94 replies to this topic

[canas is back]

If the triforce really left ganondorf, where did it go??

Also, does the triforce have to be broken to remain outside of the SR??

(I've got more questions if I can find that page)

[Fin]

I doubt what condition the Triforce is in makes any difference to its location (unless you try to take it to a completely different dimension, like another timeline, obviously). I'd say it returned to the sacred realm when Ganondorf died.

(EDIT: Hey, I just noticed how the second sentence contradicts the first! Well, hopefully you got my meaning. >_>)

Here are my own ideas on the Triforce in Twilight Princess.

The Triforce really did go to Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda by the design of the gods, who wanted to put Hyrule through this trial for whatever reason (possibly so that the deeds of the new hero will bring inspiration to the people of Hyrule). Thus, when Ganondorf was defeated, they returned the Triforce to the sacred realm. Oh, and since the Triforce currently had owners, the portal in the Temple of Time disappeared, which is why Link wasn't transported there when he drew the sword.

These are just my thoughts, mind. I'm not trying to say these are the correct answers. >_>

Edited by Fintin O'Brien, 09 February 2009 - 02:13 PM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

We can't say what became of the Triforce of Power, as Ganon's never died in this way while possessing it before.

[Showsni]

If the triforce really left ganondorf, where did it go??

Also, does the triforce have to be broken to remain outside of the SR??

(I've got more questions if I can find that page)

Which game are you talking about?

And no, the triforce can remain whole outside of the SR; see AoL's backstory, Oracles, etc.

[MikePetersSucks]

I always imagined that after TP, the Triforce of Power went to wait in the Sacred Realm, with the other pieces following after the natural deaths of their keepers, allowing for the Triforce to be in the perfect place for LTTP.

[Duke Serkol]

It could well be that way, but the question is: why?

Why would it behave that way? It doesn't in LoZ for one.

I think it has something to do with the way the Triforce was acquired (prior to TP).

[Impossible]

Three ideas...

1. Link and Zelda took it.
2. It's waiting somewhere for its next rightful owner.
3. It split into pieces a la TWW.

[MikePetersSucks]

It could well be that way, but the question is: why?

Why would it behave that way? It doesn't in LoZ for one.

Well, for one, the Triforce of Power didn't seem to have been in LoZ Ganon's body, so we don't really have a precedent of characters dying while a Triforce piece is within their soul.

[Duke Serkol]

The concept of having a Triforce part inside yourself was introduced by OoT, but we can't really tell wheter this happens in LoZ or not. We don't get to see anybody's hands up close, do we?
In fact looking at games released after OoT, one has to wonder if there even is another way of carrying a Triforce part other than letting it sink in.
In any case, Ganondorf expected to be able to collect the Triforce aprt from Link's body in OoT so it is reasonable to assume that it normally would be left behind, as in LoZ.

But responding to Impossible's first option, I find it doubtful that Link and Zelda could have ended up with the whole Triforce after TP. If they had, they could have brought Midna back themselves, without the Light Spirits stepping in... and they could have brought back the people of Kakariko, just as Link brought back all those who died during ALttP.

[Crimson Lego]

In my opinion, the Triforce of Power probably ditched Ganondorf after he got busted in the chest by the Master Sword and went back to the Sacred Realm. Link and Zelda still have the ToC and ToW, respectively.

In the WW timeline, the Triforce had formed again and it probably just went back to the Sacred Realm.

[Showsni]

The concept of having a Triforce part inside yourself was introduced by OoT, but we can't really tell wheter this happens in LoZ or not. We don't get to see anybody's hands up close, do we?

Or, well, the comic book, claiming it happened during Adventure of Link.

[Crimson Lego]

I also have a short question: when Link puts the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time in TP (as seen in the credits of TP), does he still have the Triforce?

[FDL]

I think we'll probably have to wait for the next game to figure out what happened to the Triforce. And that goes for either timeline, as both are inconclusive IMO.

[MikePetersSucks]

The concept of having a Triforce part inside yourself was introduced by OoT, but we can't really tell wheter this happens in LoZ or not. We don't get to see anybody's hands up close, do we?

The comics, though not canon, state they the Triforces remained as physical objects, and if Ganon absorbed the piece into himself, I think a big deal'd of been made of it.

I also have a short question: when Link puts the Master Sword back in the Pedestal of Time in TP (as seen in the credits of TP), does he still have the Triforce?

Yes.

[Showsni]

The comics, though not canon, state they the Triforces remained as physical objects, and if Ganon absorbed the piece into himself, I think a big deal'd of been made of it.

Except the Triforce of Courage, which they state was inside Link's body.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yea, but that was narmy and weird and didn't even play out theway typical Triforce embodiments do. And seems to contradict the canon, where it's in a temple.

[Uhneed]

Three ideas...

