73 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

To be fair, MM and TWW do have the deepest plots in Zelda (along with LA, I'd suggest) but they're still not *that* much deeper than the other games in the series. Majora's Mask is weirder and darker and quite a few things are left unsaid, and in TWW Ganon is given a somewhat sympathetic slant.

Overall though, Nintendo never throws really deep or hidden subtext into their games.

[MK.]

Nabooru's intentions were dumbed down for English I believe. I think Japanese text implies she wanted to have Link's child. (Have the next Gerudo male possibly?)

Furthermore, the 4 carpenters who got captured were gay, but that was also "dumbed down" 'cause that'd offend people [just look at how they walk around]

Edited by MK., 01 September 2006 - 08:24 PM.

[Jumbie]

Nabooru's intentions were dumbed down for English I believe. I think Japanese text implies she wanted to have Link's child. (Have the next Gerudo male possibly?)

Furthermore, the 4 carpenters who got captured were gay, but that was also "dumbed down" 'cause that'd offend people [just look at how they walk around]

I'd like to believe all that. For sure, the dumbing down has always happened in English translations of Zelda games. But regardless if the Japanese text implies it or not, Nabooru as a Gerudo just has to be interested when she finds a Hylian mating partner right under her nose..

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Furthermore, the 4 carpenters who got captured were gay, but that was also "dumbed down" 'cause that'd offend people [just look at how they walk around]

Dumbed down? How the Heck was it dumbed down? You could tell from a freaking mile away that they were gay! Especially where that one carpenter called Adult Link a "cute kid", then pranced off effeminately. Sure, it's a stereotype, but you can hardly miss it.

If Nintendo wanted to dumb it down, they'd have one of the carpenters shout out, "I'M GAY AND I FIND LINK ATTRACTIVE!" You don't get more simple and dumbed down than that.

[MikePetersSucks]

Just because someone's effeminate doesn't mean they're gay, and I'm offended by the assumption :l Being gay is about wanting to bone another guy, not about being effeminate.

Look at Tingle He's effeminate, but he's not a fairy

[Hylian Dan]

You have provided no proof. You've only provided speculation.

I didn't say I provided proof. I said that considering all the evidence it seemed more likely that the Goddess of Time was Nayru rather than some other deity.

This applies to the Goddess of Time being the Goddess of Wisdom. If the game creators had intended for them to be the same, why would they mention them as being different beings?

As Jumbie said, it's not unheard of for gods to be given multiple descriptive names. MM didn't mention Nayru by her name for the same reason Navi's name was never mentioned: people who hadn't played OoT wouldn't be familiar with those names, and those names weren't so vital to the story that they'd make a bunch of exposition about OoT's story necessary. People who had played OoT should be able to understand which characters MM was referring to, and people who hadn't played MM would still be able to appreciate the story without getting those references.
And what would would be gained by calling that being the Goddess of Wisdom? That wouldn't be as dramatic as the title "Goddess of Time," and it would be confusing, since it would seem like Link and Tatl were asking for wisdom as the moon was crashing down.

The only thing is that you fail to prove that the world was sinful. After all, the people who built the things you said were sinful, are long dead. You haven't proven that the other people were responsible or even descended from the Ikanans.

So all you're saying is that the people are being punished for something that someone else did. That makes no sense.

Maybe that's why the goddesses pitied Termina and let Link come and change its fate.

Why do you think the game creators come up with a complex story behind their standard "Monster threatens world" but not mention that story in the game at all other than the small clues that require interpretation?

From Nintendo Power:

Our primary goal is to present something that is very mysterious... Depending on which time of day you visit a particular character, he or she will be doing different things and that may reveal essential clues to the mystery that is at the heart of the game. To conquer the game and solve the mystery, players must learn all about the many characters and discover new masks.

[Jumbie]

Being gay is about wanting to bone another guy, not about being effeminate.

Which goes together very well, I've heard

MM didn't mention Nayru by her name for the same reason Navi's name was never mentioned: people who hadn't played OoT wouldn't be familiar with those names, and those names weren't so vital to the story that they'd make a bunch of exposition about OoT's story necessary. People who had played OoT should be able to understand which characters MM was referring to, and people who hadn't played MM would still be able to appreciate the story without getting those references.

That's the point, mark his words! This also separates the people that are smoothly able to answer the question of who Link's missing friend in MM was, from the ones who keep on having some unfounded doubts about it.

And what would would be gained by calling that being the Goddess of Wisdom? That wouldn't be as dramatic as the title "Goddess of Time," and it would be confusing, since it would seem like Link and Tatl were asking for wisdom as the moon was crashing down.

Well, asking the question "What am I supposed to do?" is basically the same as asking for wisdom, but since Tatl explicitly asks for more time, it was indeed necessary to have her called Goddess of Time.

[Hylian Dan]

Well, asking the question "What am I supposed to do?" is basically the same as asking for wisdom, but since Tatl explicitly asks for more time, it was indeed necessary to have her called Goddess of Time.

And it just reoccured to me that Tatl's plea was also a clue for the player to play the Song of Time.

[Kairu Hakubi]

This thread is making me giggle. I can't believe nobody's made a 'labia majora' reference yet. (perhaps you're smart, and know its japanese name is Mujura)

[Jumbie]

This thread is making me giggle. I can't believe nobody's made a 'labia majora' reference yet. (perhaps you're smart, and know its japanese name is Mujura)

I sure knew about Mujura no Kamen, but what the heck is labia majora? ...kidding

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Look, Hylian Dan, you're just throwing huge bits of speculation into a story that's pretty simple.

You say Nayru = Goddess of Time, with no evidence backing it up. You say the Goddesses willed Termina to be destroyed, with no evidence backing it up, that the Goddesses pitied Termina (which wouldn't explain why they wanted it destroyed) and so forth.

[Hylian Dan]

What parts of this theory, if any, do you think are valid?

Also I forgot that in the first room of the Stone Tower dungeon there is a FRIGGIN' BIG, DEFINITELY PART OF THE STRUCTURE AND NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS ADDED AT A LATER TIME stone representation of Majora's Mask (or at least something that is almost identical to it). I'm not yelling at anybody other than myself for not remembering that. This is not like the Gerudo symbol put on the blocks you move around (and replaced by Majora in this game) this is an integral part of the dungeon, not something to remind you who you're fighting against.

I went to check this out, and I think it very clearly implies that Majora's Mask had been sealed in Twinmold's desert and entered Termina through the Stone Tower.



The statue isn't complete, but that's because the bottom part has broken off. One of the horns is broken, and below the eyes part of the Stone Tower emblem is visible, but the rest of it is gone. I colored it in with the red. Note how the statue only has two horns on each side of the face, while Majora's Mask has four horns on each side.

The door above the statue of Majora leads directly to the boss's lair. It's the only way to reach the desert realm.



And in the desert there are monuments depicting Majora's Mask. They show the mask with what seem to be a nose and a mouth, and only two full-sized horns on each side of the face.

[Jumbie]

Those are some nice finds you posted there! Still I'm totally undecided as to what extent this imagery could have been intended as storyline-related hints...

[Chaltab]

Original Poster:

Your idea would make an interesting fanfic, but I seriously, seriously doubt this is what Nintendo had in mind when writing the story.