76 replies to this topic

[wring]

I haven't played Twilight Princess, which is why I'm asking the people who have played it. Is it possible that A Link to the Past happens BEFORE Twilight Princess. Allot of people are saying the at the end of Twilight Princess LInk puts the MS back in the forest for the LttP link to pick it up, but couldn't it work the other way around, and Alttp Link could put it back in the forest for TP LInk to pull it out. In begining and ends of both games the status of the Master Sword is the same, resting in the platform in the middle of a forest. So really the Master Sword can't tell us which one came first.

Now about the Dark World, it should've been erased by time travel. But maybe the power of the Triforce is infinately more powerful then the power of the Ocarina. The Ocarina of Time can't undo the Triforce's wish even though it undoes everything else. So while Ganondorf is still alive, the Dark world must still exsist, even if you go back in time to before the wish occured.

As for Ganondorf being sealed in the Dark World, ummm... Fs/FSA??? I don't really have any other explanation on that one.

I think Hylians are rare in TP, too, but I could be wrong on that one.

but even if you ignore the rest of my theory, is it possible to place A Link to the Past before Twilight Princess?

Edited by wring, 05 December 2008 - 08:47 PM.

[Showsni]

As a direct prequel, you mean? Well, the state of the triforce doesn't match up nicely. At the end of ALttP, the whole triforce is in Link's hands; at the beginning of TP, though it's not explicitly mentioned, it seems to be following the "bloodline" of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf... possibly. Then there's Ganondorf's execution scene; you'd have to ignore any possible ties that might have to any OoT timeline, and call him a new Ganondorf; which is possible, I think... Been a while since I played TP. I don't think there are explicit contradictions, unless I'm forgetting some; you just have to ignore some elements which might match up better with OoT.

[Raien]

Aonuma has confirmed that the ends in OoT's ending lead directly into the back-story of TP, which makes it impossible for ALttP to take place in-between.

[CID Farwin]

I haven't played Twilight Princess,

*sigh*

Play it. Then we'll talk.

[MikePetersSucks]

Not only that, but the forest in TP has fragments of the Temple of Time still around it, and you can even visit it with some time travel. So: Temple > Ruined Temple w/ Forest > Forest. AKA, OOT, TP, LTTP.

And it's not the only ingame evidence connecting OOT and LTTP this way.

Now about the Dark World, it should've been erased by time travel. But maybe the power of the Triforce is infinately more powerful then the power of the Ocarina. The Ocarina of Time can't undo the Triforce's wish even though it undoes everything else. So while Ganondorf is still alive, the Dark world must still exsist, even if you go back in time to before the wish occured.

That would mean that the Triforce grants wishes before they're made, and that's just stupid. Infinity doesn't work that way.

Besides, the Dark World isn't even in TP; the Twilight Realm is a different world entirely.

I think Hylians are rare in TP, too, but I could be wrong on that one.

Ganon dies at the end of TP, he breaks OUT of a seal.

[Impossible]

I haven't played Twilight Princess,

Stopped reading. Why must you do these things?

[Raien]

Stopped reading. Why must you do these things?

To quote myself three weeks ago:

Is anyone else feeling deja vu? This has happened at least five times now:

1) Wring proposes a weird timeline theory relating to the story of a particular game.
2) Other theorists explain why Wring's theory doesn't work.
3) Wring doesn't see anything wrong with it, but admits he never played the game.
4) Other theorists tell Wring to play the game.
5) Wring plays the game and realises it didn't make sense after all.

Now, to be fair, wring is showing learning by asking whether the theory works before assuming it works, but it's funny how this same subject keeps reappearing.

Edited by Raian, 05 December 2008 - 08:32 PM.

[wring]

Yeah, I forgot about the temple of time's ruins.
Well, I gues since the topics dead nobody would mind if I went off topic a little bit.

How about this kind of logic.
Start out with the simple statement by that Ocarina of time guy.
OoT-LoZ-ALttP

Then add Wind Waker and Twilight Princess
OoT-WW
OoT-TP-LoZ-ALttP

Then add the Capcom games
MC-OoT-WW
MC-OoT/FS-TP-LoZ-ALttP-OoX

Then the final timeline
MC-OoT-WW/PH
MC-OoT/MM/FS/FSA-TP-LoZ/AoL-ALttP/LA-OoX

[MikePetersSucks]

Start out with the simple statement by that Ocarina of time guy.
OoT-LoZ-ALttP

What "Ocarina of time guy"? Why does LOZ go before LTTP?

