115 replies to this topic

[Raien]

I liked Super Mario Galaxy, but I personally found it a step down from Super Mario Sunshine. I got my enjoyment out of it, but after I got finished with the main game and beat Bowser, I didn't feel as compelled to keep exploring like I did in Sunshine. Except for the possibility of unlocking Luigi, it didn't really matter to me.

Now this is a more understandable complaint. Various franchises have attempted both linear and explorative level designs, and people often take more strongly to one or the other. After Mario's non-linear adventures in Super Mario 64 and Sunshine, I can understand if people didn't like Galaxy's linear approach.

I'm a linear person myself. I find that while I've explored Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 to death, the tighter linear gameplay of Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario Galaxy keeps me coming back to them.

[Sir Turtlelot]

I loved SMG, I thought it easily surpassed SMS, and possibly even surpassed SM64, but that's just me.

[Steel Samurai]

Every time I try to play Sunshine I find it keeps me occupied for about . . . 7 hours, max, and then I get very, very bored. Somehow dousing things with water just isn't as fun as jumping on things. I'm not much of a platformer fan these days anyway, but I do enjoy galaxy a helluva lot in short bursts.

[TheAvengerLever]

My biggest complaint is that Galaxy wasn't anything new. That's why I disliked Sunshine. It's basically 64 all over again. I can go back to all the old Mario games because they have something different to offer. Same formula, but each had something cool to do.

Same thing with Galaxy, except where older Mario games make up for being the same platformer, Galaxy brings NOTHING new to the scene except the new setting, bad powerups, and a really wierd atmosphere.

I'll stick to the side scrollers and the RPGs, I've lost faith in the 64-ish rip-offs (even 64 was pushing it a little)

[DarkJuno]

I actually rather liked Sunshine a lot more then most people do, though I do think it didn't do much more then SM64 except added water - beautiful water, sure, but that's all. Still a lot of fun and worth palying.. Galaxy I liked better if only because of how simple it was. The Waggle controls weren't completely random, and even then, the game itself was still a straight up platformer, as opposed to "Platformer with guns!" or "Platformer with water!" or whatever. Music was also more epic, for lack of a better term, then a Mario game should get, but that's something else. Still, in terms of setting I kinda liked Isle Delfino better rather then "collection fo small planets and planetoids floating in space." All the same, I liked both.

NSMBWii? Still awesome this many days and levels later. While it's still not exactly hard, it's still a pretty good challenge for jaded old gamers like me.

[Masamune]

Basically in a 3D Mario, I'd like see it like Sunshine, but set in the Mushroom Kingdom. I loved the sense of cohesiveness that Delfino Island had. Sure, all of the locations ended up kind of same-ish, but I never saw that as a bad thing. I'm not too crazy about themed worlds anyways.

[CID Farwin]

Oh my gosh, this game (NSMBWii) is unbelievably fun. I love how it's a sort of fusion between Mario 3 and Super Mario World. I have to say, though, that most of the fun probably came with the multiplayer. I have yet to play it solo, actually. I played through the entirety (mostly) of the original, but it was all kind of "meh." The multiplayer addition to the Wii version takes it to a whole new level. This was just me and my brother, mind you; I can't wait to see what sort of shenanigans unfold from 3 or 4 players.

I think it's actually harder to have more people, but the amount of fun makes up for it.

"YOU STOLE MY YOSHI!!!"

[Raien]

My biggest complaint is that Galaxy wasn't anything new. That's why I disliked Sunshine. It's basically 64 all over again. I can go back to all the old Mario games because they have something different to offer. Same formula, but each had something cool to do.

Same thing with Galaxy, except where older Mario games make up for being the same platformer, Galaxy brings NOTHING new to the scene except the new setting, bad powerups, and a really wierd atmosphere.

It's the use of multiple gravitational forces as a basis for level design that distinguishes Super Mario Galaxy from its predecessors. To say you didn't appreciate this innovation is one thing, but to completely ignore or dismiss it is just silly. There hasn't been a single platforming game that has used gravity in the way Galaxy did.

4-player co-op in a platformer, on the other hand, has been done before (as Toan pointed out). If there's a case for lack of innovation, NSMBWii is certainly a more appropriate choice than Galaxy.

Edited by Raien, 18 November 2009 - 08:08 AM.

