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#1 Veteran

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:13 AM

On September 18th the conquered folk of the north North will be voting to either remove themselves from the United Kingdom and the tyrannical rule of the bastard English, or remain as they are contributing to a diverse archapelago and looking after offshore nuclear weapons.

I have no invested opinion one way or another really. I don't think they'll vote to leave as I'm sceptical it would be a profitable move, but I do think it would be hilarious and a lot of fun if they do separate. The sheer amount of upheaval required to go independent will be joyous to watch from afar as well as smugly see changes happen that no one seems to have brought up.

Quick question: does USA and Australian news report much about Canada and New Zealand respectively? The comparison I'm drawing is that UK news does not report anything about the Republic of Ireland unless it's IRA related, despite how close they are from mainland Britain. Our weather forecasts never show any weather over Eire! It's like they don't exist.

I truely hope this happens to an independent Scotland too. Technically they should lose access to all BBC channels, and no one's mentioned this in all the debates we've had. Give and take though - they would regain an uncensored Google as they would have temporarily left Europe.


But no, the best thing to come out of independence and we've reached the TL;DR part - new flags.

The UK would need a redesigned Union flag. Any country using the Union flag in a quadrant would need to update and that means those countries would probably offer the suggestion of a complete redesign of their flag. I mean, if you have to replace your flag because the UK is, you may as well change the whole flag right, given the opportunity?

So Aussies, yellow kangaroo silhouette on a green background?

#2 Kwicky Koala

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 11:01 AM

I would be happy for them to go independent. I doubt I'd like some Eton-educated guy in London making big decisions for me if I was living up in Scotland.. wait, I don't like it living in London. And historically of course Scotland was its own nation for a long time.. of course it was also an equal part of what made "Britain" a successful entity as well.. whether it was an equal partner is of course more debatable.

Basically I think an independent Scotland could potentially return the government to the people. I think they'll be much more interested in fixing the problems within their country, then all the foreign policy that Britain engages in. It's just a hunch, but I think they'd be looking more towards Scandinavia for a model of their society rather than the USA as Britain seems to do. Plenty of people in England would like a government more concerned with building a better society than building a bigger army, but they don't have the chance that Scotland has to secede. Basically I'm optimistic because I think change is inevitable and good.. sadly a lot of other people I'm sure are getting very bothered by this topic, as though Scotland leaving the Union was a personal affront to them!

My one worry is that if Scotland is no longer voting in our elections, won't we be doomed to Conservative governments for the rest of our lives? Since Scotland always seemed to be Labour (or SNP) evening out the swathes of blue coming from much of rural England. But even this could convince people in England to be more politically active, and look to a newly independent Scotland for a model of how England could be.

Apologies if I missed something here, I haven't been following the news lately. So much back-and-forth mud-slinging goes on, plus the natural bias towards tragedies and violence in media, make it too depressing for me when I'm already clinically depressed.

#3 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 01:11 PM

Quick question: does USA and Australian news report much about Canada and New Zealand respectively? The comparison I'm drawing is that UK news does not report anything about the Republic of Ireland unless it's IRA related, despite how close they are from mainland Britain. Our weather forecasts never show any weather over Eire! It's like they don't exist.


Of course that's what happens. Does France broadcast weather for the UK and Germany? I don't think so. Even Hong Kong only broadcasts waether for itself (albeit it does have an international weather broadcast).

But no, the best thing to come out of independence and we've reached the TL;DR part - new flags.


No. The College of Arms has said there would be no change to the flag, as the Queen would remain Head of State for Scotland. The only way I see the flag changing is somehow the Scottish Crown going north with Scotland, and that's not going to happen.

#4 Selena

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 02:06 PM

Nah, we never hear about Canadian news. Unless it involves us somehow.

 

 

 

 

Granted, I'm a filthy foreigner, so my views are probably a bit different, but.... 

 

I understand the emotional reasons why Scots would want to be independent. History and all that, plus some different philosophies. But it's hard for me to understand why it's a good idea as far as practicality goes. The UK is already a relatively small (if powerful) country. So hacking off the northern part just seems illogical. Maybe it's because Scotland is the size of one of our smaller states (Maine), and it's hard to fathom that small section of land being independent. 

 

Would it be fully independent, or would it still be part of the Commonwealth?

 

 

In the rare event you change your flag, you would only be hurting yourself if you didn't find a way to slap that Welsh dragon on there. I know you all make fun of the Welsh, but they've got a dragon!

 

 

 

 

It's just a hunch, but I think they'd be looking more towards Scandinavia for a model of their society rather than the USA as Britain seems to do. 