Then add the Capcom games
MC-OoT-WW
MC-OoT/FS-TP-LoZ-ALttP-OoX

By what reasoning do OOT and FS share the same Link?

Then the final timeline
MC-OoT-WW/PH
MC-OoT/MM/FS/FSA-TP-LoZ/AoL-ALttP/LA-OoX

Now OOT and FSA CAN'T have the same Link. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

[Lexxi Aileron]

I've entertained the idea that ALttP happens while Ganon is stuck in the Twilight Realm, as Zant says that Ganon has "already descended and been reborn in this world," but that would require that the Twilight Realm is the Sacred Realm, and I'm not sure that's likely enough.

Why does LOZ go before LTTP?

To be quite honest, I don't see why it matters either way.

[MikePetersSucks]

I've entertained the idea that ALttP happens while Ganon is stuck in the Twilight Realm, as Zant says that Ganon has "already descended and been reborn in this world," but that would require that the Twilight Realm is the Sacred Realm, and I'm not sure that's likely enough.

It's not likely at all. Like, 0%.

To be quite honest, I don't see why it matters either way.

It probably doesn't, but since most people place it the other way around, I'm interested in wring's reasoning.

[Impossible]

To be quite honest, I don't see why it matters either way.

Because to everyone but you, the status of Ganon and the Triforce between games is relevant, and we try to ignore blatant contradictions in those areas by keeping our theories in line with developer intent.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Because to everyone but you, the status of Ganon and the Triforce between games is relevant, and we try to ignore blatant contradictions in those areas by keeping our theories in line with developer intent.

I don't see how the status of Ganon or the Triforce is impacted whether ALttP is before or after LoZ. Ganon is dead at the end of both games, and no game perfectly explains either of his appearances. Any condition that would cause the Triforce to be reunited needs to happen prior to either game and could lead into either game, and both games end with the Triforce complete.

[Raien]

I personally believe that the concept of inheriting the Triforce, which began in AoL's BS, implies that the Triforce will remain in the possession of the Hyrulian Royal Family, thus negating the relevance of the Sacred Realm. I am not convinced that the Triforce returns to the Sacred Realm upon the completion of a wish.

That's my reasoning for a ALttP>LoZ placement, on top of a general thematic consistency.

[Lexxi Aileron]

As you know I once subscribed to this idea, but I decided later on that:

1) Not listening to creator quotes had pretty much screwed my timeline prior to the Nindori interview;
2) Link =/= the Royal Family, and thus there was no evidence that pointed to the Triforce descending into their hands;
3) Daphnes, on the other hand, is a member of the Royal Family, and his wishes are in line with those of the scroll-writer from AoL who left the Triforce behind

Thus, I abandoned the idea that ALttP-LoZ in favor of LoZ-ALttP, with TWW explaining how the Triforce came to be where it was in LoZ. I still have no idea how the Triforce got back into the Sacred Realm for ALttP, but that's a problem with any theory. I'm currently leaning towards lingering wishes on the Triforce by either Daphnes or AoL Link being fulfilled in Oracles and/or FSA, with the Triforce returning once its work is done, but honestly that's not a very strong case (but it's all we've got, I'm afraid).

How is it that you propose the Triforce gets back in the Sacred Realm in ALttP, then?

[Raien]

How is it that you propose the Triforce gets back in the Sacred Realm in ALttP, then?

The goddesses giveth and the goddesses taketh away.

[MikePetersSucks]

I don't see how the status of Ganon or the Triforce is impacted whether ALttP is before or after LoZ. Ganon is dead at the end of both games, and no game perfectly explains either of his appearances. Any condition that would cause the Triforce to be reunited needs to happen prior to either game and could lead into either game, and both games end with the Triforce complete.

LTTP Ganon's origin is pretty adequately established, as for the fact that the Triforce was in the Sacred Realm for a long ass time.

And LOZ doesn't end with the Triforce complete, you know that.

