130 replies to this topic

[Person]

At the end of ALttP, we see Link wish on the Triforce and the Light World returns to harmony. However, we are only told that the Dark World would surely pass away, leaving the fate of its inhabitants in doubt. But when we view the secret ending on the GBA remake, we see the denizens of the Dark World celebrating Ganon's defeat. They seem blissfully unaware that their world is going to die.

However, if we view the destruction of the Dark World as something else, we see this ending differently. With Ganon gone, the Dark World will indeed perish, but it will return to its purified state as the Sacred Realm. So the denizens of the Dark World are probably celebrating both Ganon's defeat and the salvation of their world at the same time.

What do you think?

Edited by Person, 01 June 2007 - 04:56 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

when we view the secret ending on the GBA remake, we see the denizens of the Dark World celebrating Ganon's defeat. They seem blissfully unaware that their world is going to die.

However, if we view the destruction of the Dark World as something else, we see this ending differently. With Ganon gone, the Dark World will indeed perish, but it will return to its purified state as the Sacred Realm. So the denizens of the Dark World are probably celebrating both Ganon's defeat and the salvation of their world at the same time.

Isn't Ganon together with the other bosses that have been killed "celebrating" his death in the secret ending too?
I don't really think the secret ending actually happens, especially since you trigger it by beating the FS Palace while Ganon still lives (I realize you can't get in there unless you killed him at least once and got the normal ending, but that doesn't really make much of a difference), it's just a little show given to you for being a good player.

[Person]

Hmm... I didn't notice that. It shows all of the other bosses, too. So does Link defeat the Shadow Links before or after he beats Ganon? The secret ending apparently reveals nothing about this. I'm inclined to believe that the Palace of the Four Sword quest happens after Ganon dies, because you have to beat him to unlock it. So what happens to all of the people/monsters in the Dark World? Are they returned to the Light World, or does the Dark World become purified?

[Raien]

Since you can never play a save file of ALTTP where Ganon has died, even in the GBA remake, the secret ending takes place before Ganon's death.

Personally, I'm finding it hard to believe that you would even bother to try and explain the ending. It's not obvious to you that it just shows enemies/bosses jumping around and says nothing about the game's storyline?

[Chaltab]

Yeah. I've not actually seen this secret ending since nobody I know has ALTTP and therefore I've never been able to play FS. However, judging by the description, it sounds like this is just a goofy little easter egg for fans.

As for the fate of the Dark World, my guess is that it turns back into the Sacred Realm. It was only the Dark World because of Ganon's wish, and it existed long before he touched the Triforce.

[Duke Serkol]

Since you can never play a save file of ALTTP where Ganon has died, even in the GBA remake, the secret ending takes place before Ganon's death.

I agree.

So what happens to all of the people/monsters in the Dark World? Are they returned to the Light World, or does the Dark World become purified?

Monsters who were people (the ones you can talk to) are returned to the Light World (as shown by the two guys on Death Mountain). The fate of the others is unclear, but Oracles (if placed later) and AoL would suggest that monsters survive the "vanishing" of the Dark World (or come into existence again when it does).
I use quotation marks for vanishing because from the credits sequence it really seems to change to reflect what is in Link's heart (as Sheik said it would in OoT)... that is Hyrule. Given the above though (and AST?) I suppose this did not last very long, unfortunately.

Interestingly, before turning to have blue sky and green vegetation like Hyrule, the Dark World seems to turn gold just briefly. Could it have been returned to its original "Golden Land" appearence before shaping itself according to Link's heart?

[Person]

The Dark World is directly tied to Ganon's wish, so it died when he did. It either vanished out of existence or transformed back into the Sacred Realm. I think it's the latter, because of Link's wish to restore light to both worlds.

[Duke Serkol]

Right, because we know exactly what Link's wish was. Totally. Every word

[Person]

Oh, come on. It's not like he wished to rule the world or anything. It was a good wish, at least.

[Duke Serkol]

It certainly was a good wish, after all its main certified effect was to bring back to life all the people that died during the game (his uncle, the king, the priest etc.) but we don't know exactly what the wish was and what it could entail.
It is possible, even likely in my opinion, that the wish did not concern the Dark World at all (the Triforce did already tell him the Dark World would vanish so why would Link concern himself with that in his wish?), and the reason it now has a blue sky and lively green vegetation is because the realm has changed to reflect what is in Link's heart (as Sheik said it behaves).
If I was to take a wild guess, I'd say the wish was probably "Restore Hyrule to the way it was before my journey begun", but I won't claim for that to be a fact (since it is not )

[MikePetersSucks]

If I was to define Link's wish, it'd probably be something cheesy like "Bringing happiness to both worlds."

