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#1 SOAP

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 03:52 AM

Has anyone heard of this timeline? Seems weird.

http://zeldatimeline.com/

And before anyone accuses me of stealing this off of ZI, yes I did. Sue me! :P
But it's interesting and dammit we ain't talking about anything else.

#2 Nerushi

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:57 AM

Kinda bland to make a whole website dedicated to a one single image... Particulary since its regarding a subject such as the Zelda timeline. What makes that website so interesting is the anonymity I guess.

Regarding the timeline, its quite good actually. Those note seem to reflect quite a lot of theorizing and it does seem like its been collected from what is probably years of Zelda communities theorizing.
His/her final timeline is like mine, except that I have TMC-FS/FSA pre-OoT by preference.

OoT starting at 394 seem kind of random though. Also noted that he/she states that it was the Zelda in FSA that called Ganondorf a "desert nomad", while it was actually the Red maiden. :whistle: I think that whole statement was faulty actually.

Edited by Nerushi, 26 May 2010 - 08:57 AM.


#3 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:18 PM

Pretty badass all around. Only problem is that the Oracle games don't work as a sequel to LTTP, because not only does Oracles Link not possess the ability to use the Triforce, but Zelda doesn't recognize him.

Also, lol@FSA Ganon sealed in the Sacred Realm.

#4 Pinecove

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:09 PM

394 thing I'm pretty sure comes from assumptions based on Windfall island and Kakariko along with a gravestone.

I'm actually a huge fan of this "language shift" idea.

#5 Person

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:57 AM

The excuse "the hat was for a possible sequel" is stupid as all get-out. When the game was designed as a prequel, it doesn't need a "possible sequel," especially considering that it had two already. The only "evidence" seems to be this language shift idea, which is stupid, really. There's no reason for basing the plot of a game on minor details like what script the books are written in. And if we want to get all anal about it, the graveyard in TP had TWW Hylian on the graves, so the language predates the timeline split, thereby proving absolutely nothing about TMC's timeline placement.

#6 SOAP

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 03:34 AM

Kinda bland to make a whole website dedicated to a one single image... Particulary since its regarding a subject such as the Zelda timeline. What makes that website so interesting is the anonymity I guess.


I actually like it that way. It's unconventional format and anonymity makes it all the more intriguiging. If it was some regular text and pictures, it would just another Zelda article on yet another Zelda fansite. Who would want to read that for the nth millionth time?


Pretty badass all around. Only problem is that the Oracle games don't work as a sequel to LTTP, because not only does Oracles Link not possess the ability to use the Triforce, but Zelda doesn't recognize him.

Also, lol@FSA Ganon sealed in the Sacred Realm.


Personally that never made sense to me. The game was advertised as Link's return, in the opening scene Link is riding Epona and when we last saw him, he was riding Epona at the end of MM, and to add to the confusion the art style was strikingly simmilar to ALttP and used LA styled graphics. That and the fact he just waltz into Hyrule castle where Hyrule most sacred treasure was kept and as far as we know, no one stops him? Seperately none of these mean anything (except for Link walking into Hyrule Castle he owned the place WTF?) but added together it seemed like this was the return of a previous Link (possibly OoT Link or ALttP Link), but that all was ripped to shreds when Zelda acted she never met Link before. Even before that, NPC's in both games talked to Link about Zelda like he had never even heard of her which makes it seem like he wasn't from Hyrule at all, which actually....ACTUALLY makes the fact that Link walking into Hyrule Castle like that even more fucked up if he's a foreigner.

394 thing I'm pretty sure comes from assumptions based on Windfall island and Kakariko along with a gravestone.
I'm actually a huge fan of this "language shift" idea.


I heard someone pose a simmilar theory like that around these boards. that was a long time ago though.

The excuse "the hat was for a possible sequel" is stupid as all get-out. When the game was designed as a prequel, it doesn't need a "possible sequel," especially considering that it had two already. The only "evidence" seems to be this language shift idea, which is stupid, really. There's no reason for basing the plot of a game on minor details like what script the books are written in. And if we want to get all anal about it, the graveyard in TP had TWW Hylian on the graves, so the language predates the timeline split, thereby proving absolutely nothing about TMC's timeline placement.