2) Link =/= the Royal Family, and thus there was no evidence that pointed to the Triforce descending into their hands;

He could've married into it. But regardless, I imagine Link the type who wouldn't keep such massive power, so he'll pass it to the people most worthy and deserving of it.

3) Daphnes, on the other hand, is a member of the Royal Family, and his wishes are in line with those of the scroll-writer from AoL who left the Triforce behind

Except no.

Thus, I abandoned the idea that ALttP-LoZ in favor of LoZ-ALttP, with TWW explaining how the Triforce came to be where it was in LoZ.

How does TWW's ending explain LoZ's Triforce placement? LTTP I can see.

How is it that you propose the Triforce gets back in the Sacred Realm in ALttP, then?

Either as the result of someone's wish, or maybe if not passed on to an heir, the Triforce returns to the Triforce when it's owner dies.

[Impossible]

I don't see how the status of Ganon or the Triforce is impacted whether ALttP is before or after LoZ. Ganon is dead at the end of both games, and no game perfectly explains either of his appearances. Any condition that would cause the Triforce to be reunited needs to happen prior to either game and could lead into either game, and both games end with the Triforce complete.

...Yet you ignore the fact that between AoL and ALttP, it would need to end up in the SR, and you also ignore the need for the AoL backstory. Wait, I thought that very contradiction of needing to assume the Triforce returns to the Sacred Realm is the single reason, against a MOUNTAIN of evidence to the contrary, that Nintendo simply cannot want us to believe that ALttP is after TP! Never mind that it's still an area of the timeline they're making games in, unlike the one you're talking about. One contradiction resulting from a currently empty gap in the timeline surely can't mean more than you creating the same contradictions and more by going against creator intent for other games, right?

How does TWW's ending explain LoZ's Triforce placement? LTTP I can see.

Ooh, I know this one. *grabs popcorn* Perhaps the most entertaining of Lex's more farcical theories.

Edited by Impossible, 07 December 2008 - 08:20 PM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

He could've married into it. But regardless, I imagine Link the type who wouldn't keep such massive power, so he'll pass it to the people most worthy and deserving of it.

This is fan-fic of the highest order because there is no evidence to back it up. No theory should be built on assumptions of what Link might've done after the end of the game without specific in-game evidence to prove it.

How does TWW's ending explain LoZ's Triforce placement? LTTP I can see.

ALttP: The last known owner of the Triforce was Link.
LoZ: The last known owner of the Triforce was the King of Hyrule.

TWW: The last known owner of the Triforce was the King of Hyrule.
LoZ: The last known owner of the Triforce was the King of Hyrule.

IMO there's much greater continuity between TWW and LoZ.

...Yet you ignore the fact that between AoL and ALttP, it would need to end up in the SR

An inevitable problem that every single theory including ALttP encounters.

you also ignore the need for the AoL backstory.

How is this true at all whatsoever? Or are you just pulling out whatever random problems you can think of without realizing that every theory leaves these things somewhat unexplained?

Wait, I thought that very contradiction of needing to assume the Triforce returns to the Sacred Realm is the single reason, against a MOUNTAIN of evidence to the contrary, that Nintendo simply cannot want us to believe that ALttP is after TP!

Actually, no.

Having to assume that the Triforce gets reunited instead of constantly passed down by the chosen holders (as the removed ending dialogue indicated) was the main problem, although I could see LoZ being after TP as this problem would not come up. Along with TP destroying the Mirror and removing any possibility that the IW happened on the Child timeline while simultaneously dropping tons of references to the IW story that fill in some of the details that were missing from OoT...yeah, I can't say I buy the 2D games falling after TP, especially not if FSA and ALttP are involved. There are a number of references to ALttP in TP, but there are just as many references to Adult OoT, and there are certainly more references to ALttP in OoT anyway as the entire story was more or less based on ALttP's backstory.

I see TP as more of a "parallel" to the Ganon games on the Adult timeline, with such things as Zora's Domain freezing, Ganon using a doppelganger to escape captivity, and the use of the cursed mirror serving as references to Adult OoT, ALttP, and FSA, respectively. Its status as a sequel to OoT makes it a TWW parallel, too, apparently.

