65 replies to this topic

[ganonlord6000]

This is a key point in piecing a timeline together: finding out which games are canon and which aren't(same with muliple versions of games for different systems). Here's a list of what I think is canon and non-canon in the Zelda universe:

Games:
LOZ(NES, GC, GBA, VC)-all
AOL(NES, GC, GBA, VC)-all
ALTTP(SNES, GBA, VC)-GBA
LA(GB GBC)-both
OOT(N64, GC, VC)-all
MM(N64, GC, VC)-all
OOA(GBC)-yes
OOS(GBC)-yes
FS(GBA)-debatable
TWW(GC)-yes
FSA(GC)-yes
TMC(GBA)-yes
TP(Wii, GC)-both
PH(DS)-yes
any tingle game-no
LCT(Wii)-no
CD-I games- big time no
SSB games-no
SC2-no

Other:
Cartoon- debatable
comics-same as above
BS-X games- either debatable or semi-canon

official material that is non-canon:
SNES version of ALTTP

What is canon material to the rest of you? This is an important topic after all.

[joeymartin64]

I'm probably alone here, but I consider FSA as sort of an enhanced re-telling of FS, sort of like how several different Castlevania games are all re-tellings of Simon's first quest (Super Castlevania IV, for example). Different levels, different bosses, same story. Yeah, FS and FSA have different stuff happening during the endings, but the prologues and openings are basically identical. There's also a bit of a demo/full game relationship going on, as well.

EDIT: <NOT COMPLETELY SERIOUS>I also consider the SNES ALttP version, rather than the GBA version, because I hate Fujiko Takimoto, and I'm petty like that.</NOT COMPLETELY SERIOUS>

Edited by joeymartin64, 30 July 2009 - 11:22 PM.

[Person]

I'm probably alone here, but I consider FSA as sort of an enhanced re-telling of FS, sort of like how several different Castlevania games are all re-tellings of Simon's first quest (Super Castlevania IV, for example). Different levels, different bosses, same story. Yeah, FS and FSA have different stuff happening during the endings, but the prologues and openings are basically identical. There's also a bit of a demo/full game relationship going on, as well.

EDIT: <NOT COMPLETELY SERIOUS>I also consider the SNES ALttP version, rather than the GBA version, because I hate Fujiko Takimoto, and I'm petty like that.</NOT COMPLETELY SERIOUS>

FSA retells the basic plot of FS in its intro, though, and they make references to the last time Link fought Vaati. I think the game's canon, but really just serves as a prelude to FSA story-wise.

Now as for the SNES version of ALttP, the US translation is most definitely not canon, but the Japanese manual has a lot of important stuff in it like the origins of the Master Sword that can't be ignored.

[joeymartin64]

FSA retells the basic plot of FS in its intro, though, and they make references to the last time Link fought Vaati. I think the game's canon, but really just serves as a prelude to FSA story-wise.

Oh, it does? I only played the damn thing once, due to my undying contempt for that story arc, so if that's true, I take back what I said before.

EDIT: Checked the stickied thread.

Zelda's childhood friend, a young boy named Link, claimed the strange power of the Four Sword and fought Vaati fiercely. In the end, he succeeded in sealing Vaati away once again.

Officially taken back.

Now as for the SNES version of ALttP, the US translation is most definitely not canon, but the Japanese manual has a lot of important stuff in it like the origins of the Master Sword that can't be ignored.

Yeah, that was mostly a joke, anyway.

Edited by joeymartin64, 31 July 2009 - 12:29 AM.

[GuardianNinja]

Great... whats that mean, all the ones that arnt tingle? fantastic.

[MikePetersSucks]

AST isn't even mentioned at all, lol.

Also, this is an extremely silly topic, because what kind of idiot thinks that, for example, SC2 is canon and OOT isn't?

[Masamune]

Why aren't the Tingle games canon, anyways? And yet the cartoon/comics are debatable.

And can both versions of Twilight Princess be canon? They are mirror versions of eachother, after all... (all we needed was for mirror Link to have an evil goatee in the Wii version)

Edited by Masamune, 31 July 2009 - 01:42 PM.

[joeymartin64]

AST isn't even mentioned at all, lol.

Also, this is an extremely silly topic, because what kind of idiot thinks that, for example, SC2 is canon and OOT isn't?

Different strokes for different folks. I've seen the theory that SSB is canon, taking place in a "Nintendo universe" in the same vein as the Marvel and DC universes.

