61 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

Prove that Nintendo gives so much thought to geography. For heaven's sake, don't just say they do when you have no actual evidence for such a fact.

[Fyxe]

They take it seriously when it comes to the individual games themselves, but as a whole timeline, they really don't worry about it that much.

FSA has a lot of homages to ALttP, the similarities in the map being one of them. The map is just that in FSA, a map, the actual placement of the locations doesn't matter to gameplay so they just paid homage to ALttP.

TLoZ's Hyrule can only be *barely* compared to the maps of other games. It certainly doesn't share many comparisons to ALttP's map, other than the fact that the mountain is to the north, big whoop, that's because if you put a mountain at the south on a 2D game then it wouldn't be a mountain.

They care about geography when it comes to the individual games, but they're not going to sacrifice gameplay for the sake of making the maps all the same.

[Hero of Slime]

master of ALttP, you have not explained why the creators of FS just abandoned the compass direction tradition and put south as the top of screen.

[LionHarted]

To Fyxe: Even if FSA's map is "just a map", the characters make it a point to tell you when you're in "Northern Hyrule."

[Jumbie]

Davogones' articles on Zelda's geography: http://www.zeldalege...hp?n=article_18

Did you point that out for a particular reason? That articles series by the grandmaster is of course on what all my geographical ideas are based, and so should be those of everyone else. Unfortunately, TWW came out after he wrote that, but it doesn't really matter as it happens in its own timeline anyway.

Yep, I've got those puppies lying around somewhere, I'll just have a quick look...

EDIT: Here we go...

That.. is.. breathtaking..! I cannot thank you enough!

Well, it definitely proves that the Hyrule in FSA is an island.

FSA's overhead map shows nothing that the stage selection map hadn't already shown, so it does not prove that FSA's Hyrule is an island. That is merely how the overworld map was portrayed, but these artworks are artificial and totally inconsistent with the actual level design. Discussing about FSA's geography, one has to use the in-game level maps first and foremost. (They're available at Ganonstower.com, by the way)
In fact, LoZ and AoL showed that South Hyrule is a peninsula, having a mountain range to the north *and west*, and a coast to the east and south. That must be the coast that is shown in FSA.

And I almost forgot about the islands you see from the Palace of Winds in TMC. Ah, that was one of the neatest dungeons. But that shows that TMC isn't too far away from the ocean, at least.

Right. The small islands are no problem because we already knew that Hyrule is near the ocean from LoZ, AoL and Oracles. AoL shows many small islands, while Hyrule itself (South and North) is supposedly what we would call main land.

I dunno, there were quite a few similarities between it and ALttP Hyrule.

For example Zora's Fountain, Zora's River, the remains of Lake Hylia...

I can't explain why that is. They originally intended for up to be north, but since they don't tell us in the game that up is north, then we can't tell which way is.

Why do you need to turn FS' map after all? It's just a little sketch of Hyrule that shows the 4 or 5 stages of the game, as a mere placeholder. We can totally disregard FS' map when doing comparisons. Moreover, Death Mountain is to the north like always, so everything should be fine, no?

To Fyxe: Even if FSA's map is "just a map", the characters make it a point to tell you when you're in "Northern Hyrule."

Yes, that's said when they fly to Death Mountain foothills in FSA. (This has nothing to do with AoL's North Hyrule though)

[Fyxe]

Then why is it that in almost all Nintendo-made Zelda's we see a layout to Hyrule that's almost exactly the same in every game?

Uh, we don't. I just covered this.

That is true, but they end up making the geography work with the other games in the end. Except Capcom. They have to f*** with everything.

Firstly, the most Nintendo does is reuse locations. The placement of these locations is primarily down to what works best for the game design. Mountains are in the north because it doesn't look right if they're at the south of an isometric map. As for everything else... Well, their placement seems to be variable as it is.

And yet you complain that Capcom fucks it up simply because they don't reuse locations.

To Fyxe: Even if FSA's map is "just a map", the characters make it a point to tell you when you're in "Northern Hyrule."

Again, you have an unthathomable talent at completely missing the point I was making.

Why is he the so-called "grandmaster" of such things? Why should I go by what he says? I only listen to one person in timeline debate, and that's me.

I think that was the exact instance that Lex was talking about. We call LionHarted Lex for short. You can start doing that if you want.

Why should we call him Lex? Why should we go by what you say? I'm going to call him Pinsleworth.

