Did you not read what I wrote?
Isaac and Ishmael were both sons of Abraham. Jews and Christians believe the blessings of God went through Isaac, while Muslims believe the blessings of God were delivered through Ishmael. It's hard to reconcile that they both believe in the same God, if that God contradicted himself.
Old Testament God
Started by
Zythe
, Sep 24 2004 02:51 PM
76 replies to this topic
#32
Hero of Winds
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 06:06 PM
Ah, I see. But don't Muslims still treat Allah as being the same as the God of Abraham?
#33
GraniteJJ
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 06:10 PM
Um...how did God contradict himself?
I thought he said he'd impart blessings to the descendants of Abraham...not the descendant (Isaac or Ishmael).
I thought he said he'd impart blessings to the descendants of Abraham...not the descendant (Isaac or Ishmael).
#34
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 06:16 PM
That's not an easy explanation. Why don't you read Genesis and find out for yourself?
#35
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 07:21 PM
I think it was ALL of Abraham's decendants... Genesis says god blessed Issac, and then it talks about Ishmael, but nothing about either of them being denied anything. I think the fact that Ishmael was first-born and Issac was specially blessed sorta balances the heirdom of godliness.
#36
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 08:41 PM
Ishmael was also illegitimate.
#37
Alakhriveion
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 08:52 PM
No, he was the son of Sarah's slave. That's a little different- Legitimate, but not proper.
#38
arunma
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:06 PM
Let me just point out that you don't need to believe in Islam to believe that Allah is Yahweh. Allah isn't a personal name for God, it should be rendered in English as "the God," in Hebrew as "Elohim" or (perhaps) in Greek as "Kurios Theos."
By the way, Ishmael was specifically blessed by God, in the Bible.
By the way, Ishmael was specifically blessed by God, in the Bible.
#39
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:14 PM
No, he was the son of Sarah's slave. That's a little different- Legitimate, but not proper.
Only if Abraham claimed him as a son...which he probably did. I can't remember.
#40
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:18 PM
still this "contradiction" is hardly enough to consider them worshiping different gods. Sure its a difference of belief, but some christians believe Jesus was not the literal son of god.
#41
Alakhriveion
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:22 PM
Oh, was that the discussion? I don't really see different god there... Jesus is different, but the ineffable God and Allah don't seem seperate... then, what do I know?
I know that Obama and Dean speeches are free on iTunes, that's what I know.
I know that Obama and Dean speeches are free on iTunes, that's what I know.
#42
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:26 PM
*gasp!* Alak capitalized God!
#43
Alakhriveion
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 09:27 PM
<,< It was a typo? A freudian typo, doubtless... like "reslut" and "confused for a sex"...
#44
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:16 PM
I think this whole issue tends to be grossly oversimplified. Don't trouble me for exact references right now, but I do recall plenty of examples that go against this supposed norm.Originally posted by Zythe@Sep 24 2004, 11:51 AM
God seems friendly in the New Testament and Koran but not in the Old Testament or the Torah.
What is your reason for this if any? Which do you beleive is the true personality of God if there is any?
The God of the old testament often lamented how he loved Israel, but like a wayward child they rebelled against him. He wanted to hold them in his arms, but instead they spit in his face. God sounds pretty loving/friendly to me.
Jesus often talks about hell and about how worthless souls will be thrown in the garbage heap and burned like trash. (Figuratively speaking, of course.) Sounds pretty scary/angry to me.
My point is that God shows both characteristics in both the old and new testaments. It's a common dilemna, between love and justice. God has been punishing and offering forgiveness since the old testament, and he hasn't stopped doing this in the new testament.
#45
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:45 PM
Course if you wanna get all mixed religious bag, God is following Tao.
#46
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:53 PM
Davogones is right. If you think that God is different in the New Testament, just check out what he does to King Herod.
As for Alak capitalizing God, he's done far better (or worse, from his point of view). One time he wrote "G-d." But then, that's not really a sign of respect as much as it is a Torah commandment. You're allowed to write God's name, but you aren't supposed to erase or desecrate it. Sure, backspacing God's name on a computer is OK (because it isn't a permanent form), but Jews get worried that someone might print it out and erase God's name, which is why they omit vowels and write it as G-d.
You see Alak, even I didn't falsely accuse you of theism! Besides, we all know that there's a repressed theistic Jew somewhere down there. If you ever quit smoking pot, he'll come out (oh, the horror!).
As for Alak capitalizing God, he's done far better (or worse, from his point of view). One time he wrote "G-d." But then, that's not really a sign of respect as much as it is a Torah commandment. You're allowed to write God's name, but you aren't supposed to erase or desecrate it. Sure, backspacing God's name on a computer is OK (because it isn't a permanent form), but Jews get worried that someone might print it out and erase God's name, which is why they omit vowels and write it as G-d.
You see Alak, even I didn't falsely accuse you of theism! Besides, we all know that there's a repressed theistic Jew somewhere down there. If you ever quit smoking pot, he'll come out (oh, the horror!).
#47
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:55 PM
I dont' see why capitalizing a proper noun is such a big deal...
#48
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:56 PM
Because generally, I don't recognise/respect it that much...
#49
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:57 PM
Way to defy English grammar. You show that English teacher!
#50
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:59 PM
Hey Alak, I thought the reason you did it is because you considered God to be more of a force than a person? Well, whatever. None of the apostles capitalized God either.
#51
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:06 PM
No, it's because I don't consider the English noun "god" any more meaningful than "diety" or "dios," The god I don't believe in says in a book I don't believe is factual to people I don't believe ever existed that a tenant of a faith I've spent a lot of time confronting is that the god I don't believe in's name is Hebrew- and I'll be DAMNED if I go against that! Or... something, I don't know.
#52
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:09 PM
Yes, God's real name is in Hebrew. The English version of God's name, however, is in Hebrew. Capitalizing it signifies that the word refers to the Hebrew God's name rather than any random other god.
#53
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 09:48 PM
*Watches Alak go theist*Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 26 2004, 02:06 PM
No, it's because I don't consider the English noun "god" any more meaningful than "diety" or "dios," The god I don't believe in says in a book I don't believe is factual to people I don't believe ever existed that a tenant of a faith I've spent a lot of time confronting is that the god I don't believe in's name is Hebrew- and I'll be DAMNED if I go against that! Or... something, I don't know.
#54
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 09:44 AM
Religious, maybe- not theist.
#55
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:40 PM
Ha! Come on Alak, I know you're a closet theist.
#56
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:59 AM
Chant Alak chant!
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Sorry I had to chant Yahweh.
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Yod Hey Vava Hey
Sorry I had to chant Yahweh.
#57
Alakhriveion
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 11:00 AM
4, Zythe. 4.
#59
Alakhriveion
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 11:33 AM
4. Middle Finger.
#60
Zythe
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Posted 28 September 2004 - 11:41 AM
You're swearing at me? Oh, the list of words Krusty can't say?