[MikePetersSucks]

This is fan-fic of the highest order because there is no evidence to back it up. No theory should be built on assumptions of what Link might've done after the end of the game without specific in-game evidence to prove it.

You're one to fucking talk. It's certainly not fanfiction to posit the possibility of Link marrying Zelda, as it's one of the oldest tropes...EVER, and KST also makes it clear that Link doesn't care about the Triforce, since he left it behind in Hyrule.

ALttP: The last known owner of the Triforce was Link.
LoZ: The last known owner of the Triforce was the King of Hyrule.

TWW: The last known owner of the Triforce was the King of Hyrule.
LoZ: The last known owner of the Triforce was the King of Hyrule.

IMO there's much greater continuity between TWW and LoZ.

Yea, except in TWW, the King of Hyrule had no surviving daughters or sons, didn't rule over Hyrule with the Triforce, and after his wish, apparently sent it off where no one could find it. Oh, and Hyrule is fucking gone.

On the other hand, between LTTP and LoZ, there's an actual Hyrule, the Triforce is actually within Hyrule Castle where the Royal Family could go right up to the thing if not for Link's ownership...

An inevitable problem that every single theory including ALttP encounters.

Says you.

I see TP as more of a "parallel" to the Ganon games on the Adult timeline, with such things as Zora's Domain freezing, Ganon using a doppelganger to escape captivity, and the use of the cursed mirror serving as references to Adult OoT, ALttP, and FSA, respectively. Its status as a sequel to OoT makes it a TWW parallel, too, apparently.

Atleast we can agree on this.

[Impossible]

This is fan-fic of the highest order because there is no evidence to back it up. No theory should be built on assumptions of what Link might've done after the end of the game without specific in-game evidence to prove it.

Nonono, fanfic of the highest order is purporting that Hyrule comes to exist again after TWW. The fact is, Link obtained the Triforce, returned to Hyrule (now the master of the Triforce), then he went off on a quest outside of Hyrule. Where do you think it's going to end up? It's not speculation or fanfiction, it's merely logical filling in of gaps, something we do all the time (like with FSA-ALttP stuff). Link could have married Zelda, or he could merely have left the Triforce behind. Only his descendants or a King could have used it... maybe both. The fact is, we have to make a NATURAL ASSUMPTION that the Triforce remained in Hyrule after ALttP Link, as there's no reason to believe otherwise. Hence AoL's backstory. Makes a shitload more sense than the way you want it. Hell, your awful explanation for Ganon and the SR seal is bad enough without tossing another death - as the NOT YET EXISTING PIG GANON - in LoZ in there. You're so damn self-destructive.

An inevitable problem that every single theory including ALttP encounters.

I'm glad we agree that putting ALttP after TP is now inevitable, as the only contradiction is a necessity. And isn't a big goddamn deal in an unfinished series following from an ending that is still the most recent one in a major game.

How is this true at all whatsoever? Or are you just pulling out whatever random problems you can think of without realizing that every theory leaves these things somewhat unexplained?

Um, only your theory leaves this somewhat unexplained. You think the Sleeping Zelda story which occurs in Hyrule and has various other characters involved happens in two minutes in TWW's ending before the King dies. Nobody else has trouble with this.

There are a number of references to ALttP in TP, but there are just as many references to Adult OoT

Huh? This is fallacious arguing of the highest order. This suggests that the argument is that TP either belongs on the same timeline as ALttP, or on the same timeline as Adult OoT, which is blatantly false.

[Raien]

AoL's King of Hyrule makes it clear that the Triforce can be passed from one person to another. That's not fanfiction.

[wring]

If you look at the catologing creator comments topic, a bunch of people at nintendo have stated the OoT-LoZ-AlttP order as the correct one.
I think it goes like this.
Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask is the imprisoning war. Twilight Princess explains how the Triforce left the Sacred Realm. Legend of Zelda and Adventures show the Triforce being put back together, and then somehow the Triforce makes its way back into the Sacred Realm for Link to the Past.

