36 replies to this topic

[TheAvengerLever]

So, the biggest question in the fandom is, "Is Cranky DK's father or Grandfather?"

Well, most people would say it's his father, due to a quote by Cranky in DK64 and a confirmation from the writers of the DKC dialogue.

Even though original intent was for Cranky to be his grandfather, a trait that carries on in the GBA ports (which didn't bother to fix the quotes in the DKC games where Cranky refers to himself as being DK's "grandpappy")

So How Is One To Prove That The Current Donkey Kong is the Grandson of Cranky Kong, who is the Original Donkey Kong?

It's simple: It's a game overlooked by most DKC lovers everywhere: Donkey Kong Plus.


Released for the Gameboy in 1994, the game featured an updated version of the original Donkey Kong arcade game. But why is Donkey Kong given a new look? This is the first game where Donkey Kong is given a red tie.

Here is where I'll ask you a question: What if the Donkey Kong of Donkey Kong Plus is really the original Donkey Kong Jr. all grown up? And the Donkey Kong Junior of DK+ is the Donkey Kong that we all know and love today?

This would fix several issues regarding confusing Cranky Kong quotes.

Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed my Timeline.

So then, we have:

Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Junior
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong +
Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Donkey Kong Country 3
Donkey Kong 64
DK King of Swing
Jungle Climber.


Am I forgetting anything?

Edited by TheAvengerButton, 01 September 2009 - 03:59 PM.

[joeymartin64]

Ha ha ha. I've got to get in on this before it gets closed.

I'm pretty sure DK94 is supposed to be a retcon of the original. Also, DK64 is undeniably a sequel to the SNES series, with several references in the game and manual confirming this, Wrinkly's ghost being the biggest. She outright says "since DKC3."

[TheAvengerLever]

In that case I'll switch DK64 with Jungle Beat. This way it explains the absence of modern DK's father in the DKC games.

But the reason it was called DK94 in the first place is that it was intended to be a new game altogether. Therefore, I can't agree with you on your first point.

Besides, counting DK+ as a totally new game as apposed to a retcon would make it a hell of a lot more easier for DK fans everywhere to say that Donkey Kong the Third is the grandson of Cranky Kong.

Edited by TheAvengerButton, 01 September 2009 - 04:10 PM.

[Masamune]

What's your opinion on Yoshi's Island DS? Is it the original DK or is it "Super DK" from the SNES onwards? I used to subscribe to the former, but lately I've changed my tune to believe it's in fact the current DK.

[joeymartin64]

But the reason it was called DK94 in the first place is that it was intended to be a new game altogether. Therefore, I can't agree with you on your first point.

It wasn't, though. It's just called Donkey Kong. DK94 is a fan nickname, used to differentiate it from the original, like Castlevania 64. As far as I know, the first four levels are identical to the arcade version. It's like a super-enhanced remake.

Of course, this is coming from the guy who considers SMB2J/Lost Levels a re-telling as opposed to a sequel, so take that as you will.

What's your opinion on Yoshi's Island DS? Is it the original DK or is it "Super DK" from the SNES onwards? I used to subscribe to the former, but lately I've changed my tune to believe it's in fact the current DK.

I prefer to think of it as the orignal DK, a young Cranky. No reason he can't look like his son in his youth. Hell, that would explain the design of DK Island. And gorillas, presumably even Mario-universe ones, age faster than humans.

Edited by joeymartin64, 01 September 2009 - 05:00 PM.

[TheAvengerLever]

Baby DK from Yoshi's Island DS would probably Have To be DKII, or the original Donkey Kong Jr.

[Jarsh]

I think I'm missing something, how come Jungle Beat would be before the Country games? And what about Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Barrel Blast, DK Land, and the Donkey Konga games? Are the little-known Jungle Fever and Banana Kingdom arcade games canon? And what of his appearance in Punch-Out!! for the Wii?

Edited by Jarsh, 01 September 2009 - 05:17 PM.

[Hana-Nezumi]

So then, we have:

Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Junior
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong +
Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Donkey Kong Country 3
Donkey Kong 64
DK King of Swing
Jungle Climber.


Am I forgetting anything?

Donkey Kong Barrel Blast, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis, Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Minis March Again, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Konga...

Also the Mario Parties and Mario sports games.

[Masamune]

Well, at least we know the Banjo series isn't canon. And I feel that is completely justifiable because I don't care much for Banjo and also because his games are silly.