But as for the fate of the Dark World, it will fade along with Ganondorf and his wish, returning to the Sacred Realm. As we see in the normal ending, those who got lost in the Dark World return to the Light World and once more take their proper forms. As for the magical monster constructs created along with the Dark World, I'd like to think they were destroyed.

[LionHarted]

I'm inclined to think that the Sacred Realm isn't a mirror of Hyrule in and of itself, but that Ganondorf's wish transforms it into the world he wants to rule, which turns out to be Hyrule. That said, we don't know what form it would take post-ALttP.

[Raien]

I'm inclined to think that the Sacred Realm isn't a mirror of Hyrule in and of itself, but that Ganondorf's wish transforms it into the world he wants to rule, which turns out to be Hyrule. That said, we don't know what form it would take post-ALttP.

That's a very interesting idea. I'm inclined to adopt it.

[Arturo]

It's not an interesting idea. It's canon

Even more interesting than ideas.

[Raien]

It's not an interesting idea. It's canon

Not exactly. If someone wants to believe that it is a reflection of Hyrule made dark by Ganon's evil heart, then there is nothing exactly canon to contradict them.

Edited by jhurvid, 02 June 2007 - 04:02 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

And I suppose what Sheik says about the Sacred Realm is not canon, eh Arturo?

[Arturo]

Let's see what canon says:

ALttP Talking Tree:

That man wished to create this world... this world is a world that reflected that man's heart.

ALttP Triforce:

The stronger that person's wish is, the more the Triforce will demonstrate that power.

Ganon's wish was to claim the world. That evil wish changed the sacred land into the World of Darkness.
Once he had stored up power there, Ganon intended come out into the World of Light in order to fulfill his wish.

Rauru:

The Temple of Light, situated in the very center of the Sacred Real, is the last stronghold against Ganondorf's evil forces.

Sheik:

The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart...
the heart of one who enters it...

Neither OoT nor ALttP say that the Sacred Realm is similar to Hyrule. They say the opposite:
-The Sacred Realm has a changing aspect, because it's a mirror that reflects the person's heart. Therefore, it doesn't have to be like Hyrule.
-The Temple of Light is on the very centre of teh Sacred Realm. Last I checked, the Temple of Tiem, which is supposed to be its counterpart in Hyrule, isn't in teh very centre of Hyrule. The geography must eb very different.
-Ganon wished to rule Hyrule. But his wish wasn't strong enough, so the Dark World was created. The implication is clear: Ganon's wish to govern Hyrule made teh Sacred Realm look like Hyrule.

Yes, it's canon.

[LionHarted]

I meant it could be believed that the Sacred Realm (which is called the Dark World) is by nature a mirror of Hyrule, as opposed to the Dark World itself, the world created by Ganondorf's wish, being a mirror of Hyrule. This had been the impression I got, until I realized that this was somewhat nonsensical after rereading some of the other descriptions of the realm.

Objects in the Light and Dark
Worlds mimic one another.
If the form of a thing changes
in one world, it will change the
shape of its twin in the other.

Edited by LionHarted, 02 June 2007 - 04:43 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

Yes, it's canon.

Hold on, there has been a misunderstanding here. I didn't realize your statement regarding canon referred to LionHarted said and thought you meant that the change was due to the content of Link's wish (skipped a couple posts, my bad).

I agree with everything you said and quoted in your last post.

I most definitely agree that the Sacred Realm didn't always look as similar to Hyrule as it does in ALttP (now Dark World).
What I think is, that since Sheik claims "the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart...", with ganon dead and Link new master of the Triforce, the realm apparently changed to reflect what is in Link's heart, which I speculate would be Hyrule. This based on the colors its landscape takes as the credits roll (and the fact that Link has never seen the old Sacred Realm, so I doubt it could be the reflection of his heart... reasonably this reflection would be based on the experiences he made during his life in Hyrule)

Edited by Duke Serkol, 02 June 2007 - 04:52 PM.

[Fyxe]

The ending credits are symbolic, they could easily represent the Triforce moving from the Dark World to the Light World along with Link.

I think the Sacred Realm taking on the form of the Light World would be just a tad redundant, don't you think?

[Duke Serkol]

The ending credits are symbolic, they could easily represent the Triforce moving from the Dark World to the Light World along with Link.

I think the Sacred Realm taking on the form of the Light World would be just a tad redundant, don't you think?