Four Sword Adventures I put directly after Ocarina of Time because if you think about it. At the end of Ocarina of Time Link goes back in time to the beginning of the game and stops Ganondorf from taking over. Zelda doesn't flee the castle for her life, the Sages don't awaken, and Ganondorf doesn't touch the Triforce. So Ganondorf has to be doing something. In Four Sword Adventures, Ganondorf is unknown, and Link and Zelda are childhood friends. Ganondorf could be unknown because he hasn't done anything wrong yet because Link stopped him. Link and Zelda could've met at the end of Ocarina of Time. And Four Sword Adventures could be what the creators were talking about when they said Ganondorf does something so bad that the Sages decide to execute him. And its the only place on the timeline I could put it without it creating major problems, or two Ganondorfs. And when I played Four Sword Adventure, the whole game just screamed Ocarina of Time, although the gameplay and graphics were more like Link to the Past.

[Raien]

If you look at the catologing creator comments topic, a bunch of people at nintendo have stated the OoT-LoZ-AlttP order as the correct one.

Actually, they haven't, although I can see how you reached that conclusion.

Miyamoto was the first and only person at Nintendo EAD who stated the LoZ-ALttP order. Dan Owsen of Nintendo of America, who was famous for mistranslating the original ALttP script, simply quoted Miyamoto. Other developers referred to ALttP as a "sequel", but in the context of gameplay. AoL moved away from LoZ's gameplay and ALttP restored that gameplay, so ALttP was viewed as the "true sequel" to LoZ.

Edited by Raian, 08 December 2008 - 10:05 AM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

AoL's King of Hyrule makes it clear that the Triforce can be passed from one person to another. That's not fanfiction.

What is fanfiction is the statement "Link left the Triforce behind for the royal family" (at least as far as I know, as I said I haven't played AST all the way through). As far as I can tell, this is not a self-evident fact and requires the assumption that ALttP is before LoZ to even be remotely necessary.

Nonono, fanfic of the highest order is purporting that Hyrule comes to exist again after TWW.

Besides concepts of such being developed straight from in-game quotes.

The fact is, Link obtained the Triforce, returned to Hyrule (now the master of the Triforce), then he went off on a quest outside of Hyrule. Where do you think it's going to end up? It's not speculation or fanfiction, it's merely logical filling in of gaps, something we do all the time (like with FSA-ALttP stuff). Link could have married Zelda, or he could merely have left the Triforce behind. Only his descendants or a King could have used it... maybe both. The fact is, we have to make a NATURAL ASSUMPTION that the Triforce remained in Hyrule after ALttP Link, as there's no reason to believe otherwise. Hence AoL's backstory. Makes a shitload more sense than the way you want it. Hell, your awful explanation for Ganon and the SR seal is bad enough without tossing another death - as the NOT YET EXISTING PIG GANON - in LoZ in there. You're so damn self-destructive.

1) Who says the Triforce has to end up anywhere at all? I personally never see his hands, and while it's a valid assumption that Link left the Triforce in Hyrule with the Royal Family, it's an equally valid assumption that the King in TWW left the Triforce for his descendants, except without the middleman (Link).

2) In FSA, Ganon is sealed, and in ALttP Ganon is sealed. Other indicators not relating to Ganon point to FSA preceding ALttP.

3) There is no evidence that Link married Zelda. As I don't know what happens in AST, I make no claims as to whether the Triforce was left behind.

4) A King inheriting the Triforce after Link is not the logical next step after Link obtaining the Triforce. I'd actually rather accept Link being the scroll-writer of the Sleeping Zelda story himself.

5) LoZ Ganon's title as known by the people is identical to his title in OoT and TWW "dai maou." For the same reasons that it's unlikely a game comes between OoT and TWW I think it's quite unlikely that a game where his known title is "yami no maou" would happen in between.

I'm glad we agree that putting ALttP after TP is now inevitable, as the only contradiction is a necessity.

Not true; in the Adult timeline the Triforce becomes whole and in the Child timeline there's no indication that this is intended to happen yet.

You think the Sleeping Zelda story which occurs in Hyrule and has various other characters involved happens in two minutes in TWW's ending before the King dies.

You clearly don't have a clue what my theory is.

This suggests that the argument is that TP either belongs on the same timeline as ALttP, or on the same timeline as Adult OoT, which is blatantly false.