[Person]

We know that Banjo is supposed to exist in a distinct separate universe from the main Mario universe that contains the DK, Mario, Yoshi, and Wario series. Thus, it would constitute an intercontinuity crossover and be non-canon by default. Otherwise, we'd have the XBox 360 Banjo game in the Mario canon, and that would bring in a whole bunch of other issues. The real question is whether or not Captain N and Saturday Supercade are canon.

[Masamune]

Well, that's only because of the buyout. My argument would be just as valid pre-Gamecube.

[Person]

Well, that's only because of the buyout. My argument would be just as valid pre-Gamecube.

We can consider the DS version of Diddy Kong Racing to be canon, since it removed Banjo and Conker and replaced them with Dixie and Tiny. Thus avoiding the cross-company crossover niggles.

[Masamune]

Dammit Person! I'm trying to mock Anti-Tingle people here!

Also: Tiptup is still in Diddy Kong Racing DS and the XBLA versions of the Banjo games.

Edited by Masamune, 01 September 2009 - 06:53 PM.

[joeymartin64]

I consider the Banjo series part of the greater Mario/DK canon. And Conker. And... wait for it... Sonic. Yes, I went there.

[Person]

I consider the Banjo series part of the greater Mario/DK canon. And Conker. And... wait for it... Sonic. Yes, I went there.

So does that mean that Super Smash Bros. is canon as well?

[Masamune]

Which means that the Zelda series is canon too... after all, Link was one of the best adventurers in DKC2 and was mentioned in DKC3. And that's why this thread is in this forum.

[joeymartin64]

I consider the Banjo series part of the greater Mario/DK canon. And Conker. And... wait for it... Sonic. Yes, I went there.

So does that mean that Super Smash Bros. is canon as well?

No, that's just silly. (<-SAID FOR THE IRONY)

I'm in the minority as Mario fans go, but I consider the sports games at least partially canon, which would include the Olympics games. Plus, the idea of the two historical rivals inhabiting a shared universe amuses me. But, hell, I'm even more lax with Mario storyline than Zelda storyline (and you've seen that firsthand).

Which means that the Zelda series is canon too... after all, Link was one of the best adventurers in DKC2 and was mentioned in DKC3. And that's why this thread is in this forum.

I'm considering posting a link to an article I wrote for Coin Heaven (a Mario blog) a couple years ago about this issue. Would that be too stupid?

[Jarsh]

Alright, I'm posting my Mario timeline (actually it's a modified version of someone else's). Pretty sure I have a Megami Tensei timeline somewhere on this HDD too.

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island [1]
Mario & Luigi Partner's in Time - Past
Yoshi's Island DS [2]
(Some Time Later)
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Junior
Mario Bros. / Mario Bros. Special / Punch Ball Mario Bros. [3]
Super Mario Bros. / Super Mario Bros. Special / Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels [4]
Wrecking Crew [5]
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario Land
Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins [6]
Super Mario World
Mario & Wario [7]
Yoshi's Safari
Donkey Kong '94 [8] (Donkey Kong series branches off after this with Donkey Kong Country)
Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 [9] (Wario series branches off after this with Wario Land II)
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Super Mario 64 DS [10]
Wrecking Crew '98
Paper Mario
Luigi's Mansion
Super Mario Sunshine [11]
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Mario vs. Donkey Kong [12]
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Super Princess Peach [13]
Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time - Present
New Super Mario Bros.
Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis
Super Paper Mario
Super Mario Galaxy [14]


