131 replies to this topic

[Steel Samurai]

As mentioned above, I seriously doubt he's dead. They never check his pulse or anything similar, or even specifically mention it. I have no idea as to how they're going to work it in the next movie, but I don't think he's dead.

One thing I'd like to mention is that I'm ever so glad they did not ever try to put a pop-psychology label on Joker's insanity, nor went down the split personality route with Harvey. The movie is about choices, never allowing the bad guys to blame their crimes on any psychological disease.

I thought I'd share this:

Batman has always been my favorite, with Spiderman and Superman and Wolverine close seconds. I thought of it this way. You know that Shakespeare quote, "Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them."? Superman was born to greatness, even if Krypton had hadn't been destroyed he would have been a great man on Krypton. Spiderman had greatness thrust upon him, he would've been an ordinary man with an ordinary life if he hadn't been bitten by the Spider. Batman though . . . Batman chose to be great. Superman and Spiderman had no choice about bearing great power, and, thus, great responsibility, and it's almost like they were compensated for that by having some measure of happiness, Superman with Lois and Spiderman with Mary Jane. (on and off) Batman has no superpowers, no great responsibility to the people of Gotham. Every night he goes out he chooses his path, chooses to sacrifice his own happiness for the good of the people. He could, at any time, choose to abandon being Batman and retire to live in luxury as Bruce Wayne, with none the wiser. But he doesn't.

[CID Farwin]

I'm not quite sold on Harvey/Two Face living. I mean, both times I watched the movie my eyes were zeroed in on Harvey's chest which didn't move! They also make a point to move his head and such.

As for the vague dialog surrounding it, they made a point to say Gordon was dead, which he wasn't, so that really hurts the chances of Harvey's survival.

To TAB: Batman killed Harvey (assuming he's dead,) he also 'killed' the guys Two-face did. It makes it much more believable that he killed those people if he killed Harvey.

[TheAvengerLever]

I'm just saying, Bruce Wayne doesn't want to kill people. That's not what Batman is about. And yet, he killed Harvey.

Yeah, I watched his chest too. No movement. He's dead, people.

[DarkJuno]

Finally got around to seeing it today -shakes fist at work schedule- and man, it's awesome. The movie by itself, as everyone here seems to be stating, is just a damn good movie period. No, it's neither the darkest movie ever nor the edgiest, but as far as comic book movies, definitely. Even as just another movie, it's definitely a great film.

As for Ledger, comparing him to Nicholson is like comparing him to Cesear Romero - you really can't and shouldn't. They all played him different ways and all excelled at that version which was appropriate, though honestly I still prefer Mark Hamill's Animated version, if only because he was both a goofy laughing clown gimmick and a deranged murderous twisted psycho, but really, none of them are bad at all.

But that's nitpicking, he was great all the same, as wasBale, though once again I take issue with his Batman voice. I don't know, sometimes it's perfect, but most of the time he sounds like he has emphysema. Rest of the cast is great too, not a weak on amongst them.

Sidenote: Katie Holmes is an idiot for turning down the chance to come back - though it makes it all the more obvious what happens to Rachel.

Far as....

Batman taking the blame for the murders, well, all of them are criminals or at least crooked/bought cops. While the latter won't win him any points, the former really won't have the public at large that upset at him, besides the ones who already don't like him. Besides, it sets the 3rd movie up fine, and honestly, given how long he went without killing anyone, at least some people will sense something's off.

But yeah, great movie - definitely deserves all the praise it's getting.

[Oberon Storm]

If Harvey Dent is not dead then what exactly did Batman and Gordon do with him?

Sidenote: Katie Holmes is an idiot for turning down the chance to come back - though it makes it all the more obvious what happens to Rachel.

That Dawson's Creek has been gives me a headache. I'm glad she turned it down. Despite what others think I also think Maggie Gyllenhaal is more attractive.

[DarkJuno]

Oh, I think Maggie Gyllenhal did a much better job then Katie Holmes did in the first one, just pointing out she was dumb for not coming back.

[D~N]

...nor went down the split personality route with Harvey

Just thought I'd say I disagree:

A split personality is kinda what makes Two-Face, I think, so I was ever-so-slightly dissapointed. He had some moments of split personality like that in TDK I think (at least, I think some moments hinted at that), but in the end I was happy with this result too. I mean, one giant flip-flop turned out to be more convincing and realistic than a split personality, and meshed with the whole "realistic Batman" thing Nolan has going for TDK.

