70 replies to this topic

[JRPomazon]

I would post this in contro, but I doubt they would take me seriously if I posted it there.

Here is the question: would it be considered murder to kill a zombie?

[Showsni]

What kind of zombie? An entirely brainless corpse animated somehow so that it can move? Or a Discworld-esque sentient zombie?

[Selena]

Well, they're already dead. So... I don't think it counts. Besides, they'll probably be trying to eat your brains. So it's self-defense.

[JRPomazon]

What kind of zombie? An entirely brainless corpse animated somehow so that it can move? Or a Discworld-esque sentient zombie?

Animated Corpse-type.

[Nameless_Joe]

You sound like you're comptemplating this seriously... Are you having zombie troubles in your neighborhood!? Need an exterminator!?

Well, they're already dead. So... I don't think it counts. Besides, they'll probably be trying to eat your brains. So it's self-defense.

I concur.

Edited by Nameless_Joe, 15 January 2008 - 05:16 PM.

[Showsni]

Murder: "The deliberate and unlawful killing of a human being, esp. in a premeditated manner."

So, two points - is a zombie a human being? And is it lawful to kill zombies?

An animated corpse probably doesn't really count as a human any more, even if it's a human corpse...

[Fyxe]

Zombies lead to a bit of a simple debate... They're dead, and you can't cure them, and they show no signs of their former personality, so I doubt there's anything ethically wrong with killing a zombie, especially if it's trying to kill you.

Now, vampires, vampires are a bit more of an interesting subject, since while being 'undead' (sort of...) they retain all their memories and many personality traits, and in some cases can even be cured or turn 'good'. Yet a vampire is generally way more dangerous than a single zombie.

[Delphi]

And there's the Space Zombies from Halo!

Does everyone agree with me that disregarding the ethics thing for a minute, the shotgun is the universal zombie killer?

And can a zombie be put on trial for his killings? I mean, I think it'd be a rather horrid affair. They'd probably eat their defense lawyer or something!

[Chikara Nadir]

Murder: "The deliberate and unlawful killing of a human being, esp. in a premeditated manner."

But if you murder an animal (house pet, at least), you can get in serious legal trouble. If it's a wild animal, you at least need a license. So...you can only kill it during Zombie Season?

However, as someone else originally killed it (well, another zombie did at least), might you just be a conspirator in the murder by finishing the job?

[Xkeeper]

Interesting (yet pointless) debate. I'd assume it would probably fall under non-murder:

- They're already quite dead
- They're a danger to society/humanity
- Not killing them would have an adverse effect on everything

Yeah.

Other types of demon, as Fyxe pointed out, would probably be more interesting.

[Toan]

So...you can only kill it during Zombie Season?

It's totally legal/ethical in my opinion.

[Chikara Nadir]

- They're a danger to society/humanity

But if you're justifying murdering them because they're a 'threat', what about other dangers to our species? How many innocent sharks, wolves, bears, etc who were living in harmony with their own habitat, minding their own business, have been murdered because humans figure the world is better off without them? How many movies and stories (e.g. Jaws or Little Red Riding Hood) have been released that have spurned the death of dozens, hundreds, even thousands of one species over time?

I submit that even one unjust Zombie movie or one single death by zombie would (much like in the death of Steve Irwin by stingray) cause the mass murder of a harmless and already fragile (if not endangered) species. Poor zombies. u.u

[SnowsilverKat]

I don't know about you, but if it's a life or death situation and you're defending yourself, I would definately kill a zombie if it were attacking me.

Similarly, I like dogs, but if one attacked me and I were in serious danger as a result, I would have no reservations of defending myself, even if the results were fatal to the dog.

There were way too many commas in that last sentence. It's probably run-on.

[Xkeeper]

- They're a danger to society/humanity

But if you're justifying murdering them because they're a 'threat', what about other dangers to our species? How many innocent sharks, wolves, bears, etc who were living in harmony with their own habitat, minding their own business, have been murdered because humans figure the world is better off without them? How many movies and stories (e.g. Jaws or Little Red Riding Hood) have been released that have spurned the death of dozens, hundreds, even thousands of one species over time?