I'm actually of the persuasion that TMC comes between MM and TP, Actually I kinda think it either parallels TWW (as opposed to TP) or it parallels TWW's flood story. And by that extent I'd place FSA before TP as well with Ganon's execution taking place after FSA. (Yeah I know the creators say it's months after OoT but it's better than putting the FS games before OoT). This is the only way I see the language shifts making sense, if you consider them credible.

Edited by SOAP, 27 May 2010 - 03:39 AM.


#7 ganonlord6000

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 11:14 AM


Kinda bland to make a whole website dedicated to a one single image... Particulary since its regarding a subject such as the Zelda timeline. What makes that website so interesting is the anonymity I guess.


I actually like it that way. It's unconventional format and anonymity makes it all the more intriguiging. If it was some regular text and pictures, it would just another Zelda article on yet another Zelda fansite. Who would want to read that for the nth millionth time?


Pretty badass all around. Only problem is that the Oracle games don't work as a sequel to LTTP, because not only does Oracles Link not possess the ability to use the Triforce, but Zelda doesn't recognize him.

Also, lol@FSA Ganon sealed in the Sacred Realm.


Personally that never made sense to me. The game was advertised as Link's return, in the opening scene Link is riding Epona and when we last saw him, he was riding Epona at the end of MM, and to add to the confusion the art style was strikingly simmilar to ALttP and used LA styled graphics. That and the fact he just waltz into Hyrule castle where Hyrule most sacred treasure was kept and as far as we know, no one stops him? Seperately none of these mean anything (except for Link walking into Hyrule Castle he owned the place WTF?) but added together it seemed like this was the return of a previous Link (possibly OoT Link or ALttP Link), but that all was ripped to shreds when Zelda acted she never met Link before. Even before that, NPC's in both games talked to Link about Zelda like he had never even heard of her which makes it seem like he wasn't from Hyrule at all, which actually....ACTUALLY makes the fact that Link walking into Hyrule Castle like that even more fucked up if he's a foreigner.

394 thing I'm pretty sure comes from assumptions based on Windfall island and Kakariko along with a gravestone.
I'm actually a huge fan of this "language shift" idea.


I heard someone pose a simmilar theory like that around these boards. that was a long time ago though.

The excuse "the hat was for a possible sequel" is stupid as all get-out. When the game was designed as a prequel, it doesn't need a "possible sequel," especially considering that it had two already. The only "evidence" seems to be this language shift idea, which is stupid, really. There's no reason for basing the plot of a game on minor details like what script the books are written in. And if we want to get all anal about it, the graveyard in TP had TWW Hylian on the graves, so the language predates the timeline split, thereby proving absolutely nothing about TMC's timeline placement.

I'm actually of the persuasion that TMC comes between MM and TP, Actually I kinda think it either parallels TWW (as opposed to TP) or it parallels TWW's flood story. And by that extent I'd place FSA before TP as well with Ganon's execution taking place after FSA. (Yeah I know the creators say it's months after OoT but it's better than putting the FS games before OoT). This is the only way I see the language shifts making sense, if you consider them credible.


That doesn't work, actually. Putting the FS games between MM and TP doesn't match up with the timeframe between MM and TP.

The excuse "the hat was for a possible sequel" is stupid as all get-out. When the game was designed as a prequel, it doesn't need a "possible sequel," especially considering that it had two already. The only "evidence" seems to be this language shift idea, which is stupid, really. There's no reason for basing the plot of a game on minor details like what script the books are written in. And if we want to get all anal about it, the graveyard in TP had TWW Hylian on the graves, so the language predates the timeline split, thereby proving absolutely nothing about TMC's timeline placement.


I never heard the language change theory before. The hylian language isn't important anyway. And I agree with you on this one, Person. The hat paving way for a possible sequel is pointless. Especially when every single game TMC on up seems to imply that the story begins there. Especially becasue both PH and ST implies that Zelda has the light force. Most of the reasoning on that site are really pointless and have no basis in the game. I even thought that everyone has started to ignore the triumph forks arguement. If it was written in english in the U.S. version of TMC, it would have a very small basis, but it would be a little credible. I never even saw the term triumph forks in TWW. Does anyone know where I could find the term in the game? And I thought we already had a thread where theories like this goes.