And a big fat YES to The Riddler in Batman 3. Probably in my top three, along with The Joker and The Penguin, of my favorite batman villians.

Also, thanks to CID and Steel, I understand the ending a bit more. Consequently, I liked the movie more than I thought I could. Now I wanna see it again and put it all together!

Edited by D~N, 24 July 2008 - 10:55 PM.

[Chikara Nadir]

Do I need to watch Begins in order to understand the Dark Knight?

To you or anyone else who's curious: all you need to know is that Bruce Wayne sucks with relationships and pretends to be a playboy to hide his true personality...and that Alfred the butler (Michael Caine) is like a surrogate father to him. Oh, and that Morgan Freeman is God. Or was that in Bruce Almighty..?

But nah, Batman Begins was like a superhero equivalent of Casino Royale -- taking an untamed but determined man and training him to become the power that would be famous as someday. It was the introduction of him trying to become Batman, whereas Dark Knight goes right into the swing of things -- and stands alone quite magnificently.

“If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I’ll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work.”

XD Good man, Bale. I'd never be opposed to Batgirl popping up...if the series is going on when she's old enough, at least. But for now I think Alfred's the closest to a sidekick that he needs.

I agree, Two Face is dead. He honestly has to be -- if Harvey Dent showed his face in ANY form in the future, Batman's sacrifice would be completely in vain. Being the "murderer" of Dent and Two Face's victims is the sole reason for Batman to go from a 'civil nuisance' in the eyes of the Gotham PD to an outright criminal. And anyone who knows Batman understands that he's often just as hated by the police as the true villains he fights.

Besides, with so many more villains to go through, they don't really need to bring Two Face back. At least not in person. Again, the memory of him will be haunting enough for our Dark Knight, Gotham's newest Criminal #1.

[Masamune]

One character I want to see that isn't a supervillain is Harvey Bullock. Now that Batman is on the run, he'd be the perfect character to be leading a chase around the city for Batman while Gordon gives only a token effort to catch him.

[Egann]

Just saw it. AWESOME movie, but not the be-all-end-all of cinema. (*Wants Heath Ledger to get posthumous Oscar*)

“If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I’ll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work.”

The "Batman as a lone wolf" is a new thing, but, frankly, I think it better encapsulates the essence of Batman for him to be a loner....unless of course we're talking about Justice League ...(and he STILL is the lone wolf there, too because he doesn't have any super-powers....)

Also, DO NOT click on this link if you haven't seen the movie and want to impeach Bush. It may ruin the experience.

[Reflectionist]

Also, DO NOT click on this link if you haven't seen the movie and want to impeach Bush. It may ruin the experience.

I like the picture on that page.... There's the Joker, Batman, and Two Face. brilliant.

[Chikara Nadir]

I like the picture on that page.... There's the Joker, Batman, and Two Face. brilliant.

I had to double look at the page after you said that to make sure it wasn't the official Joker/Batman/Two Face poster you were referring to.

...and then I wanted to fall over laughing when I got it. XD

[Oberon Storm]

Also, DO NOT click on this link if you haven't seen the movie and want to impeach Bush. It may ruin the experience.

I like the picture on that page.... There's the Joker, Batman, and Two Face. brilliant.

No. You're brilliant. And it's authors such as that moron that make me want to kill myself.

[Chikara Nadir]

What, are you trying to say that Batman isn't secretly trying to kill Obama, or that George W. isn't a skirtchasing socialite by day and a tights-wearing hero in need of a few cough drops by night? But it'd make reality (and politics, for that matter) so much more exciting...

Just a head's up- let's not try to get too political or some posts will have to be moved to Contro if the current discussion gets too...batty.

[Chukchi Husky]

I managed to watched the film today. I liked the film. EVeryone that I went with said it was the second best Batman film they ever seen (the first being the Adam West one).

[Reflectionist]

I managed to watched the film today. I liked the film. EVeryone that I went with said it was the second best Batman film they ever seen (the first being the Adam West one).

...You're... You're joking, right?


I'm on to your little game.

Edited by Reflectionist, 29 July 2008 - 06:53 PM.

[Steel Samurai]

^ Proof that Husky's been leading us on this whole time.


By the way, has anyone else watched Batman: Gotham Knight yet?

[Chukchi Husky]

...You're... You're joking, right?

I'm not joking. I haven't seen the Adam West film though so I wouldn't know what it's like, but everyone knows better than I do at everything.

