49 replies to this topic

[Alakhriveion]

No- it's a form of communication, and NONE of them should be restricted. NONE.

[Alistia]

Yes, they should, but that's for another topic.

[Alakhriveion]

It is, and it's the topic we've come to so, go. Sheilds up, phasers charged and locked.

[GraniteJJ]

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 02:28 AM
Well actually most offenders (especially the pedophiles) are repeat offenders so it is very likely that they will do it again.

I don't know about any other people at the forum but I do have a personal reason to want these sex registries. You really need to keep these people away from schools. You know the reason they started this was because a little girl was kidnapped and killed by her neighbor who was a convicted child molester. The whole time they were looking for her they didn't have a clue it was him because there was no sex registry. So it does save lives and I feel that is a little more important than the rights of someone who has already forfeited them by violating another person in such a vile way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know how many pedophiles on the grand scale are repeat offenders. I'd need to see a stat before I buy that one.

A sex offender registry doesn't keep people away from schools. The registry doesn't just appear in mid air and block the pedophiles from entering the school.

The little girl being kidnapped was one instance of many. What about Holly Jones in Toronto? The person kidnapped her, possibly sexually abused her, and then killed her, leaving her body in several duffel bags along Lake Ontario. The person who killed her was a first time offender. What registry would have saved her? None. If there was a registry, the cops would have investigating the names on this registry, and this guy could have gotten away with it to a new extreme. Sure, it did take them a while to catch him, but if they were following bogus leads off of some useless registry, then he might still be on the loose.

It wasn't because there was no sex registry that that girl was kidnapped. Seriously, the registry doesn't PREVENT crimes, it simply allows for easy and swift vengeance.

Some guy comes and kidnaps a kid. The registry isn't going to tell you exactly who did it, nor is it going to say where he is. By the time police have followed all of the leads which the registry provides, the kid will probably already be dead. And therefore, the registry would only help the family get quicker and more accurate vengeance. Of course, the solace vengeance provides is short-lived.

[Alistia]

Excellent points, Granite.

[Alakhriveion]

Agreed.

[Alistia]

[quote]Originally posted by Alistia+Sep 16 2004, 04:00 PM-->

Well, this is going to be taken the wrong way but... you'd have someone imprisoned indefinitely for touching a child, or would you be willing to settle on it depends on the degree of the assault?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/b][/quote]
Yes, but as I said, I do have a personal intrest in it and that's why I would go harsh. In general I like the whole degree thing, but I have no mercy for child molesters.

#38 Alistia

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 08:57 PM

So why the registry?


Registry tells people something personal about you, even if you move to a different community or whatever.


If there's going to be a sex-offender registry, then likewise there should be a sex-offendee registry. That way, we know who's more likely to have some psychological issues, so we can choose to avoid them or judge them if we wish. After all, it's not fair to get to know someone and love them, then find out they spaz on you after sex because of a flashback or something, is it?

Maybe she goes nuts enough because of the previous experience and kills the guy. See? A registry for both offenders and victims would actually be most beneficial.



(Note: My use of female as the victim was just to save on words type as an example.)

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#39 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 09:17 PM

Well sex offender registires are most often used to keep them from getting jobs in daycares and such. I know in CA you aren't allowed to find out much, just the general area of where they live really, and you have to go to the police station to do it. This is how it should be, to keep people from juding them. But the important thing is the police have the info if they need it, and that the offenders aren't allowed to work around kids.


Oh I found a few stats, I will keep looking for more though....

  The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence.
Source: National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

About 95% of victims know their perpetrators.
Source: CCPCA, 1992.

  It is estimated that approximately 71% of child sex offenders are under 35 and knew the victim at least casually. About 80% of these individuals fall within normal intelligence ranges; 59% gain sexual access to their victims through, seduction or enticement.
Source: Burgess & Groth, 1984.

Of the rapes and sexual assaults reported by victims in the BJS survey, 60 percent took place in the victim's home or at the home of a friend, relative or neighbor.

Offenders who served time for sexual assault were 7.5 times as likely as those convicted of other crimes to be rearrested for a new sexual assault. Approximately 8 percent of 2,214 rapists released from prisons in 11 states in 1983 were rearrested for a new rape within three years, compared to approximately 1 percent of released prisoners who served time for robbery or assault.

