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Demise and side villains (i.e. Vaati, Malladus)


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#1 ganonlord6000

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:56 PM

So we know that at the end of SS, Demise casts a curse on Link and Zelda's descendants, saying that the incarnation of his hatred will forever follow them. We know that this is definitely referring to Ganon, but what about villains in other games like Vaati, Bellum, Malladus, etc.? Could they be a part of Demise's curse as well? Here are my thoughts on each of them.

Vaati: Possibly. He is the only Zelda villain other than Ganon to appear across multiple eras. He could have been the first incarnation of Demise's hatred, but the one thing that seems to prevent that is the fact that his existence overlaps OOT Ganon and he dies in the same game FSA Ganon first appears in. That is unless Demise's hatred can take multiple forms at once with Ganon containing most of it.

Bellum: Probably not. At best, he was either one of the demons in Demise's group or is just some random descendant of him.

Malladus: I have two theories regarding him. 1) he was the next incarnation of Demise's hatred after Ganon died in TWW. Depends on when ST's backstory occurred.
2) He was one of the demons in Demise's army, probably his next in line given the fact that his title is also demon king. Given the fact that ST's development began and ended within SS's and Aonuma was involved in both of them, I doubt it was a coincidence. When Demise was defeated, he probably made a break for it, stole Demise's title or inherited it, and was eventually sealed by the spirits mentioned in ST.

Majora: Either the same as Bellum or something completely unrelated.

Dethel: Same as above, though there is the chance that he and Bellum are one and the same given their similar appearances and stories.

What are your thoughts on these guys?



#2 JRPomazon

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:54 PM

Bellum: No.
Malladus: Have not played ST so I honestly cannot say
Majora: Majora's personality makes me believe that he is not related to Demise. Majora has a completely different mind set than a standard Zelda Big Bad, focusing more on destruction for destruction's sake rather than Ganon who wants power or Demise who is fueled by hate. In short, he's the Kefka of the Zelda franchise. Also, he and Ganon exist in the same period so I'd wager no.
Dethel: Unrelated to Demise's line, but perhaps you're on to something with his connection with Bellum. PH and LA are similar in a few ways so it wouldn't surprise me. They are similar villians, the ones you don't know about until the very end, or only know so much about until it's time to fight them.
Vaati: I honestly don't know. Frankly, I want to say no due to Vaati and Ganon being alive at the same time but I'm not completely ruling it out.

Edited by JRPomazon, 07 January 2012 - 02:08 AM.


#3 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:03 PM

I don't think they are, really. Only Ganon(dorf) bears any resemblance or symbolic connection to Demise, and there's been demon lords and monsters and villins even before Demise was defeated by Link. Furthermore, none of the other villains lust for the Triforce as Ganondorf does.

#4 D~N

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:41 AM

Personally, I think it's an automatic "no" if the villian in question doesn't refer to both Link and Zelda specifically in the game in question. Demise placed the curse on the two of them, so they both should have to be there for Demise to be even considered, in my opinion. Not only do Link and Zelda both have to exist, but they should be relevant to the game and to the enemy's interests. Only then can we consider if that bad-guy is Demise's hatred.

#5 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:23 AM

Which pretty much narrows the list to Vaati, Bellum, Malladus.

#6 FDL

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:20 AM

I'm not even sure Demise's curse still applies to the adult timeline. I think both Bellum and Malladus seem to be villains to other groups of people first and foremost which Link and Zelda almost stumbled upon and ended up foiling, and the ending of TWW has that whole "moving on from the past" and "ending the destined relationship between the three Triforce bearers" theme going on. I think it'd make sense with TWW Link being a new hero and King Hyrule's wish that Demise's curse would be a relic of the past alongside everything else.

#7 CloneWarrior

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:26 AM

In order for Malladus and Demise to be reincarnations of Ganon, they'd have to be incredibly young when their backstories happen, which I severely doubt.

#8 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 03:01 PM

I'm not even sure Demise's curse still applies to the adult timeline. I think both Bellum and Malladus seem to be villains to other groups of people first and foremost which Link and Zelda almost stumbled upon and ended up foiling, and the ending of TWW has that whole "moving on from the past" and "ending the destined relationship between the three Triforce bearers" theme going on. I think it'd make sense with TWW Link being a new hero and King Hyrule's wish that Demise's curse would be a relic of the past alongside everything else.


I agree. In my opinion, King Daphne's Wish, along with the Master Sword's implied destruction, destroyed Demise and his influence forever. All that's left is to clean up the "mess" left over. :P

#9 Masamune

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:25 PM

I sort of love the implications for the defeated timeline. Ganon's victory warps him into a monster and he keeps coming back, less and less like the man he used to be. This may be a result of his botched resurrection in OoX, but eventually he becomes nothing but a mindless monster, existing only as an extension of Demise's curse and not his original goals and intentions. It's tragic in it's own way. Especially since this is the only timeline where Ganon ever succeeds in obtaining the whole Triforce.

Interestingly, Vaati apparently goes through that same process, given that he forgets his own origins. Must be a thing about evil. You eventually forget who you are or why you do what you do.

