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Ocarina Of Time - Child Ending


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#1 Thanatos-Zero

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:25 AM

Greetings new and old scholars of the Zelda lore. I had been discussing on the Zelda Universe Forum for months now to which point of time was Link send back by Zelda.
Was it before he ever meet Zelda? Or was it before he draw the Master Sword?

For those who don't understand the OoT Child Ending

From my point of view I came to the conclusion, that Link was send back in time, before he ever meet with Zelda.

1. The intention of Adult Zelda.

ありがとう リンク… あなたの力で ガノンドロフは 闇の世界に 封印されました。 これで この世界も ふたたび 平和な時を 刻み始めるでしょう。
これまでの 悲劇は すべて 私の あやまちです… おのれの 未熟さを かえりみず、 聖地を 制御しようとし… さらに あなたまで この争いに 巻き込んでしまった。 今こそ 私は その あやまちを 正さねばなりません。 マスターソードを 眠りにつかせ… 「時の扉」を 閉ざすのです。
けれど… その時、時を旅する道も 閉ざされてしまいます…
リンク、 オカリナを 私に… 今の私なら、賢者として この 時のオカリナで あなたを 元の時代に 帰してあげられます。
ハイラルに 平和が戻る時… それが… 私たちの 別れの時なのです…ね。
さあ 帰りなさい リンク 失われた時を 取り戻すために! あなたが いるべきところへ… あなたが あるべき姿で…
ありがとう… リンク… さようなら…
Thank you, Link… Thanks to your power, Ganondorf has been sealed in the world of darkness. Now this world will once again begin a time of peace.
All of the tragedy up to this point has been my fault… I attempted to control the Sacred Land without considering my inexperience… I even got you involved in this conflict. Now I must correct that mistake. Lay the Master Sword to sleep… and close the “Door of Time”.
But… When you do, the road to travel in time will also close…
Link, Give the ocarina to me… Right now, I, as a sage, can return you to your original era with this Ocarina of Time.
When peace returns to Hyrule… That’s when… We must part…right?
Now, return, Link. So that you can regain the lost time! To where you should be… To the form you should have…
Thank you… Link… Farewell…

Thank you, Link... Thanks to you, Ganondorf has been sealed inside the Evil Realm! Thus, peace will once again reign in this world...for a time.
All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time...
However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed...
Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.
When peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye...
Now, go home, Link. Regain your lost time! Home… where you are supposed to be... the way you are supposed to be...
Thank you... Link... Good-bye....

Instead to tell Link to go back in the time by his own, to the very moment before he draw the Master Sword, Zelda wants to make up for her mistakes by involving him in her plans in the first place. To be noted should be that she send Link to his "original era".

2. After Ganondorf left Hyrule Castle to haunt Zelda, the security was beefed up to a point, which made it Link impossible to pass the soldier in order to get into the Courtyard.

3. Link lacks the Goron Bracelet, which indicates that he never played Saria's Song in front of Darunia or that he never visited the Gorons on that timeline. He even looks at his arms.

4. The way Zelda reacts, is the same as she did for the very first meeting. After that she greets you always, when you return to her, until you get the third and last Sacred Stone.

5. The circumstances after the third stone. Zelda was chased and was forced into hiding.

ゼルダ様のオカリナを 持つ少年… やはり、来てくれたか… 私は シーカー族の インパ。 ゼルダ様の 乳母であり、闇の神殿を守る 賢者でもある…
我々 シーカー族は、代々 ハイラル王家の 下僕として 仕えてきた… しかし…
七年前の あの日… ガノンドロフの 突然の襲撃… ハイラル城は まもなく 陥落した。
ガノンドロフの 目的は 聖地へのカギの一つ… 王家の秘宝 時のオカリナだったのだ。
私の役目は、ゼルダ様を ガノンドロフの 手の届かぬ場所へ お連れすることだった…
Boy who has Zelda-sama’s ocarina… So you indeed came… I am Impa of the Sheikah tribe. I am Zelda-sama’s nursemaid and the Sage who guards the Darkness Temple…
We of the Sheikah tribe have served as the servants of the Hyrule Royal Family for generations… But…
On that day seven years ago… When Ganondorf suddenly attacked… Hyrule Castle fell after a short time.
Ganondorf’s aim was one of the keys to the Sacred Land… the secret treasure of the Royal Family, the Ocarina of Time.
My duty was to take Zelda-sama to a place where Ganondorf could not reach her…

The boy with the noble Zelda's Ocarina...As I expected, you have come. I am Impa, one of the Sheikah. I am Princess Zelda's caretaker, and I am also the Sage who guards the Shadow Temple.
We Sheikah have served the royalty of Hyrule from generation to generation as attendants. However...
On that day seven years ago, Ganondorf suddenly attacked... and Hyrule Castle surrendered after a short time.
Ganondorf's target was one of the keys to the Sacred Realm...the hidden treasure of the Royal Family...The Ocarina of Time!
My duty bound me to take Zelda out of Ganondorf's reach.