[Raien]

NSMBWii just got released today in Europe, and I'm now halfway through World 2 on the single player mode. Judging from what I played so far, this game feels much more like the classic Mario platformers than the DS game did. The level design is superb and the Star Coins now feel like more of a challenge to find. The only thing I don't like is the Ice Flower, because while it can solve a few puzzles, the ice blocks hinder gameplay more than they help. I do like the Propellor Suit though. It's a nice fit for the game and a nice return for a suit that allows Mario to fly/float.

Edited by Raien, 20 November 2009 - 01:27 PM.

[TheAvengerLever]

It's the use of multiple gravitational forces as a basis for level design that distinguishes Super Mario Galaxy from its predecessors. To say you didn't appreciate this innovation is one thing, but to completely ignore or dismiss it is just silly. There hasn't been a single platforming game that has used gravity in the way Galaxy did.

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island did it first. And that was a better game.

[Mad Scrub]

Are you referring to the battle with Raphael the Raven? That was an awesome game.

http://www.mariowiki...phael_the_Raven

I can understand the criticisms of SMS and SMG. When you play a game in a particular series you expect to see certain characters and landscapes to return. The Koopas were really odd in SMG too, in the way they just sort of regenerated on the spot.

One small complaint I have about the series is I don't like the way they redesign certain enemies all the time. How many versions of Blargg have we had over the years? The monkeys in SM64 look the same as the ones in Yoshi's Island but the penguins (or Bumpty's as they were called in YI) don't. And sometimes Mario can kick Koopa shells upwards and sometimes he can't. He can do a triple jump in NSMB but he can't do that side somersault jump thing that's been used in the 3D games since SM64. I like consistency dammit!

[Raien]

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island did it first. And that was a better game.

Oh, I'm not saying that Galaxy was the first game to use gravity, but it was the first game to do so many things with gravity. Before Galaxy, gravity was only ever employed as a simple gimmick to use once and never to return to it. The Raphael battle in Yoshi's Island is one example, and Sonic Adventure 2 also had a basic globe level at one point (and actually, there was a level where Sonic could change gravity, but that was executed really poorly).

Galaxy introduced lots of things and made them core to the entire experience. The biggest innovation was to create gravity for different shapes of landmass, whether they be the small ovular mushroom spaceships or long, thin platforms. Then there are the coloured areas in the Bowser levels that had their own separate gravity, and the moving spotlights in the final stage. Even with the traditional concepts, Nintendo did some innovative things. In Buoy Base, a pipe took Mario to the underside of a large environment, where the gravity flipped to allow Mario to find a hidden star.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point well enough. The implementation of gravity in Galaxy took 3D platforming to the next level, allowing for a much wider variety of level designs that were possible with a single standard gravity. And perhaps most importantly, the new gravity mechanics were executed very successfully, and it was actually fun to long jump off one side of the planet only for the gravity to bring you back to ground on the other side. It's the sort of fun that was sorely missing in Sunshine.


PS: I'd also debate whether Yoshi's Island was better than any Mario platformer, let alone Galaxy. The level design was usual Miyamoto genius, but the inclusion of easily-missable items made getting the 100-point scores much more frustrating than it needed to be. I now don't play it simply because I don't have the patience to play it properly.


PPS: Just finished World 3 on NSMBWii. I LOVE this game now. It feels exactly like a classic Mario platformer and I'm having a really fun time with it!

Edited by Raien, 21 November 2009 - 03:38 PM.

[Ikiosho]

Raah. Turtlelot and I have been playing this for some 9 hours straight. We're at Bowser's Castle now.

[Raien]

Raah. Turtlelot and I have been playing this for some 9 hours straight. We're at Bowser's Castle now.

Have you collected all the Star Coins? You can't complete the game without those Star Coins.

I'm at the halfway mark for World 5 and I've collected every Star Coin thus far.

[Ikiosho]

We beat it. We played for a total of 14-16 hours. We started to go back to collect all the coins, but we got bored.

[Raien]

We beat it. We played for a total of 14-16 hours. We started to go back to collect all the coins, but we got bored.

You do realise you unlock World 9 by getting all the Star Coins, right?

Anyway, I've just finished World 7 and I can honestly say this is my GOTY. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's as good as, if not better than, Super Mario Bros. 3.

[Ikiosho]

Yeah. We got Level 1 in World 9, and then we stopped.

We were actually just discussing it, this was probably our favorite Mario side-scroller. SMW was my favorite, but I'm pretty sure this topped it.