1. Link and Zelda took it.

FSA's ending does hint that the Royal family ended up with it.

Or maybe Zelda just had a "grail" shaped beacon.

Edited by Uhneed, 12 February 2009 - 07:05 PM.

[Average Gamer]

FSA's ending does hint that the Royal family ended up with it.

Wasn't that just a lighting effect to make the final shot look cool? If the Royal Family had the Triforce, why was it of no use during the game?

[MikePetersSucks]

Oh wow, Hyrule Castle has a Triforce shaped crest in a hall. Just like every important building does in EVERY HALL.

It's not the Triforce, dude, that's silly.

[Uhneed]

It's not the Triforce, dude, that's silly.

That's what I implied with the second sentence.

[MikePetersSucks]

Then why bother submitting the idea at ALL? It's not like you're the first person to have submitted it, so to suggest an unoriginal idea and to discredit it in the same post is a waste of time.

[Evilsbane]

Well, let's think this through:

In OoT, Ganonodof seized the Triforce and it split in three, going to three chosen bearers. Link leaves the AT at the end and the ToC shatters as a result. The popular theory is that when he arrived in the past, it was replaced by the ToC of the CT, causing the Triforce to split in three anyway.

In TWW, We see the ToW has also been shattered and a shard has been passed down to Tetra, with Daphnes owning the other shard. When Tetra and Link reassemble the ToW and ToC respectively, Ganondorf attempts to take them. Note: Although he incapacitates both Zelda and Link in turn, he doesn't kill them. Instead, he holds both their hands and the Triforce reassembles. Why did he not kill them and take the Crests from their remains in the way that Link retrieves the ToP from Ganon's ashes in TLoZ? When Daphnes wishes on the reassembled Triforce, it flies away. Has it returned to the Sacred Realm?

In TP, we see that the crests have been passed down somehow to Zelda and Link, though Link is not even aware he is in possession of the ToC. Presumably, when a chosen bearer dies, the crest they have chooses a new bearer. This would explain why Ganon couldn't kill the two in TWW: there'd be no telling where the crests would go and he'd have to start all over again. However, this is still inconsistent with TLoZ.

In ALttP, Ganon is said to possess the Triforce, though the implications of prequel games such as OoT would suggest that he only possesses the ToP which would require that the Triforce in the next room is a depiction of the Triforce having just been 'reassembled' á la TWW.

In TLoZ, the ToW has again been fragmented and is reassembled by Link. When Ganon is slain, Link is able to retrieve the ToP from the ashes. Is Link the new bearer the ToP has chosen in the absence of Ganon?

In TAoL, the ToC is lying hidden in the Great Palace, seemingly in possession of an old man. Is the old man the chosen bearer? Probably not, since the Great King hid the ToC in the Great Palace because he could find no suitable bearer. Is the old man a Sage who is protecting the ToC until a new bearer proves himself? Possibly. Is he an apparition created by the King's 'test'? Also a possibility. What we do know is that the ToC is whole, unconnected to the other two crests and yet has not chosen a bearer. This is unique to the series.

Conclusions I draw from all of this are:
1- When a chosen bearer dies, their crests goes to a new chosen bearer.
2- This rule changes in TAoL's BS as a result of the Great King's wish/spell.
3- Since TP is either before TAoL's BS or in another timeline, Ganon's death in TP means that the ToP goes to a new chosen bearer. This would presumably be a reincarnation of the previous bearer.
4- If FSA is a sequel to TWW, then FSA Ganondorf possesses no ToP. If it is a sequel to TP, then FSA Ganondorf possesses the ToP (as a chosen bearer after the original Ganon's death) but this is not mentioned.
5- The placement of ALttP using this reasoning is still inconclusive, since we cannot really be sure whether Ganon indeed possesses the whole Triforce. If he only possesses the ToP, this would suggest that it is before TAoL's BS since Link and Zelda would then have to have been chosen bearers for the Triforce to reassemble, as Link is definitely not aware of being a bearer. If Ganon possesses the whole thing (as most believe), then I can't say where ALttP goes.

Edited by Evilsbane, 21 February 2009 - 12:19 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Presumably, when a chosen bearer dies, the crest they have chooses a new bearer.

I imagine the piece simply entered their reincarnation, since the Triforce pieces are pretty much in the bearer's soul.

In ALttP, Ganon is said to possess the Triforce, though the implications of prequel games such as OoT would suggest that he only possesses the ToP which would require that the Triforce in the next room is a depiction of the Triforce having just been 'reassembled' á la TWW.

That's nonsense. Ganon got a wish from it, he had the whole thing.

In TLoZ, the ToW has again been fragmented and is reassembled by Link. When Ganon is slain, Link is able to retrieve the ToP from the ashes. Is Link the new bearer the ToP has chosen in the absence of Ganon?