In any case, I don't think the other villains exist as part of that curse. Dethl was just something inside of the Windfish, not much of a global threat. Majora isn't even from the same world to begin with. Bellum would seem to be precede the events of The Wind Waker, perhaps being some leftover evil from Demise's time. Malladus might be the same, though he's the only one I'd consider a possible reincarnation of Ganon/Demise. But I do like that thought about the King's wish wiping the slate clean.

#10 ganonlord6000

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:23 PM

I'm not even sure Demise's curse still applies to the adult timeline. I think both Bellum and Malladus seem to be villains to other groups of people first and foremost which Link and Zelda almost stumbled upon and ended up foiling, and the ending of TWW has that whole "moving on from the past" and "ending the destined relationship between the three Triforce bearers" theme going on. I think it'd make sense with TWW Link being a new hero and King Hyrule's wish that Demise's curse would be a relic of the past alongside everything else.


I agree. In my opinion, King Daphne's Wish, along with the Master Sword's implied destruction, destroyed Demise and his influence forever. All that's left is to clean up the "mess" left over. :P


I don't know. Demise did say the curse was eternal, and all that was destroyed in TWW was Hyrule, which didn't even exist yet when the curse was cast. I don't think we've seen the last of Ganon on the AT.

On a side note, does anyone know if Demise says the same thing in the Japanese version? I'm pretty sure he does, but NOA does have a track record of changing a few words that change the meaning of what is being said (i.e. Ganon's speech about the seal being broken in TWW, the spirit of the Trident in FSA, etc.). Just curious.

#11 SOAP

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:53 PM

I'm not even sure Demise's curse still applies to the adult timeline. I think both Bellum and Malladus seem to be villains to other groups of people first and foremost which Link and Zelda almost stumbled upon and ended up foiling, and the ending of TWW has that whole "moving on from the past" and "ending the destined relationship between the three Triforce bearers" theme going on. I think it'd make sense with TWW Link being a new hero and King Hyrule's wish that Demise's curse would be a relic of the past alongside everything else.


The thing about Bellum (and Vaati) though is they seem interested in Zelda's Force power, which I interpreted as Hylia's power present inside each Zelda's body, in very much the same way Imprisoned is single-mindedly after Zelda's sleeping body in SS. If they were incarnations of Demise, it would make sense that they were attracted to the same power that revived Demise in SS. In the case of Bellum though, he just appears to be some sort of life force drainer who feeds on anyone and Tetra just turned out be excellent alternative. Vaati might still be a reincarnation of Demise though. He could be sorta of a first experiment, starting with a small Minish who happened to have a lot of angst. But ultimately the experiment failed and he went mad, kidnapping maidens and forgettig what made him interested in Zelda to begin with. With Ganondorf, Demise seems to get it right this time.

#12 ganonlord6000

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:05 PM


I'm not even sure Demise's curse still applies to the adult timeline. I think both Bellum and Malladus seem to be villains to other groups of people first and foremost which Link and Zelda almost stumbled upon and ended up foiling, and the ending of TWW has that whole "moving on from the past" and "ending the destined relationship between the three Triforce bearers" theme going on. I think it'd make sense with TWW Link being a new hero and King Hyrule's wish that Demise's curse would be a relic of the past alongside everything else.


The thing about Bellum (and Vaati) though is they seem interested in Zelda's Force power, which I interpreted as Hylia's power present inside each Zelda's body, in very much the same way Imprisoned is single-mindedly after Zelda's sleeping body in SS. If they were incarnations of Demise, it would make sense that they were attracted to the same power that revived Demise in SS. In the case of Bellum though, he just appears to be some sort of life force drainer who feeds on anyone and Tetra just turned out be excellent alternative. Vaati might still be a reincarnation of Demise though. He could be sorta of a first experiment, starting with a small Minish who happened to have a lot of angst. But ultimately the experiment failed and he went mad, kidnapping maidens and forgettig what made him interested in Zelda to begin with. With Ganondorf, Demise seems to get it right this time.



Demise's hatred testing things out? That could work. After Vaati lost his memory, most of Demise's hatred probably went "screw this!!" and this resulted in Ganon. And Demise himself isn't reincarnating, it's his hatred.

#13 CloneWarrior

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:31 PM

The thing about Bellum (and Vaati) though is they seem interested in Zelda's Force power, which I interpreted as Hylia's power present inside each Zelda's body, in very much the same way Imprisoned is single-mindedly after Zelda's sleeping body in SS. If they were incarnations of Demise, it would make sense that they were attracted to the same power that revived Demise in SS. In the case of Bellum though, he just appears to be some sort of life force drainer who feeds on anyone and Tetra just turned out be excellent alternative. Vaati might still be a reincarnation of Demise though. He could be sorta of a first experiment, starting with a small Minish who happened to have a lot of angst. But ultimately the experiment failed and he went mad, kidnapping maidens and forgettig what made him interested in Zelda to begin with. With Ganondorf, Demise seems to get it right this time.


The Light Force that Zelda has in Minish Cap was brought to Hyrule by the Minish. It has nothing to do with Hylia.

#14 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:35 AM

Also, what evil villain WOULDN'T want that buttload of kickass awesome magical ultra-power?




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