And in the oracles, didn't the triforce summon this Link to it? The idea that OOX Link isn't from Hyrule is a good idea. It would be nice if there was more than one Link that wasn't from Hyrule (the only one I know isn't from Hyrule is LOZ/AOL Link) One last thing: LOL NOA advertisements and promotional material. Those aren't even consistant with each other. Let alone the games.

#8 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:35 PM

Personally that never made sense to me. The game was advertised as Link's return, in the opening scene Link is riding Epona and when we last saw him, he was riding Epona at the end of MM, and to add to the confusion the art style was strikingly simmilar to ALttP and used LA styled graphics. That and the fact he just waltz into Hyrule castle where Hyrule most sacred treasure was kept and as far as we know, no one stops him? Seperately none of these mean anything (except for Link walking into Hyrule Castle he owned the place WTF?) but added together it seemed like this was the return of a previous Link (possibly OoT Link or ALttP Link), but that all was ripped to shreds when Zelda acted she never met Link before. Even before that, NPC's in both games talked to Link about Zelda like he had never even heard of her which makes it seem like he wasn't from Hyrule at all, which actually....ACTUALLY makes the fact that Link walking into Hyrule Castle like that even more fucked up if he's a foreigner.


"Return" can be figurative, multiple Links have an Epona, the Link could be LOZ/AOL Link so long as we're positing a return of a previous one, and he was summoned by the Triforce. If you're summoned by the Triforce, I imagine serendipity makes sure nothing keeps you from getting there, what with it being basically God in Your Pocket.

#9 Person

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 12:11 AM

Another thing about the language shift theory is that it presupposes that TWW Hylian is more "modern" than other forms of the language. However, the grave stones written in it in TP are older than the ones written in TP Hylian. That implies the exact opposite idea.

#10 SOAP

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:14 AM

That doesn't work, actually. Putting the FS games between MM and TP doesn't match up with the timeframe between MM and TP.

How so? Ganon was not after the Triforce in FSA that we know of, and he isn't killed, just imprisoned. His execution could have followed afterward when he escaped the Four Sword's seal and presumably goer after the Triforce, The only thing it contradicts is craetor comments stating Ganon's execution was several months after OoT Link went back in time and had that "little chat" with Zelda that altered history. I don't like going against Word of God, but I don't think it directly contradicts it, only that FSA wasn't relevant in explaining how TP connected to OoT. FSA can still bridge the gap since it alters nothing except it moves Ganon's execution down to a later date.

I never even saw the term triumph forks in TWW. Does anyone know where I could find the term in the game?

Tell me, small fry, have you ever heard of
the fabled set of Triumph Forks?


Well, it's right there, my young fry...
On that island... You know... A chart,
showing you where to find them...

Of course, getting it's the hard part.


Outset Island
I heard that beneath the big-head boulder
on top of the hill here on Outset...

...is where the greatest treasures of all,
the golden Triumph Forks, are buried.


But actually, fry, I must have misheard
or something...

'Cause this one guy told me that what was
actually buried beneath that weird rock
was a chart to this shard of something
called Triforce. Whoever heard of that?

That's crazy! There's a big difference
between "Triumph Forks" and "Triforce."

I mean, I think someone intentionally
buried something misleading there.


I've done a fish-fortune on you, small fry,
and from what I can tell, it looks like you're
fated to come to this place many times.

And the keys that control that fate are
none other than the lucky items known as
the Triumph Forks! Yeah, they're some sort
of magical utensils!


If you want to learn more about the
Triumph Forks, talk to that guy, Tingle!
That's what the fish-fortune told me!

Now, I know I may only be a fish, but my
fortune telling is uncannily accurate!
You'd better believe it, small fry!


To name a few. A text dump shows it appears about 11 times in the game. The only way I can imagine you missed it is that you never thought to try to talk to fish that's constantly jumping out of the water nearly everwhere you go in TWW.

And I thought we already had a thread where theories like this goes.

You mean the thread where we make fun of other people's theories? No. Besides, there's more to this forum than just that thread.