You think that's the Tower of Hera we see in the last shot (as opposed to ganon's Tower)?

Redundant, perhaps, but then so are Termina's people... and it didn't last very long anyway considering AST, Oracles and AoL...

In other news, Fyxe an avatar not featuring a busty babe: the world is going to end. Excuse me while I pack my things and run to the mountains

[Fyxe]

You think that's the Tower of Hera we see in the last shot (as opposed to ganon's Tower)?

It could easily be.

Redundant, perhaps, but then so are Termina's people...

Termina gets away with it by being a parallel world, and the fact that they're not identical copies at all. I just feel like Link wishing for two Hyrules to be... Um, kinda silly. I don't see the need, or the implication that this would occur.

In other news, Fyxe an avatar not featuring a busty babe: the world is going to end. Excuse me while I pack my things and run to the mountains

I guess you missed my Marth avatar, then? XP

I just want to see if I can make people gay for Pit. XP

He's a trap. Like Bridget. Except less so.

[Chaltab]

The ending credits are symbolic, they could easily represent the Triforce moving from the Dark World to the Light World along with Link.

I think the Sacred Realm taking on the form of the Light World would be just a tad redundant, don't you think?

You think that's the Tower of Hera we see in the last shot (as opposed to ganon's Tower)?

Redundant, perhaps, but then so are Termina's people... and it didn't last very long anyway considering AST, Oracles and AoL...

Color me ignorant, but what part did the Sacred Realm play in Adventure of Link? I thought the concept wasn't created until ALTTP.

[Duke Serkol]

You think that's the Tower of Hera we see in the last shot (as opposed to ganon's Tower)?

It could easily be.

An interesting idea. Knowing that the Dark World would vanish I had always assumed that we were witnessing its change (and there's also the fact that Link was already seen next to his uncle and putting back the Master Sword), but that could well be a possibility.

I just feel like Link wishing for two Hyrules to be... Um, kinda silly.

Hold it, hold it! I'm not saying he deliberately wished it. Since the triforce tells him the Dark World will vanish he has no reaon to concern himself with it in his wish. What I am saying is that, based on what Sheik told us of the Sacred Realm, the new shape it takes after Link obtains the triforce could reflect what is in his heart. And I would wager that would be Hyrule.

He's a trap. Like Bridget. Except less so.

Maybe I should change my avatar to Ackbar.

Color me ignorant, but what part did the Sacred Realm play in Adventure of Link? I thought the concept wasn't created until ALTTP.

When the manual says Ganon's minions are calling reinforcements from the underworld, the Japanese one actually read "demon world" (makai) the same word was also used in OoT to describe the tainted Sacred Realm.

[Chaltab]

When the manual says Ganon's minions are calling reinforcements from the underworld, the Japanese one actually read "demon world" (makai) the same word was also used in OoT to describe the tainted Sacred Realm.

Ah, I see. I suppose at the post-ALTTP point in which Ganon regains the Triforce of Power prior to LOZ would be when the Dark World returned, then?

[Duke Serkol]

Works for you since you place Oracles before ALttP. Judging by your timeline, you still have to deal with AST though

[Chaltab]

That's why I'd prefer to have the Makai of AOL a seperate Demon World than the corrupted Sacred Realm.

[Fyxe]

An interesting idea. Knowing that the Dark World would vanish I had always assumed that we were witnessing its change (and there's also the fact that Link was already seen next to his uncle and putting back the Master Sword), but that could well be a possibility.

I just think it's clearly meant to be symbolic.

What I am saying is that, based on what Sheik told us of the Sacred Realm, the new shape it takes after Link obtains the triforce could reflect what is in his heart. And I would wager that would be Hyrule.

I think that's a bit of an assumption to make. It still seems redundant. Obviously his wish was to revive Hyrule, but creating a second Hyrule alongside it is both confusing and needless (and could lead to all sorts of bizarreness). I'm fairly sure Nintendo never considered this as a possibility, and thus it's not worth considering.

Maybe I should change my avatar to Ackbar.

Eh? As in Admiral Ackbar? o.o What has that got to do with Pit or Bridget?

Edited by Fyxe, 03 June 2007 - 02:23 PM.

[Person]

Eh? As in Admiral Ackbar? o.o What has that got to do with Pit or Bridget?

It has to do with this:

Admiral Ackbar, RoTJ:
IT'S A TRAP!

Edited by Person, 03 June 2007 - 02:25 PM.

[Fyxe]

That's quite frankly the nerdiest reference ever.