[Raien]

It's also interesting to see how NSMB DS plays in retrospect. While I have since come to enjoy that game, I felt very underwhelmed by it during my first couple of playthroughs. Since playing NSMB Wii, I've realised that the level design of the DS game is watered-down in comparison, no doubt to accommodate the small handheld screen. The levels are smaller, enemies and obstacles are less frequent, and new items and features simply aren't used in the typical variety of ways that we come to expect from Nintendo.

NSMB DS was an excellent game by general standards, but I was unsatisfied because I had played better Mario games during my childhood. NSMB Wii, on the other hand, plays exactly like the Mario games of my childhood and also manages to implement its innovations effectively.

[Sir Turtlelot]

NSMB Wii is fucking amazing.

...

Ok, I'm good now that I got that out of my system. They implemented so many things from the older games, so many familiar faces and things.

The Koopalings' worlds are even somewhat similar to their respected counterparts in SMB3. Although I really wish they would of switched Roy and Morton. Morton was always the boss of World 2, and Roy was always a boss later on in the game, and World 2 was a desert, just like in SMB3. I loved the return of the Airship and Koopa Clown Car. Plus they had Kamek come in and do his magic move from SMW2 and make the boss battles even more challenging. Although I was hoping to have a Big Boo battle at some point in the game.

The NSMB series needs to keep going, I really want to see what their going to do for the next one. I hoping for the return of Wart or Tatanga.

Edited by Sir Turtlelot, 21 November 2009 - 09:49 PM.

[Raien]

Oh wow... They brought back the skewing cannonballs from SMB3's Airship (i.e. the cannoballs skew up or down with the swaying of the camera). Now that's an awesome throwback to classic Mario platforming.

Also, an infinite coin glitch has been discovered!



According to what I read, you need two players in the World 4 Castle. While a koopatroopa is on a flip gate, use one player to flip the gate and the other player to freeze the koopatroopa during the flip.

I've maxed out my lives, but this is a good way to rack up my score.

Edited by Raien, 22 November 2009 - 08:10 AM.

[spunky-monkey]

This game has exceeded my expectations, it really is that good once you get stuck into it, and I also never tire of the BGM humming a little tune as I jump over obstacles, but same can be said for most Mario titles, I digress.

My only gripes or "disappointments" with it are: SPOILERS WARNING!

Yoshi for the majority of the game, is treated like a seldom-seen item, (not unlike the Tanooki suit from SMB3) rather than an official companion you can take with you onto other stages as in SMW, this consequently means you can't use him most stages for a different playing experience, though I enjoy him waving at you when you enter those end-of-level forts, a nice touch. I guess Nintendo is focusing on using him for Galaxy 2 instead.

In New Super Mario Bros. DS on the final world there were "Koopa Troopa Bros. stages" that were very fun and challenging to play through - you'd have to tackle the various Hammer Bros., Fire Bros., Boomerang Bros., not to mention those huge Sledge Bros., and so on, but in NSMB Wii this novelty was strangely absent from World 8 and I found it upsetting.

You've probably heard this before, but *sigh* World 9 isn't technically a rainbow ninth world like everyone imagined, just some bonus stages, that you have to UNLOCK first. Cheap.

I liked Super Mario Galaxy, but I personally found it a step down from Super Mario Sunshine.

Funniest joke ever.

PS: I'd also debate whether Yoshi's Island was better than any Mario platformer, let alone Galaxy. The level design was usual Miyamoto genius, but the inclusion of easily-missable items made getting the 100-point scores much more frustrating than it needed to be. I now don't play it simply because I don't have the patience to play it properly.

It came across as Super Mario World 2 in respects to marketing, but truthfully I've always felt it to be a spin-off title instead, moreso a true Yoshi game, because the gameplay mechanics are so unique comparing to the main Mario series. Nintendo's development team put a hidden message in the game stating they put they're hearts and souls into the game and at moments it really does shine, that's not to say its the perfect platforming game, there are moments of pure frustation brought about by getting that stupid 100% status when holding onto 30/30 stars is virtually impossible on the harder levels, nevertheless it is highly enjoyable and really is worth a look for any newbie gamer.

EDIT: Guys, much to my alarm for a minute there, the SPOILER tags aren't working properly, I was forced to color the text instead, has there been a recent 'update' (aka "downdate") to IP.Board again?

Edited by Toan, 22 November 2009 - 02:47 PM.

[Raien]

I just completed this game 100%. Every goal found, every star coin collected. Did you know that if you accomplish this without either Continuing or seeing the Super Guide, that the stars on your save file will sparkle?