And in the oracles, didn't the triforce summon this Link to it? The idea that OOX Link isn't from Hyrule is a good idea. It would be nice if there was more than one Link that wasn't from Hyrule (the only one I know isn't from Hyrule is LOZ/AOL Link)


It's never explicitly mentioned that Link is a foreigner. That's just the impression *I* got when people talked to Link about Hyrule's princess like he's been living under some massive rock. It could also be that they simply did not know he was from Hyrule and he just never corrected them or whatever. Not that I have anything against a non-Hyrulean Link. By the way, Link in TP is said to be not from Hyrule Proper so I guess that's close enough to LoZ/AoL Link.

One last thing: LOL NOA advertisements and promotional material. Those aren't even consistant with each other. Let alone the games.

And? I know that. The only canon answer is that Zelda and Link don't know each other in Oracles. Doesn't mean I find it believable that Link should enter Hyrule Castle like that, hence my annoyance when it turned out he was new Link but oh well.

"Return" can be figurative, multiple Links have an Epona, the Link could be LOZ/AOL Link so long as we're positing a return of a previous one, and he was summoned by the Triforce. If you're summoned by the Triforce, I imagine serendipity makes sure nothing keeps you from getting there, what with it being basically God in Your Pocket.


Which is what I figured anyways. Doesn't make it any less a cop-out but that's the way it happened I guess.

Another thing about the language shift theory is that it presupposes that TWW Hylian is more "modern" than other forms of the language. However, the grave stones written in it in TP are older than the ones written in TP Hylian. That implies the exact opposite idea.


Another raeson why I think the FS games should be before TP.

#11 ganonlord6000

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 11:12 AM


That doesn't work, actually. Putting the FS games between MM and TP doesn't match up with the timeframe between MM and TP.

How so? Ganon was not after the Triforce in FSA that we know of, and he isn't killed, just imprisoned. His execution could have followed afterward when he escaped the Four Sword's seal and presumably goer after the Triforce, The only thing it contradicts is craetor comments stating Ganon's execution was several months after OoT Link went back in time and had that "little chat" with Zelda that altered history. I don't like going against Word of God, but I don't think it directly contradicts it, only that FSA wasn't relevant in explaining how TP connected to OoT. FSA can still bridge the gap since it alters nothing except it moves Ganon's execution down to a later date.

I never even saw the term triumph forks in TWW. Does anyone know where I could find the term in the game?

Tell me, small fry, have you ever heard of
the fabled set of Triumph Forks?


Well, it's right there, my young fry...
On that island... You know... A chart,
showing you where to find them...

Of course, getting it's the hard part.


Outset Island
I heard that beneath the big-head boulder
on top of the hill here on Outset...

...is where the greatest treasures of all,
the golden Triumph Forks, are buried.


But actually, fry, I must have misheard
or something...

'Cause this one guy told me that what was
actually buried beneath that weird rock
was a chart to this shard of something
called Triforce. Whoever heard of that?

That's crazy! There's a big difference
between "Triumph Forks" and "Triforce."

I mean, I think someone intentionally
buried something misleading there.


I've done a fish-fortune on you, small fry,
and from what I can tell, it looks like you're
fated to come to this place many times.

And the keys that control that fate are
none other than the lucky items known as
the Triumph Forks! Yeah, they're some sort
of magical utensils!


If you want to learn more about the
Triumph Forks, talk to that guy, Tingle!
That's what the fish-fortune told me!

Now, I know I may only be a fish, but my
fortune telling is uncannily accurate!
You'd better believe it, small fry!


To name a few. A text dump shows it appears about 11 times in the game. The only way I can imagine you missed it is that you never thought to try to talk to fish that's constantly jumping out of the water nearly everwhere you go in TWW.

And I thought we already had a thread where theories like this goes.

You mean the thread where we make fun of other people's theories? No. Besides, there's more to this forum than just that thread.

And in the oracles, didn't the triforce summon this Link to it? The idea that OOX Link isn't from Hyrule is a good idea. It would be nice if there was more than one Link that wasn't from Hyrule (the only one I know isn't from Hyrule is LOZ/AOL Link)


It's never explicitly mentioned that Link is a foreigner. That's just the impression *I* got when people talked to Link about Hyrule's princess like he's been living under some massive rock. It could also be that they simply did not know he was from Hyrule and he just never corrected them or whatever. Not that I have anything against a non-Hyrulean Link. By the way, Link in TP is said to be not from Hyrule Proper so I guess that's close enough to LoZ/AoL Link.