Since she said that Hyrule Castle fell after a short time, it wouldn't be a impossible feat for Ganondorf to exterminate the rest of the soldiers, based on the appearance of him when he came unharmed out of the city.
As for Impa's duty to keep away Zelda from Ganondorf's reach, was one of her duties. Therefore even if Zelda had for the moment the idea to return to the castle, Impa wouldn't have allowed it, since the Castle proved for Ganondorf no obstacle to overcome.

6. The interim between OoT and MM were several months, in which Zelda and Link spend their days peacefully together.
The execution of Ganondorf was several years later.


However there are also some points against them.

- Zelda tells him to close the Door of Time and to lay the Master Sword to rest.

- If he would be send back in time before he ever met Zelda, he would be entombed alive in the Master Sword Chamber.

- The shield you have at the end with you. If you have never collected a Hylia Shield during the game and it appears at the ending, it would render the Goron Bracelet as ameaning less bug.


I want to know, which theory is the mostlogical scenario, without to cause to many contradictions.

Edited by Thanatos-Zero, 29 October 2010 - 09:25 AM.


#2 SOAP

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:01 AM

I thought TP finally laid that debate to rest once and for all.

Conceivably, the Door of Time could have been opened from the inside, either by the power of the Ocarina of Time, or some other mechanism.

Personally though, I think he's returned to the moment he touches the Master Sword so that the Door of Time was already opened, but the pathway to the Sacred Realm wasn't. To an outside observer, such as Ganondorf stalking Link in the shadows perhaps HINT-HINT, it would appear as though Link placed the final spiritual stone on the pedestal, played a diddy on the Ocarina, opened the Door of Time, touched a blade hidden the back chamber, and then went home or whatever. Without the path opened to the Sacred Realm, Ganondorf plans are thwarted, at least for the moment. Hence he goes into hiding. After several months, Zelda probably returns to the Castle once the threat of Ganondorf died down and the second meeting in the courtyard could happen then. Just because one scene immediately follows the other doesn't necessarily mean Link went straight to see Zelda after leaving the Temple of Time. Though that's kinda the impression you get from the ending though. TP however implies that Ganondorf never accomplished his mission of entering Sacred Realm, hence the Sages' collective dismay when he has the ToP anyways.

#3 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:33 PM

What Soap said, every word.

#4 Showsni

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 04:16 PM

I have him sent back to the last time he drew the sword, like all the other time travel in OoT. But then, I put the "adult" and "child" bits of OoT on the same timeline. And have TP off on its own as a what if kind of thing.

Single timeliner forever!


#5 Average Gamer

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:54 PM

I believe that Link was sent back to a time before he ever met Zelda. If Zelda sent Link back to a point where the Spiritual Stone events had already happened and Link was known to Ganon, she wouldn't really be making up for anything. Link would have still been dragged into Zelda's plans, and Ganon and his minions could hunt Link down to claim vengeance, forcing him to live on the run and in fear for his life. By sending Link to a point before he first met her, Zelda would be truly living up to her word and correcting the mistake of getting Link involved in her plans.

これまでの 悲劇は すべて 私の あやまちです… おのれの 未熟さを かえりみず、 聖地を 制御しようとし… さらに あなたまで この争いに 巻き込んでしまった。 今こそ 私は その あやまちを 正さねばなりません。 マスターソードを 眠りにつかせ… 「時の扉」を 閉ざすのです。
All of the tragedy up to this point has been my fault… I attempted to control the Sacred Land without considering my inexperience… I even got you involved in this conflict. Now I must correct that mistake.


This would also explain how Link accessed the courtyard and why Zelda was terrified to see him, as the castle's security wouldn't have been increased yet and he would have been a complete stranger to her. I also find this scenario to best fit with what Aonuma said about Link and Zelda's conversation sending their relationship with Ganon in an entirely new direction. If Link told Zelda to abandon her plans, Ganon would have been unable to exploit the children and his own plans would have failed. In time, he would have been exposed and arrested, matching up with Aonuma's comment about the execution occurring several years after OoT's CT ending. Link would have also failed to be a blip on the radar, allowing him to freely live out his life and make his own choices. It explains why Ganon didn't comment on TP Link's appearance or tunic as well.