[LionHarted]

Uh, we don't. I just covered this.

Mountains to the north, lake/body of water to the east, forest to the northwest or southeast, desert to the west, swamp to the south, castle in the center, ranch south of center.

That's the template. It never changes. Ever.

Again, you have an unthathomable talent at completely missing the point I was making.

What was your point? It should be perfectly clear if you have one.

[Showsni]

Mountains to the north, lake/body of water to the east, forest to the northwest or southeast, desert to the west, swamp to the south, castle in the center, ranch south of center.

That's the template. It never changes. Ever.

If that's true, then it's all fine and dandy but useless for timeline debating. If every game has the same geographical layout, as you claim, they can go in absolutely any order and it will still work.

[Fyxe]

Mountains to the north, lake/body of water to the east, forest to the northwest or southeast, desert to the west, swamp to the south, castle in the center, ranch south of center.

That's the template. It never changes. Ever.

Ohhhh ha. Ha. Firstly, Lake Hylia is to the WEST in OoT. It's to the NORTHeast in FSA, and southeast in ALttP. The fact that the forest is in either the northwest and the southeast shows that it DOES change, and it's in the southwest in TLoZ. The swamp is to the west in TMC, Hyrule Castle is in the north in a few games, and the ranch has only appeared in two games and it was in two different locations. The deserty bit is in the center of Hyrule in TLoZ, as is the lake.

If anything, Hyrule is very different most of the time. The template is *always* changing.

What was your point? It should be perfectly clear if you have one.

I was making the point that Nintendo based the map of FSA on the ALttP map because the actual layout of the map had zero effect on the gameplay. It was perfectly clear. You ignored it.

Besides, FSA's Hyrule is surrounded by water while the Hyrule in ALttP is surrounded by mountains and forests.

Edited by Fyxe, 16 August 2006 - 06:06 PM.

[LionHarted]

Ohhhh ha. Ha. Firstly, Lake Hylia is to the WEST in OoT.

Point made.

It's to the NORTHeast in FSA

It seems to actually be Zora's Fountain in FSA.

The fact that the forest is in either the northwest and the southeast shows that it DOES change

The Lost Woods from OoT are in roughly the same place as the Minish Woods in TMC, and the Royal Valley woods are in roughly the same place as the Lost Woods in FSA/ALttP.

The swamp is to the west in TMC

South-west.

Hyrule Castle is in the north in a few games

But still south of the mountains.

and the ranch has only appeared in two games and it was in two different locations.

Central Hyrule field?

I was making the point that Nintendo based the map of FSA on the ALttP map because the actual layout of the map had zero effect on the gameplay. It was perfectly clear. You ignored it.

You're right.

So why base the map on the ALttP map at all?

Besides, FSA's Hyrule is surrounded by water while the Hyrule in ALttP is surrounded by mountains and forests.

And clouds that hide anything else that surrounds it.

[Fyxe]

It seems to actually be Zora's Fountain in FSA.

It's not. It's Lake Hylia. It's called Lake Hylia, there aren't many Zoras (I don't remember any Zoras in the first few levels).

The Lost Woods from OoT are in roughly the same place as the Minish Woods in TMC, and the Royal Valley woods are in roughly the same place as the Lost Woods in FSA/ALttP.

Firstly, the woods which you insist on calling 'Royal Valley Woods' even though they are never named and not even seen in-game are to the north, surrounded by fairly hilly terrain.

South-west.

No, the ruins are to the south west, the swamp is to the west.

But still south of the mountains.

It's west of the mountain in OoT and inbetween the mountains in TMC.

Central Hyrule field?

No, in TMC it was off to the east, very close to Lake Hylia.

You're right.

So why base the map on the ALttP map at all?

Because the whole game is full of homages to ALttP. The graphics and enemies are virtually identical. So they based the map on ALttP as another homage. Zelda games are full of homages. The reuse of locations is a homage in itself.

And clouds that hide anything else that surrounds it.

I don't see how that affects my point. I don't deny that there will be something beyond the mountains, but in the immediate vicinity it's just mountains and forests, while in FSA it's primarily ocean surrounding Hyrule.

Actually, Lake Hylia is to the southwest in OoT.

He said east, I said west, I think south was implied.

In FSA, Lake Hylia is the source of water for Hyrule, much like Zora's Fountain in ALttP. Because the two are similar in appearance, location, and function, they must be the same.