I submit that even one unjust Zombie movie or one single death by zombie would (much like in the death of Steve Irwin by stingray) cause the mass murder of a harmless and already fragile (if not endangered) species. Poor zombies. u.u

I think you're confusing "potentially dangerous" animals (various animals, who unless disturbed won't attack you) and "always dangerous" zombies (who specifically hunt and attack humans).

Not to mention a rogue animal attack usually leaves 1 or 2 dead; a zombie attack is known to usually wipe out an entire city.

[CID Farwin]

- They're a danger to society/humanity

But if you're justifying murdering them because they're a 'threat', what about other dangers to our species? How many innocent sharks, wolves, bears, etc who were living in harmony with their own habitat, minding their own business, have been murdered because humans figure the world is better off without them? How many movies and stories (e.g. Jaws or Little Red Riding Hood) have been released that have spurned the death of dozens, hundreds, even thousands of one species over time?

I submit that even one unjust Zombie movie or one single death by zombie would (much like in the death of Steve Irwin by stingray) cause the mass murder of a harmless and already fragile (if not endangered) species. Poor zombies. u.u

I think you're confusing "potentially dangerous" animals (various animals, who unless disturbed won't attack you) and "always dangerous" zombies (who specifically hunt and attack humans).

Not to mention a rogue animal attack usually leaves 1 or 2 dead; a zombie attack is known to usually wipe out an entire city.

Beat me to it; Zombies murder people "living in harmony with their own habitat, minding their own business." It's a completely separate thing.

Although I'll have to agree that the Vampire/Werewolf/other mystical creature debate would be more fun.

Does everyone agree with me that disregarding the ethics thing for a minute, the shotgun is the universal zombie killer?

It is, but the flamethrower is by far the funnest weapon.

[Travuko]

Ok, first off, let me point out that it is physically impossible for zombies to exist. After doing a little research I find that the origination of the zombie come from the Afro-Caribbean spiritual belief system of Vodou. Also I learn that the original zombie is very different form the popularized modern version of today's media. So, that should be further proof that the zombie we're talking about killing is simply a figment of human imagination. And you can't kill that.

However, IF zombies exists and I wanted to join in this pointless debate, let me through in my two cents. It seems to me that currently we're trying to decide if zombies count as human to comply with current federal and state laws about murder. Now that can be argued back and forth, but maybe it would be worthwhile noting that there are also laws about the tampering of human remains. And being dead and all, wouldn't the act the "killing" of a zombie classify that under those laws and therefore be prosecutable? Something to think about.

But enough of that nonsense, lets talk about vampires. There are well documents conditions were people are sensitive to light, and a thirst for blood, however disgusting, isn't implausible. And super human strength, well let's just agree that there are those who would confuse a person with certain medical conditions as a vampire. Especially if that person has "evil" tendencies. Now, if someone where to try to kill that person, I would suppose that someone would definitely be a suspect in a murder investigation because the vampire person was very much still alive. Even if that person paraded around as a vampire killing others to suck their blood. The do still prosecute people who murder the murderers, you know.

[Steel Samurai]

Ok, first off, let me point out that it is physically impossible for zombies to exist. After doing a little research I find that the origination of the zombie come from the Afro-Caribbean spiritual belief system of Vodou. Also I learn that the original zombie is very different form the popularized modern version of today's media. So, that should be further proof that the zombie we're talking about killing is simply a figment of human imagination. And you can't kill that.

No, really? Damn. And here I was, afraid to go to bed at night cause the zombies would get me.

Any creature which attacks me (or any other human, for that matter) with intent to kill can be slain without moral regret, unless one could have disabled the creature without risking your life. I think most would agree with me that that is perhaps the most basic human right, one which is impossible to take away. So, if a zombie, werewolf, vampire, lichen, wildebat, or any other kind've strange creature attacked me, I would kill it.

[CID Farwin]

I am reminded of a great point: If we outlaw guns, WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN THE ZOMBIES COME!?!?!?

And of course 'zombie' (The way I use it) refers to eat your brain, Dawn of the Dead/Resident Evil/Zombie Movie-style zombies.

And 'vampire' (Also the way I use it) means Dracula-style predatory bloodsuckers.