Ganon physically had the ToP, instead of having it in his soul.

Is the old man the chosen bearer? Probably not, since the Great King hid the ToC in the Great Palace because he could find no suitable bearer. Is the old man a Sage who is protecting the ToC until a new bearer proves himself? Possibly. Is he an apparition created by the King's 'test'?

I always imagined it was the King's ghost, personally.

[Evilsbane]

I imagine the piece simply entered their reincarnation, since the Triforce pieces are pretty much in the bearer's soul.

Technically I meant the same thing, since the reincarnation would be the new chosen bearer. So yeah.

That's nonsense. Ganon got a wish from it, he had the whole thing.

It's not quite as simple as that. If you think of it from a 1998 point of view, when OoT was released, it was not meant to be part of the backstory of the Seal War, it WAS the Seal War. Meaning that when ALttP's relates how Ganon got the Triforce, it is referring directly to OoT. There's no 'he got the ToP and then got the rest of it for reasons unknown', it just says he laid his hands on the Triforce and makes a wish. There's nothing to say that, after he made his wish, he was left with the whole thing. Daphnes, for example, made a wish on the whole Triforce but he didn't keep it - it immediately flew away. The legend that Sheik relates about how the Triforce splits when one with an imbalanced heart touches it:

The Triforce...the sacred triangle...
it is a balance that weighs the
three forces:
Power, Wisdom and Courage.
If the heart of the one who holds
the sacred triangle has all three
forces in balance, that one will
gain the True Force to govern all.
But, if that one's heart is not in
balance, the Triforce will separate
into three parts:
Power, Wisdom and Courage.
Only one part will remain for the
one who touched the Triforce...the
part representing the force that
one most believes in.
If that one seeks the True Force,
that one must acquire the two
lost parts.
Those two parts will be held
within others chosen by destiny,
who will bear the Triforce mark
on the backs of their hands.

Seven years ago, Ganondorf, the
King of Thieves, used the door
you opened in the Temple of Time
and entered the Sacred Realm.
But when he laid his hands on the
Triforce, the legend came true.

is an explanation of The Essence of the Triforce's distinction between what happens when a good person makes a wish and when an evil person makes a wish:

If a person with a good heart
touches it, it will make his good
wishes come true... If an evil-
hearted person touches it, it
grants his evil wishes.
The stronger the wish, the
more powerful the Triforce's
expression of that wish.
Ganon's wish was to conquer
the world. That wish changed
the Golden Land into
the Dark World.
After building up his power,
Ganon planned to go on to the
Light World to fulfill his wish.

The Triforce doesn't judge between good and evil but if there is imbalance, then you don't receive the 'True Force' and you only get an 'expression' of the wish and only a part of the Triforce. Admittedly, the connection between OoT and ALttP has been weakened considerably over the years but you must admit that at the time of OoT's release, this is what was meant. After all, Ganon ruled Hyrule for the next seven years so his wish WAS granted.

Ganon physically had the ToP, instead of having it in his soul.

I don't understand why the ToP wouldn't become part of Ganon's soul when he seized it. Upon completing the ToC, it became part of the soul of the Hero of Winds.

I always imagined it was the King's ghost, personally.

That's sort of what I meant by the apparition: the King's wish caused his spirit to linger until the wish was fulfilled. This is conjecture, though.

Edited by Evilsbane, 21 February 2009 - 04:09 PM.

[Uhneed]

Then why bother submitting the idea at ALL? It's not like you're the first person to have submitted it, so to suggest an unoriginal idea and to discredit it in the same post is a waste of time.

I've seen people try to use it as evidence before and no-one in this topic mentioned it so I thought I would bring it up, sorry.

I don't understand why the ToP wouldn't become part of Ganon's soul when he seized it. Upon completing the ToC, it became part of the soul of the Hero of Winds.

That's not exactly true. It was only in the possession of the Hero of Winds once he "rebuilt" it. It wasn't embedded within him until he sailed to the tower of gods.

HoW gets the last Triforce shard:
Around 8:00 http://www.youtube.c...g...EF&index=63

HoW gets ToC embedded within him.
Around 0:16 http://www.youtube.c...0...EF&index=64

[Evilsbane]

That's not exactly true. It was only in the possession of the Hero of Winds once he "rebuilt" it. It wasn't embedded within him until he sailed to the tower of gods.

That's a good point. Though it leaves me confused as to why the ToP acknowledges Ganon as its rightful owner sometimes (see: TP) and not others (see: TLoZ).

[Duke Serkol]

leaves me confused as to why the ToP acknowledges Ganon as its rightful owner sometimes (see: TP) and not others (see: TLoZ).