That's just a pile of squibble. Just because it's a river with waterfalls doesn't mean it's the same river with the same waterfalls. It's called Lake Hylia. Therefore it's Lake Hylia.

Lake Hylia in ALttP is likely a man-made lake or the result of a lot of flooding.

It's a lake. Why make up a backstory for it?

Oh, and Lon Lon Ranch has been in three games. OoT, FSA, and TMC.

I can't remember much about in in FSA and couldn't be sure if it was named or not.

The template often remains with the same concepts in mind, but it's never exactly the same. Water always flows from the northeast of Hyrule, and there's always mountains to the north (but this is a game design issue).

As you say, it's primarily a game design issue. The water has to flow from the mountains. The mountains have to be at the north.

The reason FSA's map has Hyrule surrounded by water is probably meant to imply that Link and Tetra found a new land after TWW. But, whatever. That doesn't really matter to me.

Possibly. It's one of the few cases where the geography provides an interesting take on things. But it's still not that big a deal.

Edited by Fyxe, 16 August 2006 - 06:58 PM.

[Jumbie]

Why is he the so-called "grandmaster" of such things? Why should I go by what he says? I only listen to one person in timeline debate, and that's me.

Well, simply because the community has never seen a greater Zelda timeline and geography theorist than him. Of course I don't follow his words blindly, but listening to what he had to say in his articles on ZeldaLegends.net is very, very helpful to gain the necessary knowledge of timeline debating. I think every Zelda fan ought to read his articles - it would promptly turn a huge amount of n00bs into educated theorists, that much is certain.

Also, if we are going by LoZ Hyrule also being ALttP Hyrule, and we know the boundaries of ALttP's Hyrule from FSA, then AoL starts to mess with things a bit. (...) This conflicts with what we see of Hyrule in FSA, so there has to be an explanation. Mine is that the area that Hyrule is in is extremely volcanic, and those islands appeared during the hundreds of years between FSA and AoL.

It's by no means AoL that messes things up - it's FSA with it's artificial overworld map! That's why I said we must use FSA's in-game level maps instead, and disregard that the stage selection map portrays Hyrule as an island, which isn't possible no matter what volcanic theory you may invent. FSA contradicts AoL, but since FSA also contradicts itself (overworld vs. in-game maps), we have to rather base everything on AoL instead on FSA.

Oh, good. I thought all you guys (and girls, there's also girls here) would be a lot more picky about the maps, but I guess you're going to allow the Four Swords map to slide.

"Always know where to put an end, young thinker!"

We call LionHarted Lex for short. You can start doing that if you want.

Thanks for permitting it, but I'm undecided yet.. Fyxe proposed something else..

Mountains are in the north because it doesn't look right if they're at the south of an isometric map.

Not in TMC, Mt Crenel is to the north-east. ..Before you start to rage again, I'm aware of your point, but there are ways to put a mountain somewhere else than straight north without hindering the gameplay. They could easily fit another part of landscape behind a mountain where the highest peak ends.

Why should we call him Lex? Why should we go by what you say? I'm going to call him Pinsleworth.

Lol, that's great! But it's even longer than LionHarted..

If that's true, then it's all fine and dandy but useless for timeline debating. If every game has the same geographical layout, as you claim, they can go in absolutely any order and it will still work.

Yes, and that's the good thing about geography debating, the games' maps resemble each other anyway, so our timelines really depend solely on canon quote evidence. ..With the exception that OoT, ALttP, FSA and LoZ are so similar to each other (in that decreasing order) that there cannot possibly be any TWW in between them.

Firstly, Lake Hylia is to the WEST in OoT. It's to the NORTHeast in FSA, and southeast in ALttP.

West in OoT and southeast in ALttP are the exact same place if you turn the map by 45° (which can't be avoided anyway, and actually doesn't hurt, either). Then, the so-called "Lake Hylia" in FSA is hardly a lake at all. If you look at the actual stage, you'll see that it's undoubtedly Zora's River/Fountain. I don't care if they title the level with "Lake Hylia" - if I were to accept that, then what should I do if one day they'll title Death Mountain with "Lost Woods", also believe that?!

The fact that the forest is in either the northwest and the southeast shows that it DOES change, and it's in the southwest in TLoZ.