 

 

 

All this time, we've been patiently waiting.... waiting for the day Viking influence is welcomed back in Britain. 

 

First we re-establish our hold on Norðreyjar. Then we bring back the Danelaw.

 

 

 

New Viking Scottish flag:

 

mbe2Xz-BFahXwpEpPCjFmJg.jpg



#5 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 02:40 PM

Would it be fully independent, or would it still be part of the Commonwealth?


Uh, independence and being part of the Commonwealth are two different things. India is independent, but it is also a part of the Commonwealth.

Scotland is already a part of the Commonwealth. I doubt that'd change with independence.

#6 Alastair

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:09 PM

I don't think they'll vote to leave as I'm sceptical it would be a profitable move...




 

 

 

I have been thinking about the issue of profitability/wealth, particularly in light of the survey this weekend which shows a narrow lead for the 'yes' to independence vote. Until very recently I did not consider it remotely likely that the 'yes' vote would win as, in terms of GDP, the nation would almost certainly become far poorer. However, is GDP (always) an appropriate measure of a nation's wealth? Take Cuba for example. I suspect that if Cuba abandoned its socialist welfare programme, embraced free market capitalism and benefitted from free trade agreements with the USA its GDP would rise. On the other hand the currently excellent levels of education and state provided healthcare would (probably) suffer - the average Cuban would experience a lower standard of living*. The Scots in favour of independence may be thinking along similar lines. Regardless of whether the nation is technically poorer or not the majority of people could benefit from a more equal distribution of wealth.

 

 

*I am not blinding myself to Cuba's history of oppressing minority groups (though I do attribute these evils to bigotry, rather than socialism). The Scandinavian model would be an equally valid comparisson.



#7 Egann

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:39 PM

Here in the states we don't hear NUTHIN. I mean I knew there were motions for Scottish independence, but that's because I'm a freak of nature former political world-events competition speaker.

 

Global events? Ha! Our media makes a tiny 3-person airplane depressurizing and crashing off Jamaica breaking news. I think our media doesn't know a global events story unless it involves shooty-bits directed at someone who could be called American.

 

I don't even know where to begin on FORMING an opinion, either.



#8 Selena

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:21 PM

 

Would it be fully independent, or would it still be part of the Commonwealth?


Uh, independence and being part of the Commonwealth are two different things. India is independent, but it is also a part of the Commonwealth.

Scotland is already a part of the Commonwealth. I doubt that'd change with independence.

 

 

I know that. I guess I just forgot to specify. I meant to ask if it'd still be a Commonwealth realm -- like Canada and Australia. Still part of the Crown. I was confused, because from the limited amount I've heard about the situation, I wasn't sure if Scotland was going for:

 

* Commonwealth realm independence (i.e.: Canada)

* Commonwealth nation independence (i.e.: India)

* Balls to the wall Boston Tea Party independence (i.e.: US)



#9 Jasi

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:20 PM

I disagree with Lena and Egann, I feel like we hear about Canada a fair amount—their tar sands stuff, their Toronto mayor hah, and plenty of comparisons with healthcare and human rights stuff. Then again my perception might be skewed—I know a lot of Canadians through my field (since America is where all the good schools for music theory are and so all the Canadians come down here for it), so maybe when I see stuff in the news it catches my eye more than it otherwise would since I've heard them talking about it in conversation.

 

I'm definitely interested in the independence vote! It seems to make sense since Ireland broke off long ago. Obviously it'd be hard for Scotland at first but I imagine they'd consider it growing pains as part of a more long-term good. But I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Would a flag for Scotland likely involve their coat of arms? That's pretty classic looking.



#10 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 02:09 PM

I know that. I guess I just forgot to specify. I meant to ask if it'd still be a Commonwealth realm -- like Canada and Australia. Still part of the Crown. I was confused, because from the limited amount I've heard about the situation, I wasn't sure if Scotland was going for:
 
* Commonwealth realm independence (i.e.: Canada)
* Commonwealth nation independence (i.e.: India)
* Balls to the wall Boston Tea Party independence (i.e.: US)


The SNP party line is that the Queen would remain Head of State, so the SNP are hoping for Commonwealth Realm independence. They're also hoping for monetary union with the UK, despite the fact that we're so adverse to monetary union with other nations that we stayed out of the Euro. In fact, the Treasury doesn't want monetary union with Scotland.

That's why when the markets started trading again this weekend after the news about the Yes campaign's lead, everything went all pear shaped.

There's too much uncertainty: Scotland will have to reapply for European Union status, the currency question is still unresolved because the SNP doesn't appear to have a Plan B and there's a border question too (will the Scottish border have to be manned due to different immigration policies?). Banks are preparing for a potential bank run.
 