[Selena]

RULES OF SUPERNATURAL ENGAGEMENT

Zombies
All zombies are to be terminated via shotgun as soon as humanly possible. One zombie can cause a nationwide outbreak. Most of the time, however, outbreaks are isolated cases in small country cities, mansions, Mexico, or Nazi German castles. If shotgun ammunition is too scarce to eliminate the threat in such areas, then you are advised to nuke them into oblivion. Potential side effect: Radioactive zombies; Radioactive Nazi zombies.

Werewolves
Werewolves can be fully integrated into society. Werewolves must be accompanied by a human guardian during full moons. All werewolves must be registered and kept on a lease while outdoors during these time periods. If werewolf requires flesh for nutrition, owner must buy sides of beef or pork loins at the store. Dogfood (preferably canned) also acceptable. Failure to care for your werewolf will result in a fine of $1000. Confiscation of animal may also occur.

Poltergeists
Friendly prankster poltergeist should be preserved for use on door-to-door salesmen. For malicious entities, please call your local Ghostbusters team.

Vampires
Well mannered, optimistic vampires who feed on legal blood purchased from a medical clinic may remain active members of the nighttime society. Murderous and/or needlessly angst ridden emo vampires are to be staked through the heart as soon as possible. For the sake of sane people and fanfiction readers.

[CID Farwin]

Murderous and/or needlessly angst ridden emos vampire are to be staked through the heart as soon as possible. For the sake of sane people and fanfiction readers.

Fixed.

Edited by CID Farwin, 17 January 2008 - 12:37 AM.

[JRPomazon]

Murderous and/or needlessly angst ridden emos vampire are to be staked through the heart as soon as possible. For the sake of sane people and fanfiction readers.

Fixed.

Nice. That gave me some nice LULZ.

[Showsni]

Since zombies are generally raised as servants by a voodoo practioner, and not in very large numbers, they're unlikely to pose much of a threat; unless you're viewing the broader spectrum of all animated corpses counting as zombies, in which case vampires and other revenants would be a subset of zombies. And generally you just dig up the corpse and perform whatever rites over it for a vampire or revenant, so it's not even really alive. If you think someone died in a manner that might make them come back as a revenant, perhaps you should just take precautions of burying them upside down or whatever in the first place rather than waiting for them to rise.
Traditionally, vampires are bloated and rosy/ruddy skinned...

[Fyxe]

LULZ.

*blows Pomazon's head off with a shotgun*

For the sake of society.

[Xkeeper]

RULES OF SUPERNATURAL ENGAGEMENT

Zombies
All zombies are to be terminated via shotgun as soon as humanly possible. One zombie can cause a nationwide outbreak. Most of the time, however, outbreaks are isolated cases in small country cities, mansions, Mexico, or Nazi German castles. If shotgun ammunition is too scarce to eliminate the threat in such areas, then you are advised to nuke them into oblivion. Potential side effect: Radioactive zombies; Radioactive Nazi zombies.

Hey, now, those Nazi zombies were the creation of Dr. Guehziebgilxufblwhatever. Not really an "outbreak" as much as "genetic mutilating".


At least, that's what the manual says.

[JRPomazon]

LULZ.

*blows Pomazon's head off with a shotgun*

For the sake of society.

That was a bit harsh, don't you think?

[Selena]

No.



The same would have occurred if you said 'kawaii' at any point before or after 'LULZ.'


Or if you used this face: :3

[CID Farwin]

Let it be known that I did not "do it for the LULZ"

[JRPomazon]

Your responses to a corruption of "lol" amuses me greatly. Thank you. But to the matter at hand:

It seems we have come to the solid agreement that reanimated corpses that merely follow basic carnivorous instincts are OK to kill and/or slaughter. However, if they are people under the influence of magic or mind control they are by no means to be killed. Does all this sound right?

[Chikara Nadir]

II'd also like to say my point again- that if the zombies are in the city killing/reanimating masses of people, they're bad. But if someone's stupid enough to get trapped in their territory, be it a buried ruin, jungle temple, or abandoned ship, the fleshbag's asking for it.

[Toxin]

what about the normal people who just watch to much TV in one day and become mindless TV zombies?