All three of those woods are different ones, logically. Woods are a group of trees, able to grow and wither, not a fix location. In ALttP's woods there live thieves, while in OoT's woods we have the Kokiri village. Keep in mind, there's even a forest called "Lost Woods" in Holodrum.

Hyrule Castle is in the north in a few games, and the ranch has only appeared in two games and it was in two different locations.

Again, both are buildings, able to be torn down and rebuild elsewhere. Whenever human hands are involved, geographical changes can be easily explained away.

Besides, FSA's Hyrule is surrounded by water while the Hyrule in ALttP is surrounded by mountains and forests.

I think Hyrule is *always* surrounded by mountains and forests (at least to the north and west), and that FSA's nice little overworld map is simply inaccurate and not to be relied on.

EDIT:

there aren't many Zoras (I don't remember any Zoras in the first few levels).

There is one single Zora in Level 1-1, sitting right inside the big pool that we know as Zora's Fountain from OoT and ALttP.

Firstly, the woods which you insist on calling 'Royal Valley Woods' even though they are never named and not even seen in-game are to the north, surrounded by fairly hilly terrain.

These woods are explicitly called "Lost Woods" in the game, because guess what, they're based on LoZ's Lost Woods. They are very well seen in-game, if you put on your lantern, that is. No honestly, the area right before the graveyard is the Lost Woods for a fact.

Edited by Jumbie, 16 August 2006 - 07:02 PM.

[Fyxe]

Not in TMC, Mt Crenel is to the north-east. ..Before you start to rage again, I'm aware of your point, but there are ways to put a mountain somewhere else than straight north without hindering the gameplay. They could easily fit another part of landscape behind a mountain where the highest peak ends.

They could if they really wanted to, but it wouldn't be practical on the map for the 2D games. The mountains have to appear higher than everything else, but if there was land behind it, then you wouldn't be able to see it on the map because it would be, well, behind the mountain.

Lol, that's great! But it's even longer than LionHarted..

It's much more appropriate than 'Lex', though. And funnier.

West in OoT and southeast in ALttP are the exact same place if you turn the map by 45° (which can't be avoided anyway, and actually doesn't hurt, either).

But north in OoT is north. And north in ALttP is north. There's a compass on the OoT map and people in ALttP talk of north as, well, being north.

Then, the so-called "Lake Hylia" in FSA is hardly a lake at all. If you look at the actual stage, you'll see that it's undoubtedly Zora's River/Fountain.

No, look at the map, there's a huge lake from which river runs from. The only reason that isn't shown in-game is because the stage is meant to be easy, and making the player go straight into aquatic difficulties isn't particularly gentle. So instead we skip most of the lake and just traverse downriver.

I don't care if they title the level with "Lake Hylia" - if I were to accept that, then what should I do if one day they'll title Death Mountain with "Lost Woods", also believe that?!

You're just being stupid now. A lake is a lake is a lake. There's no other lake in the game so it's Lake Hylia. This just proves my point that Nintendo just reuses the types of locations and names for locations and really don't put a huge amount of thought into it.

All three of those woods are different ones, logically. Woods are a group of trees, able to grow and wither, not a fix location.

They don't just hop around like that though. If some Lost Woods are different Lost Woods, then why do you make such a fuss about Lake Hylia being different? Lakes can move over time due to people building dams or whatnot, or the natural progression of flooding.

I think Hyrule is *always* surrounded by mountains and forests (at least to the north and west), and that FSA's nice little overworld map is simply inaccurate and not to be relied on.

You can't just deride something as being innaccurate whenever it's convenient for you. I mean, hell, you SEE the world from above, it's clearly surrounded by ocean. You can't just outright claim the visuals as being wrong.

Edited by Fyxe, 16 August 2006 - 07:11 PM.

[Jumbie]

It's much more appropriate than 'Lex', though. And funnier.

Well you're right...

But north in OoT is north. And north in ALttP is north. There's a compass on the OoT map and people in ALttP talk of north as, well, being north.

Hm, I can't find one single mention of north, south or west in all of ALttP's textdump. Yes, there is the Eastern Area, but it is still quite to the east after you turn the map by 45° to get OoT's position. Btw, Death Mountain is always quite to the north, both in ALttP and OoT.

No, look at the map, there's a huge lake from which river runs from. The only reason that isn't shown in-game is because the stage is meant to be easy, and making the player go straight into aquatic difficulties isn't particularly gentle. So instead we skip most of the lake and just traverse downriver.