[GuardianNinja]

SSB as canon? someone needs kicked.

[SOAP]

I'm probably alone here, but I consider FSA as sort of an enhanced re-telling of FS, sort of like how several different Castlevania games are all re-tellings of Simon's first quest (Super Castlevania IV, for example). Different levels, different bosses, same story. Yeah, FS and FSA have different stuff happening during the endings, but the prologues and openings are basically identical. There's also a bit of a demo/full game relationship going on, as well.

EDIT: <NOT COMPLETELY SERIOUS>I also consider the SNES ALttP version, rather than the GBA version, because I hate Fujiko Takimoto, and I'm petty like that.</NOT COMPLETELY SERIOUS>

I thought FSA's intro recapped the events of FS in it's intro. That could be why they're so similar but there's a reference to the last time Link fought Vaati and Link being reminded that he knows what will happen if he pulls the Four Sword. It's not much but FS never had that much of a story to begin with.

[joeymartin64]

SSB as canon? someone needs kicked.

Sounds like bullshit to me, too, but who am I to judge?

I thought FSA's intro recapped the events of FS in it's intro. That could be why they're so similar but there's a reference to the last time Link fought Vaati and Link being reminded that he knows what will happen if he pulls the Four Sword. It's not much but FS never had that much of a story to begin with.

We've covered this, and you're absolutely right.

FSA retells the basic plot of FS in its intro, though, and they make references to the last time Link fought Vaati. I think the game's canon, but really just serves as a prelude to FSA story-wise.

Oh, it does? I only played the damn thing once, due to my undying contempt for that story arc, so if that's true, I take back what I said before.

EDIT: Checked the stickied thread.

Zelda's childhood friend, a young boy named Link, claimed the strange power of the Four Sword and fought Vaati fiercely. In the end, he succeeded in sealing Vaati away once again.

Officially taken back.

[GuardianNinja]

SSB as canon? someone needs kicked.

Sounds like bullshit to me, too, but who am I to judge?

Atleast in soulcaliber, Link was trying to do something /actual storyline// But I still consider it a cameo, cause well, it wasss.

I thought FSA's intro recapped the events of FS in it's intro. That could be why they're so similar but there's a reference to the last time Link fought Vaati and Link being reminded that he knows what will happen if he pulls the Four Sword. It's not much but FS never had that much of a story to begin with.

We've covered this, and you're absolutely right.

Minish Cap?

[joeymartin64]

Atleast in soulcaliber, Link was trying to do something /actual storyline// But I still consider it a cameo, cause well, it wasss.

You don't have to convince me. I don't consider either canon, but if someone else wants to, that's their prerogative.

Minish Cap?

FSA's opening mentions two previous defeats of Vaati, the second of which matches up with FS (and consequently doesn't match up with TMC at all), and explicity names Link as the hero, heavily implying it's the same Link as seen in the game (they never use the name otherwise, just "ancient hero" and stuff, as this very opening does with TMC Link).

EDIT: Oh, wait. It's the manual. Eh.

Edited by joeymartin64, 31 July 2009 - 09:00 PM.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

None of the games are canon.

[GuardianNinja]

Nicely said lol

[Person]

SSB as canon would require a ton of fanwank to get it to work, as it features stuff like both old and young OoT Link (lol time paradox) as well as both TP and TWW Link. TP Link also has a fairy, which he never had in-story (well, besides the pointer).
I did run into someone once who argued the manga were canon. It was hilarious. He even argued that the manga "fit canon better" than the games did.

[GuardianNinja]

Possibly because theres a constant storyline, I can sympathize with Manga canon.

[joeymartin64]

That does have something at least resembling a point, what with the mangas being nothing but the storytelling. The stuff they change/make up obviously wouldn't cut it, though.

[Person]

That does have something at least resembling a point, what with the mangas being nothing but the storytelling. The stuff they change/make up obviously wouldn't cut it, though.

The manga don't ever attempt to maintain consistency, though. For example, the TMC and FSA mangas directly contradict each other, even though in the games TMC is a prequel to FSA.

[Masamune]

That's too bad. It would be interesting if the mangas at least maintained their own consistent timeline. Then Manga Timeliners could come here and make fun of us and we'd all feel bad.

[joeymartin64]

That does have something at least resembling a point, what with the mangas being nothing but the storytelling. The stuff they change/make up obviously wouldn't cut it, though.