[Oberon Storm]

Your friends appearently don't know anything at all.

[TheAvengerLever]

*raises hand* I enjoyed the 1966 (?) film. Granted, it's not Chris Nolan. Or even Tim Burton. But for what it was when it was, it's quite entertaining.

[Chukchi Husky]

They said it was "sheer brilliance".

[CID Farwin]

By the way, has anyone else watched Batman: Gotham Knight yet?

*raises hand*
Ooh, ooh, I did! I did!

Like the day before seeing The Dark Knight.

[Showsni]

I think the sixties batman movie is the only one I've seen...
Oh no, wait, I saw (some of) the one with Poison Ivy.

[Reflectionist]

Yeah... sheer brilliance.

Gordon: Could be any one of them, but which one? W— which ones?
O'Hara: [gasps]
Batman: Pretty fishy what happened to me on that ladder.
Gordon: You mean, where there's a fish, there could be a Penguin.
Robin: But wait! It happened at sea! See? "C" for Catwoman!
Batman: Yet... an exploding shark was pulling my leg!
Gordon: The Joker!
O'Hara: [It] all adds up to a sinister riddle. Riddle-er. Riddler?
Gordon: Oh! A thought strikes me! So dreadful I scarcely dare give it utterance.
Batman: The four of them. Their forces combined...
Robin: Holy nightmare!

Of course! Who could deny the genius of this logic? *facepalm*

The 1966 movie was good for what it was. I'm sure when I was 6 or 7 I got the biggest kick out of it and thought it the greatest movie ever. But it's nowhere near genius, or brilliance. It's very dated. But, that's the Silver Age, for you.

---

As far as Gotham Knight, I absolutely loved it. I've seen it on Youtube. Very, very thrilled that they brought back Kevin Conroy to do the voice for Batman. Very smart move. The man is just brilliant in that role. Let's see, my favorite short was "Working Through Pain," though I've got to say the last bits of dialogue in "Field Test," are absolutely what makes Batman who he is for me.

"I'm willing to put my life on the line, but it has to be mine. No one else's."

I love that line - at least, I think that was it. Though I still find "Working Through Pain," to be the closest representation of the sine qua non of Batman. It's really great stuff.

And I don't even like anime that much.

EDIT - Showsni! You've only seen the '66 movie and Batman and Robin? Wow, dude. I don't even know what to say to that, seriously. Go watch Batman Returns or something... get that campy image of Batman out of your head. Lol.

Edited by Reflectionist, 30 July 2008 - 03:37 PM.

[TheAvengerLever]

Hugo Strange or Black Mask. I think Black Mask is set up perfectly for Batman 3


Sorry, revising my villains list.

[Tseb]

I think that the riddler is gonna come in, but in a completely new make-you-drool-at-the-brilliance-of-it kinda way. Much like what happened with Ledger's joker. I also wonder how Gotham is gonna change for the third one. Since the first one ended with the line about escalation, leading to Gotham feeling even more dark and unsafe in the second one. With The Joker showing all the terrorist films to the whole populace I think the third one is gonna focus on the civilians a little bit more. Maybe have the families of people killed by The Joker start an anti-batman mob? Part of me also wonders if they might try to have Batman vs. Gotham as the theme for the next one. He would have to face himself. Fight with himself about just returning to being Bruce Wayne. Maybe not have a bad guy (yeah sounds crazy but if anyone can do it Nolan can). Or maybe have an anti-villain (Not familiar with the comics so I don't know who it could be) but someone that would appear to be a good guy (like Dent) but really be evil. If that happened Batman would really have to fight with himself. because taking down someone like that would make Gotham hate him even more.

My two cents.

[JRPomazon]

Who were the 5 people Harvey Killed? I know Falcone, his driver, the crooked cop at the bar, but who else?

[Reflectionist]

Who were the 5 people Harvey Killed? I know Falcone, his driver, the crooked cop at the bar, but who else?

I'm not sure, but I think they were as follows:

Maroni's Driver (Gunshot), Sal Maroni (car wreck), Wuertz and Ramirez, aaaaaand I don't know

[Steel Samurai]

Ramirez just got knocked out, if you remember. She won her toss.

[Reflectionist]

Ramirez just got knocked out, if you remember. She won her toss.

Oh, yeah, that's right. He did clock her pretty hard, though. You know, Maroni won his toss too, and he ended up dead. So I thought.