

 

Well, I don't think in Ocarina of Time the physical touch is as important for the wish, even though Ganondorf assumed that it was. It was already assembled, and the touching is mainly important for how the splitting and uniting of the Triforce works. You touch it with an unbalanced heart, you get the piece that reflects most what you indentify with (Ganondorf gets the "Power" piece). The other two are distributed to the two avatars most representing the specific other pieces at that time. Hence, Link got courage and Zelda wisdom when Ganondorf touched it. Link was of course sealed away when he opened the door of time, so the full Triforce was not available to anyone for a long while.

 

In Skyward Sword, the Triforce was assembled and its power claimed by someone with a balanced heart. All pieces were already touched, so it was Link's. I assume that wishes are granted until someone else with a balanced heart claims it by touching; this is sort of what happens in the Wind Waker.



#8 Average Gamer

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 09:51 AM

Maybe it's not that Ganon "defeated" Link and Zelda causing the Triforce to unite, but that Link and Zelda lost the strength to hold onto their pieces any longer.

 

 

Personally, I doubt that it's a matter of constantly willing a Triforce piece to stay with you. If it were, the pieces/shards could have abandoned the unaware Hero of Time, Tetra, etc. at any moment and complicated things.

 

 

In Skyward Sword, the Triforce was assembled and its power claimed by someone with a balanced heart. All pieces were already touched, so it was Link's. I assume that wishes are granted until someone else with a balanced heart claims it by touching; this is sort of what happens in the Wind Waker.

 

By "until someone else with a balanced heart claims it", do you mean that the Triforce would change allegiance if someone more "qualified" touched the Triforce after someone else claimed it?


Edited by Average Gamer, 03 February 2015 - 09:53 AM.


#9 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:03 AM

Maybe it's not that Ganon "defeated" Link and Zelda causing the Triforce to unite, but that Link and Zelda lost the strength to hold onto their pieces any longer.

 
Personally, I doubt that it's a matter of constantly willing a Triforce piece to stay with you. If it were, the pieces/shards could have abandoned the unaware Hero of Time, Tetra, etc. at any moment and complicated things.

I didn't say anything about consciously willing it to stay... I'm talking about how they lost their physical strength after the fight, and subsequently possibly their spiritual strength (morale) as well.




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