No, as what I'm saying is that if references made placements, TP would be on the same timeline as Adult OoT, as there are just as many references to it as to ALttP, possibly more.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 08 December 2008 - 11:28 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

What is fanfiction is the statement "Link left the Triforce behind for the royal family" (at least as far as I know, as I said I haven't played AST all the way through). As far as I can tell, this is not a self-evident fact and requires the assumption that ALttP is before LoZ to even be remotely necessary.

Like any of the crazy ideas you ever make are self-evident. Link left the Triforce behind in the fucking Castle of Hyrule, and he doesn't have plans of returning, atleast in any permanent manner. When Link inevitably dies, not yet returned to Hyrule as he'll probably be exploring, what happens to the Triforce? It frees up, and who's the most likely to claim it when it's in the Castle? And since we know it gets into the hands of royalty eventually...

1) Who says the Triforce has to end up anywhere at all? I personally never see his hands, and while it's a valid assumption that Link left the Triforce in Hyrule with the Royal Family, it's an equally valid assumption that the King in TWW left the Triforce for his descendants, except without the middleman (Link).

What descendents? The whole kingdom is dead and the only person who can be called his descendant (Tetra) renounced the title.

2) In FSA, Ganon is sealed, and in ALttP Ganon is sealed. Other indicators not relating to Ganon point to FSA preceding ALttP.

Sealed in a sword after trying to eat the universe with the power of the Trident != Sealed in the Sacred Realm after corrupting it with the Triforce and starting a full-scale war against Hyrule that involved the death of Hyrule Knights while Sages sealed off the portals between worlds.

3) There is no evidence that Link married Zelda. As I don't know what happens in AST, I make no claims as to whether the Triforce was left behind.

You're right, there is no evidence, but considering how these stories go, and given that romantic subtext has been established since AoL, it's not really much of a stretch, or a bad assumption, and isn't worth arguing over.

4) A King inheriting the Triforce after Link is not the logical next step after Link obtaining the Triforce. I'd actually rather accept Link being the scroll-writer of the Sleeping Zelda story himself.

Yea, right. You've convulted the Sleeping Zelda story so terribly.

5) LoZ Ganon's title as known by the people is identical to his title in OoT and TWW "dai maou." For the same reasons that it's unlikely a game comes between OoT and TWW I think it's quite unlikely that a game where his known title is "yami no maou" would happen in between.

The titles are pretty much synonymous. Are you really trying to make a case on timeline placement regarding whether he's basically called "Evil Demonlord" or "Dark Demonlord"? You're desperate.

[Lexxi Aileron]

MPS, I refuse to base LoZ's relationship to the modern timeline in terms established in 1991, or even 1998, when terms I deem better have appeared in 2003. The same goes for AoL and ALttP. While I certainly see the validity in the ideas that ownership of the Triforce passed to the Royal Family after ALttP and then was divided up as seen in AoL/LoZ, that the IW was supposed to tell us directly how Ganon came to be possess the Triforce and be trapped in the Sacred Realm in ALttP, and so on, I personally find that these links have been given different spins in future games (the naming tradition and ownership of the Triforce by the Royal Family in TWW and the Imprisoning War in OoT, respectively), and thus these games represent a more relevant picture of these events than the classic interpretation. If TP is supposed to be a prequel to the classic games (and I accept that that's certainly a possibility), I frankly need more direct proof than a sword in the woods.

Also, MPS, Link is in the process of returning to Hyrule in LA, and I see no indication of any further journeys scheduled after he gets back. Anyone can make any claim about what might happen after he returns and all such claims have about an equal footing. Whether or not the post-ALttP actually links to LoZ/AoL is certainly up for debate. So far all I see are fan-made guesses, which I also make for my side. And again, when I see TWW ending with a king in ownership of the Triforce, I think that sets up much better for a game where a previous member of the royal family is referenced as owning the Triforce. I don't really see the ancient Hyrule being buried under the waves as being an unconquerable obstacle as AoL states that Hyrule ceased to be one unified territory some time before the game began anyway and the kingdom becoming broken because of the flood is just as valid an opinion as any other.

Sealed in a sword after trying to eat the universe with the power of the Trident != Sealed in the Sacred Realm after corrupting it with the Triforce and starting a full-scale war against Hyrule that involved the death of Hyrule Knights while Sages sealed off the portals between worlds.