One last thing: LOL NOA advertisements and promotional material. Those aren't even consistant with each other. Let alone the games.

And? I know that. The only canon answer is that Zelda and Link don't know each other in Oracles. Doesn't mean I find it believable that Link should enter Hyrule Castle like that, hence my annoyance when it turned out he was new Link but oh well.

"Return" can be figurative, multiple Links have an Epona, the Link could be LOZ/AOL Link so long as we're positing a return of a previous one, and he was summoned by the Triforce. If you're summoned by the Triforce, I imagine serendipity makes sure nothing keeps you from getting there, what with it being basically God in Your Pocket.


Which is what I figured anyways. Doesn't make it any less a cop-out but that's the way it happened I guess.

Another thing about the language shift theory is that it presupposes that TWW Hylian is more "modern" than other forms of the language. However, the grave stones written in it in TP are older than the ones written in TP Hylian. That implies the exact opposite idea.


Another raeson why I think the FS games should be before TP.


The triumph forks is only used in one game, isn't it? It is never even mentioned by the main characters. Come to think of it, I do remember some of those quotes. All I remember is trying to shoot those fish! Why is it used to place TMC after TWW? Those quotes only show how useless the supposed TMC reference is. If those fish didn't even know that it was the triforce, or even what it was, there is no way some random book in TMC's library that is only written in Hylian could be refering to the triforce. And regarding the FS games and TP, TP is only 100 years after MM. There has to be at least a few hundred years between TMC and FSA so TMC's Hyrule can turn into the Hyrule from OOT and FSA. And if the old comics count, it mentions that LOZ's Link is indeed a foreigner.

#12 Pinecove

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:39 PM

The triumph forks is only used in one game, isn't it? It is never even mentioned by the main characters. Come to think of it, I do remember some of those quotes. All I remember is trying to shoot those fish! Why is it used to place TMC after TWW? Those quotes only show how useless the supposed TMC reference is. If those fish didn't even know that it was the triforce, or even what it was, there is no way some random book in TMC's library that is only written in Hylian could be refering to the triforce.


Regardless, the book actually made a point to read something rather then repeat the same pattern of characters over and over again like OoT did.

#13 Impossible

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 08:46 PM

Uh, yeah, but it also had a bunch of other books with various references and Easter eggs. Remember that "context" thing?

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:47 PM

Hell, from what I've heard, the Japanese version of TWW didn't even use the name Triumph Forks. the Fishman and everyone else said Bucket and Hose instead. It was supposedly a joke based off of the arranging of the kanji.

#15 SOAP

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 11:18 PM

The books in TMC are probably just an Easter Egg as were the other books titled after the Oracle games. Though it could also be that TMC comes after Oracles as well. Nayru's figurine in TMC says she's a descendant of a long line of priestesses from Labrynna. This could mean that TMC Nayru is a descendant of Nayru from OoA or they're both descendants of the same priestess. It could work either way or you can just ignore it completely as another Easter Egg. Whatever flips your skirt. It should be noted though that in OoA you go far into Labrynna's past and do not meet any of past Nayru, which means it's more feasible to believe OoA Nayru is the original and that TMC Nayru is her descendant, instead of of inventing some hypothetic ancestor that we just don't see in OoA.

Edit: And I still would like to know how FSA between OoT and TP messes up the chronology per se, aside from contradicting creator quotes (which it doesn't do blantantly anyways, read my last post).

Edited by SOAP, 29 May 2010 - 01:18 AM.


#16 ganonlord6000

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 08:02 PM

The books in TMC are probably just an Easter Egg as were the other books titled after the Oracle games. Though it could also be that TMC comes after Oracles as well. Nayru's figurine in TMC says she's a descendant of a long line of priestesses from Labrynna. This could mean that TMC Nayru is a descendant of Nayru from OoA or they're both descendants of the same priestess. It could work either way or you can just ignore it completely as another Easter Egg. Whatever flips your skirt. It should be noted though that in OoA you go far into Labrynna's past and do not meet any of past Nayru, which means it's more feasible to believe OoA Nayru is the original and that TMC Nayru is her descendant, instead of of inventing some hypothetic ancestor that we just don't see in OoA.

