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Clarification of Translated Quote from TWW


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#1 Average Gamer

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 04:06 AM

Because I don't want to weigh down the translations thread and I'm hoping to hear everyone's opinion on this, I decided to make this a separate thread.

In the Japanese version of TWW, Jumbie's corrections of Ganondorf's pre-battle speech revealed this line:

]トライフォースに値するかをな!
Whether you are worthy of the Triforce!


While it is clear that Ganondorf did not actually insult the Triforce in the Japanese text, the meaning behind this line is somewhat unclear. Is Ganondorf simply rambling as he looks for a way to vent his anger? Is he doubting that Link and Tetra deserve to benefit from a wish in general? Does he, for whatever reason, believe that they claimed the Triforce instead of Daphnes?

Now, as I've thought about this line, something else occurred to me that may tie in with TWW's theme of moving on and the folly of obsessing over the past. Could it be that, from his demented perspective, Ganondorf perceives Hyrule to be perfectly fine, the Triforce still split, and that Link and Tetra have climbed his tower to claim the Triforce for themselves? Has he completely separated himself from reality at this moment and fled into the past?

I'm hoping that everyone can help shed light on this.

#2 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 12:00 PM

Is he doubting that Link and Tetra deserve to benefit from a wish in general?


Yes.

#3 Average Gamer

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 05:04 PM

Is there anything else you'd like to add? Do you believe that Ganondorf is fighting for the sake of fighting, or is it a "If I can't have it no one can," sort of scenario? Maybe a Fox and the Grapes scenario of sorts involving a future instead of the Triforce?

Edited by Average Gamer, 16 April 2010 - 05:11 PM.


#4 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 11:52 AM

He's just pissed he didn't get the Triforce, so he's killing these brats out of spite. What's the big deal? Ganondorf isn't some sort of psychological drama protagonist or something.

#5 Average Gamer

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 04:47 PM

He's just pissed he didn't get the Triforce, so he's killing these brats out of spite. What's the big deal? Ganondorf isn't some sort of psychological drama protagonist or something.


In TWW, Ganondorf's the main example of why it is terrible to obsess over the past and dismiss the present and future. Over the course of the game, he essentially hides himself from the world and retreats deeper and deeper into a glorified idea of the past. With the old world truly eradicated by Daphnes' wish and Ganondorf's laughter suggesting that he's completely lost his mind at that point, I was just wondering if a complete retreat into the past was a viable interpretation. If not that, then I want to know if Ganondorf might have had a reason for fighting the kids aside from rage. EX: full-blown insanity, trying to destroy their future out of jealousy, spiting Daphnes out of a belief that the Triforce would not give the children a future, etc.

Other people can share their interpretations as well. I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about this.

Edited by Average Gamer, 17 April 2010 - 05:00 PM.


#6 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 12:17 PM

I don't see why all the above can't be true. They all kind've tie into the reason I gave.

#7 Average Gamer

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 10:22 PM

I don't see why all the above can't be true. They all kind've tie into the reason I gave.


Well, the "total retreat into the past" theory actually involves Ganondorf completely losing touch with reality and not really fighting out of spite.

Could it be that, from his demented perspective, Ganondorf perceives Hyrule to be perfectly fine, the Triforce still split, and that Link and Tetra have climbed his tower to claim the Triforce for themselves?


The theory may also provide a better explanation for why Ganondorf didn't just decapitate Tetra in the battle, but you could say that the wish for a future interfered.

#8 Raien

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:02 PM

I'm with MPS on this one. Ganondorf clearly fought out of spite. Storytelling 101 says that if Ganondorf was supposed to be hallucinating or delerious, you either show how Ganondorf perceives things or you have another character question Ganondorf's words. Manical laughter is not enough to suggest full-blown hallucination.

#9 Pinecove

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:04 PM

Why would people think Ganondorf was hallucinating in the first place? He was clearly pissed off/wanted to take Link on even without the Triforce behind him.

#10 Average Gamer

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:36 PM

Why would people think Ganondorf was hallucinating in the first place?


Again, that's more of a crack theory that I myself find rather doubtful; I probably should have made that more clear. The main issue is that if Ganondorf just said something like "And whether you're worth saving," the spite angle would be perfectly clear. It's just that him questioning if the kids are worthy of the Triforce (when they weren't even the ones who claimed it in the first place) sounds awkward to me, making it seem like Ganon believes he can actually accomplish something. I really just want to gather opinions to see if it can be chalked up to an awkward sentence.

#11 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 01:33 PM

The children didn't "acquire" the Triforce, but they're the ones who are benefiting from the wish made on it. Of COURSE Ganondorf thinks he can accomplish something; he's GANONDORF, the whole crux of his character is his godlike arrogance and his ability to actually pull it off half the time.

#12 Average Gamer

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 04:57 PM

I understand that the children benefit from the wish; the use of the word "worthy" when it was often used to describe possessing the Triforce was what felt odd. While I understand the crux of Ganon's character, I don't know what exactly he thought he'd actually accomplish with his spiteful battle.

#13 Raien

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 07:34 PM

The children represent the future of Hyrule; that's why Ganondorf asks if they are worthy of the Triforce.

#14 Average Gamer

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 05:01 PM

The children represent the future of Hyrule; that's why Ganondorf asks if they are worthy of the Triforce


However, Link and Tetra in no way desire the Triforce, and the future has nothing to do with it or (Old) Hyrule. I don't see why Ganon would "test" if they were worthy of something they didn't want, couldn't have, and wouldn't have even remembered.

Edited by Average Gamer, 14 May 2010 - 05:06 PM.


#15 Fin

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:39 AM

But the wish was centred around them - the king wished for the children to have hope, and Ganondorf spitefully wanted to test if they were worthy of receiving the wish.

#16 Average Gamer

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:57 PM

But the wish was centred around them - the king wished for the children to have hope, and Ganondorf spitefully wanted to test if they were worthy of receiving the wish.


I agree, that's probably what was intended. The statement was just worded awkwardly.

I've got a few inputs on this so far. Anyone else like to add anything?




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