There's more I could say, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Edited by Average Gamer, 30 October 2010 - 10:37 PM.


#6 SOAP

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 07:00 PM

I believe that Link was sent back to a time before he ever met Zelda. If Zelda sent Link back to a point where the Spiritual Stone events had already happened and Link was known to Ganon, she wouldn't really be making up for anything.


That's an extremely good point.

It explains why Ganon didn't comment on TP Link's appearance or tunic as well.


This too. I didn't even think to consider that fact.

The reason I place it later on though is when Link is sent back in time, he's sent back to his younger body which is in the Temple of Time, much like all the other times he goes back. If he was sent back way before he even met Zelda, why not send him back to his bed in Kokiri Village when he first wakes up? Was his younger body snatched up from Kokiri Village and transported to the Temple? Or was a copy manifested out of thin air, *making it two Links running around Hyrule? In either case, why does Link step back from the sword as if he just touched it if he's being sent back to before he even entered the Temple and the last thing he was doing in the future was standing in front of Zelda? Of course, all of these I guess are just minor flaws and can be handwaved away, still I prefer theories that make me ask the least amount of questions. The Door of Time being open when he returns is actually not a big deal to me though.

My second reason for placing his return within the split second after he crossed the Door of Time but before the Sacred Realm was opened is because this is the most pivotal moment that set the course of Ganon's reign in OoT's Dark Future, other than Link and Zelda's courtyard meeting. This way may not be as clean a slate as future Zelda erasing their initial meeting, but this way Link's involvement in thwarting Ganondorf is bigger than a mere whistleblower. Link would still be able to regain his lost time free of Ganondorf since the entrance to Sacred Realm is never opened, perhaps leading Ganondorf to assume either Link was not the chosen one and the Sword rejected him, or that whole legend about the Temple of Time leading to Sacred Realm was just a myth. Either way Ganondorf would then flee and go into hiding since his plans are essentially foiled and he's a wanted man for having recently attacked Hyrule Castle making him public enemy number one. Harassing a boy from the forest wouldn't exactly be high on his priority list.

#7 Thanatos-Zero

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 08:21 PM

Of course, all of these I guess are just minor flaws and can be handwaved away, still I prefer theories that make me ask the least amount of questions. The Door of Time being open when he returns is actually not a big deal to me though.

That is my goal, to create a theory and scenario, which rises the most less questions.
Also have you taken a look into the link, I have posted in my first post?


As for Ganondorf's actions in the Child Timeline, I have assumed that he would still try to raise his reputation in order to gain more influence on the royal family and the king, in order to gain the keys for the sacred realm. However since Link and Zelda decided to go a different way to handle Ganondorf by doing nothing, he later would become impatient in the following years and started to wreak havok around Hyrule to finally get what he wants. In the end he was subdued and and sentenced to death due execution, but it failed because the Triforce of Power protected him unknown to his knowledge. This the way how I have imagined for the "Send back in time before he ever meet Zelda in the first place" Theory.
Here the actual developer quote.

–When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

–And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...



However this part confuses me, because of the wording.

It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be


Who decided it? The Sages? Link and Zelda? Or was it the intention of the developers?
I want a retranslation of the quote, if possible.

#8 FDL

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:47 PM

While I'm still not necessarily of the opinion he needs to have been sent back before any of his child timeline heroics including drawing the Master Sword and so on, as I think the "Triforce's power let him become an Evil King" line doesn't necessarily imply the second he got it he could take over Hyrule in an instant, if I have to choose between the two mentioned here, I'd go with SOAP's idea. I think it fits much better that way overall. It explains why Link is still a storied hero of Hyrule's history(which I think is definitely important and I don't like the idea that it's not) as well as the points already mentioned. But as I said, I'm still not sure I'd agree with the idea that Ganondorf getting the Triforce and knowing he has it=definite bad end, nor do I believe the Gods were literally playing a divine prank at all.

#9 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:33 PM

1) Link, from the timeline's perspective, lifts the Master Sword, and then sets it down.
2) Zelda, having received a vision of changed history, returns to the castle when she normally wouldn't.
3) She meets Link, who has the Triforce of Courage, which causes the Triforce to split.
4) "Yo dawg Ganondorf's rapin everybody out dere, we gon' find you."
5) King sees Triforce mark, gets the Sages to do that sealing business.
6) "...oh, wait, shit, I have a Triforce too? lol time2fuckupSages."
7) Rest of the story.

I don't see what's so hard about this.

#10 FDL

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:18 PM

Was that at me, MPS?

#11 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:42 PM

No, at generally everyone.

#12 FDL

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:53 PM

I see. Regardless, I definitely see that course of events as possible.