Edit: And I still would like to know how FSA between OoT and TP messes up the chronology per se, aside from contradicting creator quotes (which it doesn't do blantantly anyways, read my last post).


Hmmm. OOX-TMC actually makes a little sense, but it is still based on easter eggs. If the oracles are after LOZ/AOL and TMC is after them, that would explain why the geography is messed up in TMC. But still. FSA's trident is probably the ALTTP trident, and it was destroyed during the Ganon fight in ALTTP. At least I think it was because Ganon only has half of it in the second half of the fight and then it seems to be completely gone.

And regarding MM-FSA-TP, there can only be ONE male gerudo every hundred years. Placing FSA before TP means that there are currently two gerudo males. I'm saying 2 because FSA Ganon doesn't seem to be OOT's Ganon. With only a century between OOT ad TP, how would that work out? And Ganon did cause a lot of trouble in FSA. If it was before TP, wouldn't the name Ganon be pretty well known? That and TP seems to begin in a time of peace and that seems to be a result of OOT's Link making sure that this reality didn't turn out like the one he left. I think that the CT actually had it worse, but that really isn't a part of this conversation. There is still the lost woods problem. Because of FSA's and ALTTP's identical geography, they have the same lost woods which used to be the forest of light. If I remember correctly, the removed text mentions that the MS is in the forest. The sacred grove is definitly NOT the dark forest from FSA and ALTTP. It's still a light forest and it's definitly the same place. Wait a sec. In TMC, didn't Din's figurine mention that her ansestors were from Holodrum?

#17 Pinecove

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 10:01 PM

Uh, yeah, but it also had a bunch of other books with various references and Easter eggs. Remember that "context" thing?

I'm just going to play devil's advocate here:

How do we know those are easter eggs in the first place?

That being said it's entirely possible for the books to be Canon and just be interpreted different ways. Am I making sense?

Hell, from what I've heard, the Japanese version of TWW didn't even use the name Triumph Forks. the Fishman and everyone else said Bucket and Hose instead. It was supposedly a joke based off of the arranging of the kanji.


...bucket and ...hose? Sorry, but I just find that hard to believe.

Though it could also be that TMC comes after Oracles as well. Nayru's figurine in TMC says she's a descendant of a long line of priestesses from Labrynna. This could mean that TMC Nayru is a descendant of Nayru from OoA or they're both descendants of the same priestess. It could work either way or you can just ignore it completely as another Easter Egg. Whatever flips your skirt. It should be noted though that in OoA you go far into Labrynna's past and do not meet any of past Nayru, which means it's more feasible to believe OoA Nayru is the original and that TMC Nayru is her descendant, instead of of inventing some hypothetic ancestor that we just don't see in OoA.


Definitely not: I'll find the quote in a bit (still has to be added to the historian project unfortunately, but it IS somewhere). Aonuma (or someone else, I dunno) said they choose characters for a game to suit the mood. AKA the characters in TMC of Nayru etc were put in because they were easter eggs.
I did a really bad job explaining that, but I'll get the quote as soon as I can.

Edited by Destiny, 29 May 2010 - 10:02 PM.


#18 Person

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:52 PM

Indeed, the sidequest involving the Oracles was an elaborate shout-out to the third game in the series that never got made. I doubt they put those characters in the game intending them to have some huge significance. It's like Malon and Talon being all over the place.

Every developer quote relevant to TMC paints it as a prequel. OoX references were in it because the games were made by the same development team.

#19 Impossible

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 12:43 AM

Hell, from what I've heard, the Japanese version of TWW didn't even use the name Triumph Forks. the Fishman and everyone else said Bucket and Hose instead. It was supposedly a joke based off of the arranging of the kanji.


Yeah, my understanding is that this is what is written on the book in TMC. A Japanese pun, not Triumph Forks. My guess is that it's something basically meant to sound so generic that, in the context of TMC, it should probably be interpreted with its actual meaning - basically as a joke on how it was used in TWW.

How do we know those are easter eggs in the first place?


Uh, by definition? This is basic common sense. They have nothing to do with the story.

...bucket and ...hose? Sorry, but I just find that hard to believe.