Would a flag for Scotland likely involve their coat of arms? That's pretty classic looking.


They don't need to create a new flag. They already have one: St Andrew's Saltire.

ded4550a.png

#11 Veteran

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 03:59 PM

I missed the comment from the College of Arms about there being no new flag. That's disappointing. I'm calling it now though that if we do split, a demand will rise for a new flag especially from the Welshies. Although, a bottom-half background of green behind two red crosses? Not pretty.



#12 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 04:05 PM

I missed the comment from the College of Arms about there being no new flag. That's disappointing. I'm calling it now though that if we do split, a demand will rise for a new flag especially from the Welshies. Although, a bottom-half background of green behind two red crosses? Not pretty.


Might not be so bad if we went with St David's Flag, which is a gold cross on a sable field.

The combination looks pretty good.

_71533812_350636.jpg

Edited by Wolf O'Donnell, 10 September 2014 - 04:06 PM.


#13 Egann

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 04:23 PM

And suddenly I hear a voice in the back of my head saying "target acquired."



#14 Selena

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:08 PM

MORE DRAGONS. 



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Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:56 PM

I'm on board with that, Wolf. Very nice!

MORE DRAGONS. 


But it's a Welsh dragon. 'Welsh' to 'dragon is like 'Timothy Dalton' to 'James Bond'.

#16 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 12:55 AM

Timothy Dalton was a fantastic James Bond, thank you very much.

 

Unless I'm completely missing the point of your post.

 

I guess I should weigh in on the actual issue at hand, here. I'll admit, I don't know too much about what's going on, but considering all the factors that one must take into account when becoming your own country, especially in today's world and especially with all the economical problems that the world is sharing, this seems like it could become a very bad situation. But hey, if those Scots know what they are doing, then that's that.


Edited by TheAvengerLever, 12 September 2014 - 12:58 AM.


#17 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

I'm on board with that, Wolf. Very nice!


Not my creation. It belongs to James Knight. Got it off the BBC new website.

And suddenly I hear a voice in the back of my head saying "target acquired."


Personally, I prefer having St David's Cross on top of St Patrick's Saltire, rather than having St Patrik's Saltire on top of St David's Cross.

Mind you, that made the flag look so similar to the current Union flag that I could barely tell the difference between the thumbnail of the new flag and a thumbnail of the old flag

MORE DRAGONS. 


A dragon on the same flag as St George's Cross? That makes no sense!

You might as well put the hammer and sickle on the Stars and Stripes.

#18 Veteran

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 03:55 PM

Timothy Dalton was a fantastic James Bond, thank you very much.

Dalton was in good Bond movies but he was not a good Bond. :P

He was maybe better than Craig though.

#19 Kwicky Koala

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 04:11 PM

New Scottish flag should incorporate Sean Connery somehow.

New British flag meanwhile can feature Roger Moore (England) Timothy Dalton (Wales) and Pierce Brosnan (Ireland).

Australia has a little British flag in the corner, but the majority is now the face of George Lazenby.

#20 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 08:16 AM

New Scottish flag should incorporate Sean Connery somehow.

New British flag meanwhile can feature Roger Moore (England) Timothy Dalton (Wales) and Pierce Brosnan (Ireland).

Australia has a little British flag in the corner, but the majority is now the face of George Lazenby.


You monster! How will children be able to draw the flags now?

#21 JRPomazon

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 05:55 PM

New Scottish flag should incorporate Sean Connery somehow.
 

 

http://yourethemannowdog.com/



#22 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 07:25 AM

It just occurred to me that there doesn't appear to be a single Scot on this forum.

#23 Kwicky Koala

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:49 PM

New Scottish flag should incorporate Sean Connery somehow.

New British flag meanwhile can feature Roger Moore (England) Timothy Dalton (Wales) and Pierce Brosnan (Ireland).

Australia has a little British flag in the corner, but the majority is now the face of George Lazenby.


You monster! How will children be able to draw the flags now?

Why, with great difficulty! :mehehe:

#24 Veteran

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 12:05 PM

_77692242_yesdejected.jpg

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#25 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:05 AM

Logically, this should have been the outcome regardless, because neither Yes or No would have gained a considerable margin meaning not one side could comfortably say (despite what the media have said) that they had won by a considerable margin. If not one side has won, then the status quo should be maintained.

Now let's change the flag anyway to remove all Scottish elements from it and put Margaret Thatcher on our money. j/k

Edited by Wolf O'Donnell, 20 September 2014 - 09:06 AM.





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