For offenders imprisoned for violent crimes against victims younger than 18 (1991):
About 30 percent reported attacks on more than one child;

They came from this site and this site There were a lot of other stats there if you want to see, I just pulled a few out. The stats show that not only is it likely that one will rape again, but that they will do it to someone they know.

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#40 GraniteJJ

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 09:28 PM

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 10:17 PM
Well sex offender registires are most often used to keep them from getting jobs in daycares and such. I know in CA you aren't allowed to find out much, just the general area of where they live really, and you have to go to the police station to do it. This is how it should be, to keep people from juding them. But the important thing is the police have the info if they need it, and that the offenders aren't allowed to work around kids.
Oh I found a few stats, I will keep looking for more though....
They came from this site and this site There were a lot of other stats there if you want to see, I just pulled a few out. The stats show that not only is it likely that one will rape again, but that they will do it to someone they know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Daycares and facilities of the like are supposed to do background checks on the people they hire.

For example, when I applied at a school board over the summer, they did a background check on me to see if I had a criminal record (which I don't). I also had to get a tuberculosis shot...but that's irrelevant to this.

The point is, these organizations are supposed to be checking criminal records already...should the registry really be implemented?

And I stand by the fact that a registry will not help.

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#41 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:07 PM

You know a lot don't do background checks though (but should). A registerd sex offender is going to show up as a big red flag as aposed to just saying felon. I don't know exactly what the governemnt is allowed to dispose for regular felons but with my experience with military background checks and such, I wouldn't think it would be much.

I feel it is important to keep check on where they live. Regular felons don't have to keep the government up to date on where they live but sexual offenders are supossed to. This is to help keep them away from schools and parks and such. Being a victim I am glad that the state is keeping tabs on them.

Anyway my main point is this. They are a felon, they are not entitled to the same rights as everyone else as they forfitted them when they committed this kind of act. So why protect the rights of a person who has no regard for another's?

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#42 Alistia

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:09 PM

Being a victim as well, I don't feel comfort one bit that the state knows where they are.

Originally posted by mysticdragon13
They are a felon, they are not entitled to the same rights as everyone else as they forfitted them when they committed this kind of act. So why protect the rights of a person who has no regard for another's?

Because despite how you may see them, they're still human.

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#43 GraniteJJ

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:21 PM

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 11:07 PM
You know a lot don't do background checks though (but should). A registerd sex offender is going to show up as a big red flag as aposed to just saying felon. I don't know exactly what the governemnt is allowed to dispose for regular felons but with my experience with military background checks and such, I wouldn't think it would be much.

I feel it is important to keep check on where they live. Regular felons don't have to keep the government up to date on where they live but sexual offenders are supossed to. This is to help keep them away from schools and parks and such. Being a victim I am glad that the state is keeping tabs on them.

Anyway my main point is this. They are a felon, they are not entitled to the same rights as everyone else as they forfitted them when they committed this kind of act. So why protect the rights of a person who has no regard for another's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its a sticky wicket. Yes, they did forfeit their rights by committing a crime, in theory, but how are we enforcing justice by slapping them back in the face...

Aren't we just admitting that the system fails when we have to keep tabs on these people as big threats after they have supposedly been rehabilitated? Maybe the problem isn't the people, but what we're doing to help them... <_<

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#44 Alistia

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:25 PM

Bingo, Granite.



Did you know, mysticdragon13, that I'm sure a lot of pedophiles came to being one by being a victim of pedophilia themselves. It's a psychological cycle, one I'm quite familiar with myself. Registry doesn't fix anything, only makes people feel better. No offense, but that's not good enough. I'd like to be helped so I don't grab some kid in the future. But you're really only worried about me working in a day-care center after the fact? o.oa

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#45 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:32 PM

[quote]Originally posted by GraniteJJ+Sep 16 2004, 07:21 PM-->

Its a sticky wicket. Yes, they did forfeit their rights by committing a crime, in theory, but how are we enforcing justice by slapping them back in the face...