We disagree on the relevance of the Palace of the Four Swords, so there's no real point in debating this.

The titles are pretty much synonymous. Are you really trying to make a case on timeline placement regarding whether he's basically called "Evil Demonlord" or "Dark Demonlord"? You're desperate.

I'll put it this way:

He's always called "Great Demon King" in OoT and TWW. The title he's known by in LoZ is "Great Demon King." In OoX the Ganon Twinrova is trying to revive is known as the "Great Demon King," and as he is struck down he declares himself to be the "King of Darkness." In FSA it is the "King of Darkness" whose device rests in the pyramid, and in ALttP it is the "King of Darkness" who is trapped in the Sacred Realm and trying to break the seal.

The synonymous nature of the titles is rather inconsequential. All of the titles indicate he is a demonic overlord, that's both true and obvious. However, it's more or less the same as OoT Link being referred to as the "Hero of Time" in TWW while he's just called the "ancient hero" in TP--the titles that survive in the legends tell us a lot about the events they refer to. Since Ganon gained the title "Great Demon King" in OoT, it makes sense that the use of this title in other games comes from OoT. Since Ganon declared himself "King of Darkness" in OoX/gained the title "King of Darkness" in FSA, it makes sense that the use of the title in other games comes from OoX/FSA.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 08 December 2008 - 04:04 PM.

[Raien]

If TP is supposed to be a prequel to the classic games (and I accept that that's certainly a possibility), I frankly need more direct proof than a sword in the woods.

Why does TP have to connect to ALttP for the two games to take place in the same timeline? The main argument that TP takes place before ALttP is the fact that Hyrule is destroyed in TWW, making a resurrection of Hyrule practically impossible.

I don't really see the ancient Hyrule being buried under the waves as being an unconquerable obstacle as AoL states that Hyrule ceased to be one unified territory some time before the game began anyway and the kingdom becoming broken because of the flood is just as valid an opinion as any other.

Way to ignore the religious significance of the old Hyrule.

Edited by Raian, 08 December 2008 - 04:15 PM.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Why does TP have to connect to ALttP for the two games to take place in the same timeline? The main argument that TP takes place before ALttP is the fact that Hyrule is destroyed in TWW, making a resurrection of Hyrule practically impossible.

1) TP does not, in my opinion, even allot for the possibility that ALttP's main backstory event (the IW) can occur on the Child timeline. That's what I mean by "it doesn't connect." Of course, I have different criteria than yours as to what would have to happen for the IW to occur, just as you have different criteria as to whether a new Hyrule is possible after TWW.
2) I still don't see how the denizens of the Great Sea founding a country after the legacy of Hyrule is in any way impossible, especially once the Great Deku Tree starts connecting the islands to form large continents. Clearly you disagree, but that doesn't make the idea invalid, just unlikely according to your criteria.

Way to ignore the religious significance of the old Hyrule.

Of the Old Hyrule, to be sure. No such religious significance is attached to Hyrule in LoZ/AoL/ALttP/TMC/FSA. The only exception is ALttP, but it only gives this significance to Hyrule at the time of the IW.

[Impossible]

LOL. Not even worth continuing in the face of such flimsy crap. Oh, Ganon's title is different?! Forget the back of the box and the entire intent of the game!

Miyamoto was the first and only person at Nintendo EAD who stated the LoZ-ALttP order. Dan Owsen of Nintendo of America, who was famous for mistranslating the original ALttP script, simply quoted Miyamoto. Other developers referred to ALttP as a "sequel", but in the context of gameplay. AoL moved away from LoZ's gameplay and ALttP restored that gameplay, so ALttP was viewed as the "true sequel" to LoZ.

And don't forget - mistranslated and incorrect information, including Miyamoto's quote, were removed from the US Zelda site at Nintendo's request. This is an implicit suggestion that the Miyamoto timeline is actually WRONG. Oh, and don't forget the fact that ALttP was made to show the origins of things in LoZ, and that IW-ALttP-LoZ was a necessity for those elements to work - all the way up to 2002. And all the developer statements linking OoT, at the time when it was the IW, directly to ALttP. Am I missing anything?