The proper way to voice this doubt should be "why it would acknowledge Ganon as its rightful owner sometimes (see: TP) and not others".
Other than the fact that the concept was fully developed only with oOT, we have no proof that Ganon did not bear a Triforce Mark in LoZ (being it a 2D game like AoL and Oracles), and that's something that could be easily retconned by later games.

With that said, now that TWW and TP are out, we know that Ganon has died at least once in each timeline, so that could have something to do with this (if FSA Ganondorf was an all new incarnation).

[MikePetersSucks]

It's not quite as simple as that. If you think of it from a 1998 point of view, when OoT was released, it was not meant to be part of the backstory of the Seal War, it WAS the Seal War.

It isn't anymore, and it made very little sense back then, anyway.

There's nothing to say that, after he made his wish, he was left with the whole thing. Daphnes, for example, made a wish on the whole Triforce but he didn't keep it - it immediately flew away.

LTTP Ganon has the entire Triforce in his lair right behind him. as for Daphnes, I figured it was REALLY REALLY OBVIOUS that sending the Triforce away was part of his wish.

The Triforce doesn't judge between good and evil but if there is imbalance, then you don't receive the 'True Force' and you only get an 'expression' of the wish and only a part of the Triforce. Admittedly, the connection between OoT and ALttP has been weakened considerably over the years but you must admit that at the time of OoT's release, this is what was meant. After all, Ganon ruled Hyrule for the next seven years so his wish WAS granted.

Sorry, no, not comparable. You can't compare Ganondorf's manual conquering of Hyrule by his own hand to the Triforce reshaping an entire world to what Ganon wanted.

I don't understand why the ToP wouldn't become part of Ganon's soul when he seized it. Upon completing the ToC, it became part of the soul of the Hero of Winds.

The Hero of Winds thing was addressed, but as for the other part, I imagined that it was either A) Part of the Great King's deathbed wish for a centuries long gambit to have the Triforce reunited by a chosen one, or B) Ganon never earned the Triforce of Power since he stole it from the Royal Family. Most likely B, in which case Ganon has no rightful ownership of the ToP whatsoever.

[Evilsbane]

It isn't anymore, and it made very little sense back then, anyway.

How did it not make sense?

LTTP Ganon has the entire Triforce in his lair right behind him. as for Daphnes, I figured it was REALLY REALLY OBVIOUS that sending the Triforce away was part of his wish.

There's a difference between ALttP Ganon having the whole Triforce (which I'll refer to as ToX), and the ToX appearing once you've defeated Ganon. The ToX appeared when Ganon beat Link and Zelda in TWW, no?

Sorry, no, not comparable. You can't compare Ganondorf's manual conquering of Hyrule by his own hand to the Triforce reshaping an entire world to what Ganon wanted.

Which part of his conquest was manual?

The Hero of Winds thing was addressed, but as for the other part, I imagined that it was either A) Part of the Great King's deathbed wish for a centuries long gambit to have the Triforce reunited by a chosen one, or B) Ganon never earned the Triforce of Power since he stole it from the Royal Family. Most likely B, in which case Ganon has no rightful ownership of the ToP whatsoever.

If the rightful owners were the Royal Family, how was he able to steal the ToP? Wouldn't it have been in Zelda's hand, too?

[MikePetersSucks]

How did it not make sense?

Plotholes up the wazoo. "Hey um...you know how we said Ganon seized the whole Triforce, and these seven human old guys sealed him up with the help of the knights of Hyrule? Well it turns out he only got one Triforce piece, there was only one guy helping them, and they were pretty much all chicks from different races. But everyone somehow forgot about that, Ganon seized the other two Triforces with...plot magic and the family trees of the Sages somehow turned into pure Hylian blood. Shut up, OOT is the Seal War we said so!"

There's a difference between ALttP Ganon having the whole Triforce (which I'll refer to as ToX), and the ToX appearing once you've defeated Ganon. The ToX appeared when Ganon beat Link and Zelda in TWW, no?

Right, rising from all three of them. As opposed to the entire thing being in a room right behind Ganon's fucking throne room which he's been sitting in for centuries. Unless he totally had no goddamned idea the Triforce was behind him, it makes no sense. Also, the game says Ganon has the Triforce, you lose.

Which part of his conquest was manual?

In OOT? The whole taking down a castle thing, and corrupting some temples, and recruiting monsters, and killing those that oppose him, etc. Basically acting like a real warlord who happened to have divine powers. As opposed to LTTP Ganon who made a wish and got the entire Sacred Realm magically transformed into his ideal world at the tip of a hat.

If the rightful owners were the Royal Family, how was he able to steal the ToP? Wouldn't it have been in Zelda's hand, too?

If extracanonical materials, and the implications of AOL are anything to go by, than the Triforce of Power and the Triforce of Wisdom were just floating on some pedestals in the castle somewhere. It's pretty obvious that in the LOZ/AOL era the Triforce pieces aren't entering people's bodies.