The manga don't ever attempt to maintain consistency, though. For example, the TMC and FSA mangas directly contradict each other, even though in the games TMC is a prequel to FSA.

Yeah, that's the problem. I kinda wish there were some adaptations that were more loyal. As in, they'd embellish a little for characterization, maybe even shift some details (in OoT's, I think the spirit from the well forming Dark Link worked extremely well, arguably even better than what the game did), but wouldn't add in unecessary stuff, or change character origins (Volvagia).

EDIT: Also, holy shit, Gamehiker in Storyline!

Edited by joeymartin64, 01 August 2009 - 09:32 PM.

[Masamune]

Yes. I was the guy up there arguing for the canonicity of Tingle games and was ignored.

[joeymartin64]

Oh, yes, that. Which Tingle games, by the way? Just Rupeeland, or what else?

[Masamune]

Rupeeland and the one coming out, where Tingle is a pimp.

[Person]

The Tingle games are spin-offs, though. They really aren't a part of the main series, like Link's Crossbow Training or Super Smash Bros., and aren't really listed among the '"Zelda" games by Nintendo. They're in their own series, sort of like the Donkey Kong and Mario series. In Mario, Donkey Kong is usually assumed to be the same one as in the arcade game, but in the DKC series, he's that Donkey Kong's grandson. Or the various contradictions between the Mario platformer games and the RPGs, or the Mario kart games. While a lot of people want them non-canon because they just hate Tingle, some say they're non-canon by virtue or being a spin-off series.

[Masamune]

The Wario series is a spinoff of the Mario series, yet that remains very much in the Mario 'canon'. The Donkey Kong series isn't that far out of the Mario canon either, though there are some contradicting information (but there was contradictory information in the DKC series by itself). And it's not assumed that the DK in the Mario sports series is the Arcade one. In fact, he's been referred to as separate to the Arcade Donkey Kong. Mario Superstar Baseball comes to mind here. In any case, the Mario series is a terrible one to draw a parallel, because it's even messier than the Zelda series is. A better example are spinoffs like Frasier from Cheers, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine from Star Trek: The Next Generation, Stargate: Atlantis from Stargate: SG-1, and so forth. How does a spinoff render something noncanon? Is Stargate Atlantis not canon to the Stargate universe?

The Tingle games aren't comparable to Link's Crossbow Training or Super Smash Bros. Hell, even those two games aren't comparable to eachother. Link's Crossbow Training is canon insofar as Metroid Prime Pinball is. It's a simplification of another game (in this case Twilight Princess), portrayed in a different style. Super Smash Bros. is simply a crossover game, better compared to Soul Calibur II. The Tingle games, however, follow a major character from the Zelda series into his own series of games, much like Wario. The connections are loosely defined, but it still features some cameos of major Zelda characters (the Great Deku Tree comes to mind).

[joeymartin64]

Ever since Rare DK's inclusion in Mario Kart 64, it's obvious that it's the DKC DK. Characters from that era of the DK timeline (aside: I can't believe I just said "DK timeline") have turned up in a lot of Mario games. Hell, there are damn near enough of 'em in Sluggers to fill a team. Arcade DK is Cranky Kong, and has been ever since DKC. Whether the current DK is Cranky's son (and thus, an older DK Jr.) or grandson is debatable, as the DK games contradict the hell out of each other. Personally, I like to think it's his son, just to avoid having DK Jr. drop off the map without a trace. But, uh, maybe this isn't the best place to discuss this. Hey, Masa, does Gamehiker still have that Mario section of its forum? If so, how active is it?

Edited by joeymartin64, 02 August 2009 - 01:17 AM.

[GuardianNinja]

In DK64 its revealed within 10 minutes of gameplay that Kranky is DK's dad.

[MikePetersSucks]

Possibly because theres a constant storyline, I can sympathize with Manga canon.

Yea, the manga is so totally consistent. Except not even the OOT and MM mangas match up, and TMC manga has Vaati turn into a good guy, and then he's suddenly a villain in FSA's manga. and LTTP manga....is....such total shit.

[GuardianNinja]

How isnt OoT and MM consistent???????????!! Your reasoning?

After he defeats ganon in OoT he reverts to a kid and isnt recognized by guys who thought he would be bigger, and then he heads into the lost woods and winds up in termina, at no point is it inconsistent.