[1] I'm well aware that it's not labeled SMW2 in Japan or on GBA. Also, it starts off the series and establishes some things we may not have known before, like Mario was always in the Mushroom Kingdom.
[2] This occurs after Partners in Time's past because Baby Bowser recognizes his adult self here. Likewise, we can assume that the adult Bowser travelled back in time sometime after Partners in Time's present. Also, the Yoshi born at the end of the game may be the Yoshi we're familiar with in later games seeing as he's one of the Star Children.
[3] Grouped them together. They're all basically the same game with unique variations.
[4] Grouped them together. They're different games with similar gameplay and the exact same story.
[5] I'm counting this because it's Arcade-like (like Mario Bros.), and it also had a sequel in Japan with a real storyline in the Mushroom Kingdom.
[6] This could go directly after Super Mario Land because it's said that Wario hired Tatanga to deal with Mario, but I don't know if that's true. Also, Mario Party 2 is said to go over the origins of Mario Land, but it's probably a different Mario Land.
[7] Counting this because Wario still resents Mario, and it shows.
[8] This is the last game with the original Donkey Kong. Sometime after this, his grandson was born, and Donkey Kong gave his own name to him. The original DK took up the moniker "Cranky Kong". This is what starts off the branched series.
[9] After this, Wario had no reason to hold a grudge with Mario. He had everything he wanted, and thus his own series was born. He's still greedy and easily-jealous as ever, though.
[10] Counting the DS version over the original because it goes over King Boo's revenge in Luigi's Mansion and shows the Goomba King before Bowser made him into a king (Goomboss).
[11] It introduces Bowser Jr. in the series, who continues to grow in each mainstream appearance he makes (in the spinoffs, he remains the size he is in this game, which is roughly Baby Bowser's size). As for the Koopalings, I think Mario & Luigi was Nintendo's way of cutting off their ties with Bowser (they technically served Cackletta).
[12] This features the new Donkey Kong from the branched series.
[13] I don't know if this game instead takes place earlier than Luigi's Mansion, as King Boo makes an appearance.
[14] The latest mainstream Mario game, and certainly not the last - there will apparently be a sequel to this and New Super Mario Bros.

[Fin]

I consider the Banjo series part of the greater Mario/DK canon. And Conker. And... wait for it... Sonic. Yes, I went there.

So does that mean that Super Smash Bros. is canon as well?

Which means so is Metroid, F-Zero, Star Fox (maybe James McCloud really is that James McCloud!), and... uh... Metal Gear.

...

Awesome!

[Person]

We can establish several different universes for the Nintendo properties, then.

Note that this does not include SSB, as that image would be way too huge for any web browser to handle.

[Masamune]

How does Metroid Prime Hunters connect to Zelda? Metroid DOES connect to Mario though, since Samus is in SMRPG.

Tekken and Spawn are connected to Soul Calibur.

Wario is connected to Starfy, having actually appeared in (I think) Starfy 4.

Komaytos in Kid Icarus are basically just Metroids.

DK is in Punch-Out Wii

Edited by Masamune, 01 September 2009 - 09:10 PM.

[Fin]

And Spawn is connected to the DC Universe through Batman, which is connected to the Marvel Universe, which is connected to Norse legend...

[Masamune]

Norse Legend is connected to Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, which is connected to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which is connected to Doctor Who, which is-- okay, I'll stop.

[joeymartin64]

God of War. Kratos is in the upcoming PSP Soul Calibur game.

Aside: Hey, Masa, remember way back when, when you thought LA needed a Mario forum?

Edited by joeymartin64, 01 September 2009 - 11:04 PM.

[Person]

MPH is connected to Zelda because there are wall carvings of Majora's Mask on Alinos, meaning that the Metroid universe is actually the far-future of Termina.

[joeymartin64]

I knew this whole thing reminded me of something: Tommy Westphall.

Click for the madness: http://home.vicnet.n...crossovers.html

[Fin]

I knew this whole thing reminded me of something: Tommy Westphall.

Click for the madness: http://home.vicnet.n...crossovers.html

Okay... Star Trek is in that grid, and we've already established a connection between the Marvel Universe and our Nintendo chart...

So...



Fuck yeah.



EDIT: Oh, looks like Dr Who and Hitchhiker's Guide are in there too. <.<

Edited by Fintin O'Brien, 02 September 2009 - 12:47 AM.

[Masamune]

It's possible every major franchise can somehow be connected in this way. For the very nerdy among of us, you could turn it into a game of "Six Degrees of Jean Luc Picard".

[TheAvengerLever]

Cameo games do not count as canon:

Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Junior
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong Plus (introduces grown up DK Jr. and a new DK Junior who would become Super DK)
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (put here under the impression that the DK in this game is DKII, which would help explain his absence in the DKC games as he was out conquering other kingdoms.
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Land (sequels do not count as they were mere ports, whereas this game was an actual sequel)
Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble
Diddy Kong Racing
Donkey Kong 64
Mario vs. DK
MvsDK2
DK King of Swing
DK Jungle Climber
DK Barrel Blast

[Masamune]

Donkey Kong was never 'conquering' any kingdoms in Jungle Beat, that's just an explanation that was made up by DKViners who were butthurt over Diddy not being in it. The NPC rerelease explains that the evil Kongs stole DK's bananas.