Aren't we just admitting that the system fails when we have to keep tabs on these people as big threats after they have supposedly been rehabilitated? Maybe the problem isn't the people, but what we're doing to help them... <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/b][/quote]

#46 GraniteJJ

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:38 PM

Well then, shouldn't we be focusing less time and money on registries then, and much more on a solid rehabilitation.

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#47 Doopliss

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:46 PM

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 10:32 PM
I'm sorry but I do have a STRONG bias on this, and I feel it is a good thing. When they caught the guy that violated me he was already planning to do it again. So I am glad that he will be registerd. Wheather that will really keep him from doing it again, I don't know but at least I know they are at least trying. When they come up with some fool proff rehibilitation then we can do away with registries but until then I'm for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, that's really bad, I pity you .

I think that the government is unfair with criminals, the punishment for doing a crime is to ruin your life permanently. Yes, they get out of jail after they have served their time, but what happens next? They can't get job, everyone runs from them and they are often watched by the police. Yes, they did a crime, but not for that their lives have to be ruined. They're supposed to have got what they deserve for their actions after they are released.

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#48 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:46 PM

Yes I agree with granite.

I'd like to clarify a bit as I was spaced out the last few hours while posting (husband trouble). Anyway, I know the sytem is serverly flawed. It should be majorly renovated and more focus should be on rehabilitation. Especially counceling for the victim so they don't continue the cycle. Unfortunatly our country doesn't care much for rehabilitation that's why I like to focus more on the registires sinch politicians tend to not have a problem dishing out money for it. It just seems to be the best we got right now.

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#49 Alistia

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:48 PM

I can see the truth in your statements, md13. I'll concede the argument, however, I find the registries to usually have a bigger impact than just day-cares knowing about him.

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#50 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:49 PM

I do too, it's just that it was brought up, and since the info is more freely given to employers than the general public it is used more often.

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[Alistia]

So why the registry?


Registry tells people something personal about you, even if you move to a different community or whatever.


If there's going to be a sex-offender registry, then likewise there should be a sex-offendee registry. That way, we know who's more likely to have some psychological issues, so we can choose to avoid them or judge them if we wish. After all, it's not fair to get to know someone and love them, then find out they spaz on you after sex because of a flashback or something, is it?

Maybe she goes nuts enough because of the previous experience and kills the guy. See? A registry for both offenders and victims would actually be most beneficial.



(Note: My use of female as the victim was just to save on words type as an example.)

[GraniteJJ]

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 10:17 PM
Well sex offender registires are most often used to keep them from getting jobs in daycares and such. I know in CA you aren't allowed to find out much, just the general area of where they live really, and you have to go to the police station to do it. This is how it should be, to keep people from juding them. But the important thing is the police have the info if they need it, and that the offenders aren't allowed to work around kids.
Oh I found a few stats, I will keep looking for more though....
They came from this site and this site There were a lot of other stats there if you want to see, I just pulled a few out. The stats show that not only is it likely that one will rape again, but that they will do it to someone they know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Daycares and facilities of the like are supposed to do background checks on the people they hire.

For example, when I applied at a school board over the summer, they did a background check on me to see if I had a criminal record (which I don't). I also had to get a tuberculosis shot...but that's irrelevant to this.

The point is, these organizations are supposed to be checking criminal records already...should the registry really be implemented?

And I stand by the fact that a registry will not help.

[Alistia]

Being a victim as well, I don't feel comfort one bit that the state knows where they are.

Originally posted by mysticdragon13
They are a felon, they are not entitled to the same rights as everyone else as they forfitted them when they committed this kind of act. So why protect the rights of a person who has no regard for another's?

Because despite how you may see them, they're still human.

[GraniteJJ]

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 11:07 PM
You know a lot don't do background checks though (but should). A registerd sex offender is going to show up as a big red flag as aposed to just saying felon. I don't know exactly what the governemnt is allowed to dispose for regular felons but with my experience with military background checks and such, I wouldn't think it would be much.

I feel it is important to keep check on where they live. Regular felons don't have to keep the government up to date on where they live but sexual offenders are supossed to. This is to help keep them away from schools and parks and such. Being a victim I am glad that the state is keeping tabs on them.