...Aha? I actually think this first level is the one with the most aquatic action, even more than the coast. Why not try this one: they simply put a river level into the game and have Link traverse downriver? And since they show the coast now, for a change, a Lake Hylia would have been abundant.

You're just being stupid now. A lake is a lake is a lake. There's no other lake in the game so it's Lake Hylia. This just proves my point that Nintendo just reuses the types of locations and names for locations and really don't put a huge amount of thought into it.

I see no lake when I look at the in-game level map. If Nintendo had called it Zora's River like usually, they would've been forced to put in many Zoras to honour its name, but so they just thought, "Well it's a body of water, let's dub it Lake Hylia cause the players can relate to that". That's hardly enough to coerce me to accept the name "Lake Hylia".

They don't just hop around like that though. If some Lost Woods are different Lost Woods, then why do you make such a fuss about Lake Hylia being different? Lakes can move over time due to people building dams or whatnot, or the natural progression of flooding.

Lakes are geographical features, but woods are made of living beings. Trees can grow in less than a century, which is the usual timespan between the Zelda games, without even one Hylian moving his thumb. It's understandable that I prefer the move of woods over the move of lakes, isn't it?

You can't just deride something as being innaccurate whenever it's convenient for you. I mean, hell, you SEE the world from above, it's clearly surrounded by ocean. You can't just outright claim the visuals as being wrong.

FSA's overworld map is meant to be a stylistic device: surround the land with water to make it seem even more isolated a country than it already appears as, anyway. But that doesn't mean there really is ocean all around. Actually, you can't even see much of the overhead map from the Realm of Heavens level, which suggests that it isn't meant to be important if it's an island or a penninsula. Weren't you always telling people that graphics style is not evidence?

Edited by Jumbie, 16 August 2006 - 07:55 PM.

[spunky-monkey]

Then why is it that in almost all Nintendo-made Zelda's we see a layout to Hyrule that's almost exactly the same in every game?

A very poor argument. Hyrule will *always* have castles, forests, villages, mountains, lakes and so on for every individual game because it's required to have terrain for you (Link) to explore otherwise there would be no adventure/quest in the first place. A game design issue. Yes it's true Nintendo cares about geography enough to offer the average gamer some challenge and that's why originality is priority. The cold fact is that developers couldn't give a monkey's about single timelines.

Did you point that out for a particular reason? That articles series by the grandmaster is of course on what all my geographical ideas are based, and so should be those of everyone else. Unfortunately, TWW came out after he wrote that, but it doesn't really matter as it happens in its own timeline anyway.

Well, simply because the community has never seen a greater Zelda timeline and geography theorist than him. Of course I don't follow his words blindly, but listening to what he had to say in his articles on ZeldaLegends.net is very, very helpful to gain the necessary knowledge of timeline debating. I think every Zelda fan ought to read his articles - it would promptly turn a huge amount of n00bs into educated theorists, that much is certain.

Please don't use davogones as the basis of your argument Jumbie, it's disrespectful and causes no end of strain on those of us who do know him. Reference his work by all means, but don't drag him into the discussion every time you feel it necessary.

[LionHarted]

A very poor argument. Hyrule will *always* have castles, forests, villages, mountains, lakes and so on for every individual game because it's required to have terrain for you (Link) to explore otherwise there would be no adventure/quest in the first place. A game design issue. Yes it's true Nintendo cares about geography enough to offer the average gamer some challenge and that's why originality is priority.

Yet (from ALttP onwards) they always use the same two peaks, a forest in either the east or northwest, a Lake Hylia, a waterfall in the northeast, a desert to the west, a swamp to the south, the castle to center-north. You'd think if the map existed purely for gameplay purposes they would afford some variety into the overworld design.

The cold fact is that developers couldn't give a monkey's about single timelines.

That's a very biased--not to mention bullshitted--presentation of your point. You don't know what the developers care about, as you're not the developers.

Edited by LionHarted, 17 August 2006 - 10:35 AM.

[spunky-monkey]

Yet (from ALttP onwards) they always use the same two peaks, a forest in either the east or northwest, a Lake Hylia, a waterfall in the northeast, a desert to the west, a swamp to the south, the castle to center-north. You'd think if the map existed purely for gameplay purposes they would afford some variety into the overworld design.