I also agree with spunky-monkey about the general absence of Yoshi, as his rare appearances were great fun and should have been more common. I also would have liked the option to play as Luigi after completing the game, but I'm not too disheartened by the absence of that feature.

It came across as Super Mario World 2 in respects to marketing, but truthfully I've always felt it to be a spin-off title instead, moreso a true Yoshi game, because the gameplay mechanics are so unique comparing to the main Mario series. Nintendo's development team put a hidden message in the game stating they put they're hearts and souls into the game and at moments it really does shine, that's not to say its the perfect platforming game, there are moments of pure frustation brought about by getting that stupid 100% status when holding onto 30/30 stars is virtually impossible on the harder levels, nevertheless it is highly enjoyable and really is worth a look for any newbie gamer.

Funnily enough, when I played the GBA version of Yoshi's Island, I actually achieved the "No. 1" tag on my save file, which means that I 100% beat the game without losing a single life. Perhaps that's what has made me look back on the game with anger.

Btw, did you know that the "Super Mario World 2" tag was only added to the Western version of Yoshi's Island? Ironically, the "Super Mario Bros. 4" tag was removed from the Western version of Super Mario World.

Edited by Raien, 22 November 2009 - 11:23 AM.

[Toan]

EDIT: Guys, much to my alarm for a minute there, the SPOILER tags aren't working properly, I was forced to color the text instead, has there been a recent 'update' (aka "downdate") to IP.Board again?

Um... no? We announce when we do updates, and until then everything works as usual. The tag is simply [spoiler*][*/spoiler] without the asterisks. I edited your post to reflect and make use of this - hope that's ok.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

On another note, why does Bowser even have that switch anyway?

[Raien]

On another note, why does Bowser even have that switch anyway?

To take that question even further, why did Bowser hang Peach's cage right over that switch? What if the chain holding the cage broke?

Edited by Raien, 22 November 2009 - 03:48 PM.

[Sir Turtlelot]

On another note, why does Bowser even have that switch anyway?

Same reason he had the axe in SMB.

[Veteran]

EDIT: Guys, much to my alarm for a minute there, the SPOILER tags aren't working properly, I was forced to color the text instead, has there been a recent 'update' (aka "downdate") to IP.Board again?

Um... no? We announce when we do updates, and until then everything works as usual. The tag is simply [spoiler*][*/spoiler] without the asterisks. I edited your post to reflect and make use of this - hope that's ok.

Sometimes the spoiler tags screw up for no apparent reason, and fix themselves in similar fashion. I called Mulder, but he was out.

[Masamune]

I liked Super Mario Galaxy, but I personally found it a step down from Super Mario Sunshine.

Funniest joke ever.

And yet, as far as I'm concerned, still true. It may not reflect that in reviews and sales, but the linearity of Super Mario Galaxy was a major step back for the 3D Mario games. After the novelty of walking around a planet got old, it was just Mario in space. As strange as it might sound, that is even more boring than an entire game taking place on a tropical island. The FLUDD attachments made for better powerups than what we got in Super Mario Galaxy. Bee Mario got old fast, Boo Mario was just a novelty, and the only real cool one was Ice Flower which was all kinds of fun (though not as fun as Turbo FLUDD).

But of course it's not an entirely popular opinion, since Super Mario Sunshine tends to have a black sheep status surrounding it. That's fine, but I just don't think Galaxy is all its cracked up to be.

[SL the Pyro]

We were actually just discussing it, this was probably our favorite Mario side-scroller. SMW was my favorite, but I'm pretty sure this topped it.

Ironically, SMW still has a bloody-huge fanbase because of Lunar Magic and all those other hacking tools. Perhaps I should dust off my project...

Arrrgh, hearing all this stuff about NSMBW is making me so jealous and impatient. My birthday/Christmas can't come fast enough.

[SteveT]

But Sunshine wasn't a whole lot less linear than Galaxy. Galaxy may have reused areas left, but the levels in Sunshine changed to accommodate whatever shine you selected upon entering the level. I seem to recall being able to sequence break a bit in Sunshine, but not nearly as often as you could in 64.

And while Sunshine took place entirely on the tropical island, Galaxy's levels were a lot more varied despite being in space. Most of them could be described as [traditional Mario setting]...IN SPACE. Desert IN SPACE. Lake IN SPACE...and so forth. A significant portion of the levels weren't space-themed at all, aside from the sky and some fun with gravity.

Sunshine IS underrated, though.