Well, you'd be wrong, given that it's what the Hylian on the book says. I'll go dig up a reference after I post this. You have this habit I've seen a few times of using evidence you don't even know the actual context of, which you really need to get out of by now. At least make sure you know all the details of the evidence you're using. You get too much second hand crap from biased people.

Edit: I know that the Japanese equivalent of Triumph Forks was "Tarai to Hosu", which is obviously similar to Toraifosu (Triforce). This is what is written in TMC. It means "Bucket and Hose", and could be taken to be pretty generic. Obviously it's meant as an Easter Egg for anyone who makes the effort to find it and translate it, but it works as a random name for a book, even ignoring the in-joke. Not that you'd ever know what it says unless you knew the reference, though, since it's written in Hylian anyway.

I can't find the topic that originally had the translations posted in it, though, so if anyone has that, it would be appreciated.

Edited by Impossible, 30 May 2010 - 01:08 AM.


#20 Person

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 03:06 AM

It also stretches credulity to think that Nintendo would hide super-secret subtle clues as to the one true timeline placement of TMC on the spine of a book that you'd need to know both Japanese and Hylian to read and have played TWW in Japanese to get the reference. As opposed to coming out and saying that the game is the origin for Link's hat, which they did.

#21 Impossible

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:52 AM

I'm pretty sure that post summed up about 80% of the content of my timeline document's TMC section in two sentences. Nicely done. That effectively is the point about context, anyway - why the hell would they be so ridiculously obscure and nonsensical with the actual relevant placement information, hiding it in Easter eggs most people will never see, yet be blatant and public, both inside and outside the game, about things that suggest another placement?

Edited by Impossible, 30 May 2010 - 08:55 AM.


#22 Pinecove

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

(If anyone could tell me how to name the people I'm quoting in my quotes that would be appreciated. The coding it different from on ZU)

Impossible:

Uh, by definition? This is basic common sense. They have nothing to do with the story.


Once again I said I was just playing devil's advocate. But you still failed to answer why the books would bother to say something you know what, scratch that it's bad reasoning as everything in TWW has something written on it too. My point is, just because it's pointless to translate, doesn't mean it's worthless. According to you, we should discount the fact that there is "no docking allowed" near the backside of windfall island because the sign that says that is in Hylian.

"Tarai to Hosu"


My bad.

It also stretches credulity to think that Nintendo would hide super-secret subtle clues as to the one true timeline placement of TMC on the spine of a book that you'd need to know both Japanese and Hylian to read and have played TWW in Japanese to get the reference. As opposed to coming out and saying that the game is the origin for Link's hat, which they did.


Oh I know that, I currently place TMC first on my timeline.
My point is that evidence can be interpreted different ways, and just because one book says "Triumph forks" does not mean that it was written by the fishmen. It could have been what the fishmen got so confused over in the first place.

Although yeah, this "bucket and hose" thing really ended this argument.

#23 Impossible

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 01:36 AM

Maybe it's a book about gardening. There's another one on the same shelf about flowers. As well as the Mysterious Seed/Nut ones referring to the Oracles. So it's more of an inside joke.

According to you, we should discount the fact that there is "no docking allowed" near the backside of windfall island because the sign that says that is in Hylian.


No, we should discount the fact that the banning of docking on the back of Windfall Island is a key detail through which Nintendo hid the secret to TWW's timeline placement.

If it were Hylian written in a place of actual lore relevance (e.g. in the Temple of Time), I might be more forgiving, but even then, it would obviously have to be consistent with other intent shown in other ways in the game. So there's nothing we're going to gain from the Hylian itself, it's just a bit of flavour added to what must already be indicated through more obvious means. For example, the Hylian indicating where the Door of Time is in TP is consistent with the fact that the place is called the Temple of Time, has the same structure as OoT's Temple of Time, and has the Master Sword in it.

And I hope you're all happy, because I couldn't find any other sources, so in order to confirm all this, I was forced to read a post by Master of ALttP. I still feel a little sick for a while after reading anything that arrogant, hateful and insulting, and most of the UWM posts are like that. (The general vibe of many of those posts is "This one piece of evidence, regardless of its actual context or story relevance, proves as an absolute fact what we all know is true and no other possibilities should be explored regardless of any evidence for anything else, so shut up and accept it, inferior beings.")

Edited by Impossible, 31 May 2010 - 01:46 AM.