Anyway my main point is this. They are a felon, they are not entitled to the same rights as everyone else as they forfitted them when they committed this kind of act. So why protect the rights of a person who has no regard for another's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its a sticky wicket. Yes, they did forfeit their rights by committing a crime, in theory, but how are we enforcing justice by slapping them back in the face...

Aren't we just admitting that the system fails when we have to keep tabs on these people as big threats after they have supposedly been rehabilitated? Maybe the problem isn't the people, but what we're doing to help them... <_<

[Alistia]

Bingo, Granite.



Did you know, mysticdragon13, that I'm sure a lot of pedophiles came to being one by being a victim of pedophilia themselves. It's a psychological cycle, one I'm quite familiar with myself. Registry doesn't fix anything, only makes people feel better. No offense, but that's not good enough. I'd like to be helped so I don't grab some kid in the future. But you're really only worried about me working in a day-care center after the fact? o.oa

[GraniteJJ]

[quote]Originally posted by GraniteJJ+Sep 16 2004, 07:21 PM-->

Its a sticky wicket. Yes, they did forfeit their rights by committing a crime, in theory, but how are we enforcing justice by slapping them back in the face...

Aren't we just admitting that the system fails when we have to keep tabs on these people as big threats after they have supposedly been rehabilitated? Maybe the problem isn't the people, but what we're doing to help them... <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/b][/quote]

#46 GraniteJJ

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:38 PM

Well then, shouldn't we be focusing less time and money on registries then, and much more on a solid rehabilitation.

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#47 Doopliss

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:46 PM

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 10:32 PM
I'm sorry but I do have a STRONG bias on this, and I feel it is a good thing. When they caught the guy that violated me he was already planning to do it again. So I am glad that he will be registerd. Wheather that will really keep him from doing it again, I don't know but at least I know they are at least trying. When they come up with some fool proff rehibilitation then we can do away with registries but until then I'm for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, that's really bad, I pity you .

I think that the government is unfair with criminals, the punishment for doing a crime is to ruin your life permanently. Yes, they get out of jail after they have served their time, but what happens next? They can't get job, everyone runs from them and they are often watched by the police. Yes, they did a crime, but not for that their lives have to be ruined. They're supposed to have got what they deserve for their actions after they are released.

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#48 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:46 PM

Yes I agree with granite.

I'd like to clarify a bit as I was spaced out the last few hours while posting (husband trouble). Anyway, I know the sytem is serverly flawed. It should be majorly renovated and more focus should be on rehabilitation. Especially counceling for the victim so they don't continue the cycle. Unfortunatly our country doesn't care much for rehabilitation that's why I like to focus more on the registires sinch politicians tend to not have a problem dishing out money for it. It just seems to be the best we got right now.

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#49 Alistia

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:48 PM

I can see the truth in your statements, md13. I'll concede the argument, however, I find the registries to usually have a bigger impact than just day-cares knowing about him.

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#50 Guest_mysticdragon13_*

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Posted 16 September 2004 - 10:49 PM

I do too, it's just that it was brought up, and since the info is more freely given to employers than the general public it is used more often.

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[GraniteJJ]

Well then, shouldn't we be focusing less time and money on registries then, and much more on a solid rehabilitation.

[Doopliss]

Originally posted by mysticdragon13@Sep 16 2004, 10:32 PM
I'm sorry but I do have a STRONG bias on this, and I feel it is a good thing. When they caught the guy that violated me he was already planning to do it again. So I am glad that he will be registerd. Wheather that will really keep him from doing it again, I don't know but at least I know they are at least trying. When they come up with some fool proff rehibilitation then we can do away with registries but until then I'm for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, that's really bad, I pity you .

I think that the government is unfair with criminals, the punishment for doing a crime is to ruin your life permanently. Yes, they get out of jail after they have served their time, but what happens next? They can't get job, everyone runs from them and they are often watched by the police. Yes, they did a crime, but not for that their lives have to be ruined. They're supposed to have got what they deserve for their actions after they are released.

[Alistia]

I can see the truth in your statements, md13. I'll concede the argument, however, I find the registries to usually have a bigger impact than just day-cares knowing about him.