#13 Average Gamer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:36 PM

The reason I place it later on though is when Link is sent back in time, he's sent back to his younger body which is in the Temple of Time, much like all the other times he goes back. If he was sent back way before he even met Zelda, why not send him back to his bed in Kokiri Village when he first wakes up? Was his younger body snatched up from Kokiri Village and transported to the Temple? Or was a copy manifested out of thin air, *making it two Links running around Hyrule?


My stance is that the Master Sword chamber in the Temple of Time was the point most connected to time, so Link was simply sent there.

In either case, why does Link step back from the sword as if he just touched it if he's being sent back to before he even entered the Temple and the last thing he was doing in the future was standing in front of Zelda?


Link never actually steps back from the sword as if he touched it. When Link is sent to the past, he is simply standing in front of the Pedestal of Time with his hands by his sides.

My second reason for placing his return within the split second after he crossed the Door of Time but before the Sacred Realm was opened is because this is the most pivotal moment that set the course of Ganon's reign in OoT's Dark Future, other than Link and Zelda's courtyard meeting. This way may not be as clean a slate as future Zelda erasing their initial meeting, but this way Link's involvement in thwarting Ganondorf is bigger than a mere whistleblower.


Perhaps, but Link did ultimately become a key figure in Ganon's plans, so Ganon or his minions might try to hunt down Link in revenge for failing to open the Sacred Realm. If Link was sent to a point before he ever met Zelda, he'd stay under the radar and thus wouldn't draw any negative attention.

Also, if Ganon had already revealed himself to be an enemy of Hyrule, what would Link and Zelda's second talk accomplish? Aonuma stated that the conversation is what completely changed their relationship with Ganon, but if they spoke after the Spiritual Stone incidents, I really don't see what they could have done.

1) Link, from the timeline's perspective, lifts the Master Sword, and then sets it down.


However, judging from the instances in which Link is surrounded by blue light, he appears to essentially be paralyzed until the light fades. This is true even when Rauru is simply teleporting Link from the Chamber of Sages to the Temple of Time after their first meeting. With this in mind, if Link was sent back to a point immediately after he drew the Master Sword, isn't it possible that the blade would just paralyze him and do its thing the second Zelda's spell was done, thus repeating history?

2) Zelda, having received a vision of changed history, returns to the castle when she normally wouldn't.


Have you had that idea for a while, or is it something you came up with after reading that ZU thread? I really don't see why the timeline split would give Zelda a new vision, and the area around the Castle still seems to be dangerous after Ganon's betrayal.

3) She meets Link, who has the Triforce of Courage, which causes the Triforce to split.
4) "Yo dawg Ganondorf's rapin everybody out dere, we gon' find you."
5) King sees Triforce mark, gets the Sages to do that sealing business.
6) "...oh, wait, shit, I have a Triforce too? lol time2fuckupSages."
7) Rest of the story.


While I don't necessarily agree with all of these points, your theory is definitely one of the most reasonable ones I have seen. One question though; in your theory, would Link suspect that the CT Triforce split gave Ganon the ToP? I'm asking this because Link knew firsthand that a ToP-wielding Ganon was immortal, so I don't see why he would have decided upon an execution.

as I think the "Triforce's power let him become an Evil King" line doesn't necessarily imply the second he got it he could take over Hyrule in an instant,


Various quotes in the game state that several things happened on "That day seven years ago." It seems to be implied that the day everyone speaks of was the same day, and two of the events that happened back then were Ganon entering the Sacred Realm and conquering Hyrule.

#14 Aiden

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:15 PM

4) "Yo dawg Ganondorf's rapin everybody out dere, we gon' find you."


He's climin' in yo' castles, he's snatchin' your princess up...

#15 FDL

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:28 AM

Various quotes in the game state that several things happened on "That day seven years ago." It seems to be implied that the day everyone speaks of was the same day, and two of the events that happened back then were Ganon entering the Sacred Realm and conquering Hyrule.


The references to "that day seven years ago" are pretty much about Ganondorf revealing himself to be a traitor, not about him taking over Hyrule. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember it ever referencing that, whereas Link is shown doing quite a few things after Ganondorf's initial kidnapping attempt and The Wind Waker mentions he conquered Hyrule with an army as opposed to Falcon Punching the castle and it's king the day he got the Triforce.

Not in the mood for a big debate on this, but I honestly don't agree with a lot of the logic behind what makes it "obvious" or a safe bet that Link was sent that far back in time. I guess it's why it's an argument I've taken to involving myself with as often as I have.

Edited by FDL, 03 November 2010 - 12:30 AM.





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