#24 ganonlord6000

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:48 PM

Maybe it's a book about gardening. There's another one on the same shelf about flowers. As well as the Mysterious Seed/Nut ones referring to the Oracles. So it's more of an inside joke.

According to you, we should discount the fact that there is "no docking allowed" near the backside of windfall island because the sign that says that is in Hylian.


No, we should discount the fact that the banning of docking on the back of Windfall Island is a key detail through which Nintendo hid the secret to TWW's timeline placement.

If it were Hylian written in a place of actual lore relevance (e.g. in the Temple of Time), I might be more forgiving, but even then, it would obviously have to be consistent with other intent shown in other ways in the game. So there's nothing we're going to gain from the Hylian itself, it's just a bit of flavour added to what must already be indicated through more obvious means. For example, the Hylian indicating where the Door of Time is in TP is consistent with the fact that the place is called the Temple of Time, has the same structure as OoT's Temple of Time, and has the Master Sword in it.

And I hope you're all happy, because I couldn't find any other sources, so in order to confirm all this, I was forced to read a post by Master of ALttP. I still feel a little sick for a while after reading anything that arrogant, hateful and insulting, and most of the UWM posts are like that. (The general vibe of many of those posts is "This one piece of evidence, regardless of its actual context or story relevance, proves as an absolute fact what we all know is true and no other possibilities should be explored regardless of any evidence for anything else, so shut up and accept it, inferior beings.")

Nicely put, Impossible. Why on earth would Nintendo place the key to the timeline in a few random places that you won't go to unless you look for it. I agree with what you said about the hylian that is in an important place like the temple of time. If Hylian was there and is actually supported in the game, it would mean something. But things like most of the figurines in TMC don't have any support in the game. The DS games also seem to imply that TMC has to occur before them and that FS and FSA can't go after them. I believe that you have mentioned something like this before. Or something very similar. This arguement has shown how meaninglesss the triumph forks reference in TMC is. Not that I ever doubted that it was meaningless.

Edited by ganonlord6000, 31 May 2010 - 04:50 PM.


#25 Pinecove

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:23 PM

Impossible: It's okay I believe you about the Bucket and Hose thing. My point was that all peices of text are Canon however relevant or not they may be. And you just proved the bookshelf we are on deals with gardening so... ta da.

Also I can never tell whether you're angry or not.

#26 Average Gamer

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:41 PM

[quote name='Destiny']
(If anyone could tell me how to name the people I'm quoting in my quotes that would be appreciated. The coding it different from on ZU)[/quote]

Sure.

To quote someone, you first need to type:

quote name=

After the equal sign, you must place the person's name in single quotation marks, as so:

'Link'

The above must be posted between brackets. [ ]

Quotes on LA end the same way as on ZU. I've found that it doesn't matter if the ending bracket is completely capitalized or lowercase.

[/quote]

Put it together to get this:

[quote name='Link']...[/quote]

Edited by Average Gamer, 31 May 2010 - 08:42 PM.


#27 Pinecove

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:50 PM

Put it together to get this:


Thanks.

Edited by Destiny, 31 May 2010 - 08:51 PM.


#28 Impossible

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 01:06 AM

Or you can click the Reply or MultiQuote buttons at the bottom right of each post.

#29 Pinecove

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:21 PM

@Soap:
I found you the quote.

NP: We see many familiar characters in this game (even the kid with the dripping nose from The Wind Waker!). Did you refer to any particular Zelda game for development of this game?

HF: In a kind of reverse way. We created the world of the Minish Cap first, then chose characters to fit this world.


Source: http://web.archive.o...int-z14-np-eahf

#30 SOAP

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 09:21 AM

@Soap:
I found you the quote.

NP: We see many familiar characters in this game (even the kid with the dripping nose from The Wind Waker!). Did you refer to any particular Zelda game for development of this game?

HF: In a kind of reverse way. We created the world of the Minish Cap first, then chose characters to fit this world.


Source: http://web.archive.o...int-z14-np-eahf


Thanks, though it's not like I didn't believe you. I'm pretty sure the Oracles in TMC were just Easter eggs put in there just 'cuz. Although they're not as esoteric as a book spine.

Besides, I'm a firm believer that TMC is first. FS/FSA I have other ideas about.




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