That's a 2D game design issue - Mountains are always logically up at the top of the playable map (this was also the case with OoT & MM). Obviously, the virtual environment is limited and cannot go on forever so it must have natural boundaries like mountains and oceans that are convincing to the gamer. TWW is the only exception.

That's a very biased--not to mention bullshitted--presentation of your point. You don't know what the developers care about, as you're not the developers.

Another cold fact is that developers only care about their pay checks, or are you saying I'm losing my grip with reality?

[LionHarted]

That's a 2D game design issue - Mountains are always logically up at the top of the playable map (this was also the case with OoT & MM).

Agreed. But that doesn't cover all the other geographical features.

Another cold fact is that developers only care about their pay checks, or are you saying I'm losing my grip with reality?

Then they don't care about split timelines, either. Again, my comment was about your bias, not the information.

[spunky-monkey]

Then they don't care about split timelines, either. Again, my comment was about your bias, not the information.

How was I bias for telling the truth? ¬.¬

Developers don't give things like timelines any real thought especially with an angry supervisor breathing down their necks about deadlines. The closest thing to what you're suggesting is called homage where designers borrow old ideas from other games and reuse them for upcoming titles... Fyxe has already explained this perfectly.

[LionHarted]

How was I bias for telling the truth? ¬.¬

The way you presented your truth was biased. If all the developers care about is money they don't care about a single or a split timeline.

Developers don't give things like timelines any real thought especially with an angry supervisor breathing down their necks about deadlines. The closest thing to what you're suggesting is called homage where designers borrow old ideas from other games and reuse them for upcoming titles... Fyxe has already explained this perfectly.

I don't care what Fyxe has to say about developer intentions. I only care what developers have to say about developer intentions. The developers have never said that overworld layout doesn't matter, so I can assume that it may potentially hold some significance.

Edited by LionHarted, 17 August 2006 - 11:20 AM.

[Fyxe]

The developers have said enough. Gameplay comes first. Storyline comes much lower down on the list of priorities. They have SAID this. As the geography often affects the gameplay, then making the geography fit the storyline to the detriment of gameplay is not something they are ever going to do.

You should care what I say, because unlike some people I don't just blurt out stuff for the sake of my own timeline theory, because I don't even HAVE one, to be quite honest. You're just looking for coincidences where you want them, and you ignore anything that goes against your own timeline again and again.

[Jumbie]

Please don't use davogones as the basis of your argument Jumbie, it's disrespectful and causes no end of strain on those of us who do know him. Reference his work by all means, but don't drag him into the discussion every time you feel it necessary.

Huh, what the hell is wrong now?! You consider me disrespectful when I praise his wonderful contributions to Zelda theorizing? In all honesty, that's the greatest respect I could show towards him, don't you think!
And what is supposed to be strained here? In case davogones may want to distance himself from his previous doings (which I cannot possibly know), then I will from now on refer to his work as "the articles on ZL", if you insist on that.
Really, I don't see what mistake you think I made...

[LionHarted]

The developers have said enough. Gameplay comes first. Storyline comes much lower down on the list of priorities. They have SAID this.

Does that mean that it is unimportant, or just less important than gameplay?

As the geography often affects the gameplay, then making the geography fit the storyline to the detriment of gameplay is not something they are ever going to do.

Making the storyline fit the geography seems to be what MoALttP is advocating in this thread, not vice-versa. I do agree with your point, though.

You should care what I say, because unlike some people I don't just blurt out stuff for the sake of my own timeline theory, because I don't even HAVE one, to be quite honest. You're just looking for coincidences where you want them, and you ignore anything that goes against your own timeline again and again.

I have a theory, but I would prefer to be convinced of another theory, as that means that my personal bias didn't go into creating the theory.

[Jumbie]

Looking at the overworld map for FSA, you could say that the development team intended for Link and Zelda to have found a new land to call Hyrule.

How so, seeing as FSA's Hyrule also resembles OoT's Hyrule a lot? Both have Death Mountain with Spectacle Rock, both have Zora's Fountain, both have Kakariko, both have the Desert.. What's more, both Hyrules have the same races settling there: Hylians, Gorons, Deku, Gerudo. Knowing that the Gerudo and Deku didn't even appear in TWW, how can you be so sure they also found their way to a New Hyrule after Tetra and Link arrived there? Regardless if they survived the Flood or not, it's a far stretch to say they joined the mostly Hylian population of the Great Sea in their settling on a New Hyrule.