What are the inconsistencies there?
The huge problem is that currently we don't have a game where a new Ganondorf enters the Sacred Realm, acquires the Triforce, and is sealed by the Seven Sages - except for OoT! Until another game with such a storyline is made (which I doubt will happen, with this storyline being overused already), I can't accept to put anything between OoT and ALttP.
The second problem is of course that ALttP describes events that occurred in a similar way around the era of OoT, so that's the other side of the mandatory connection that I refuse to sacrifice.
One Ganon dies, a new one is born. We accept this for Link and Zelda in between games yet we must know or see everytime it happens to Ganon?
We don't need to hear that Ganondorf was reborn, but we need to see him being sealed in the Sacred Realm another time.
Since when does “grammar” know what Zelda games are trying to convey?
Grammar tells us what we are to understand from a sentence. As simple as that. You're ignoring what the line really says.
"Flowing out" simply means it came out of the temple and "through" means it left the boss or his lair by way of the temple.
Sure, the magic could flow through
the temple and at the same time out
of it. But such a thing cannot possibly be expressed by the one sentence we are dealing with.
Let's insert in the following line our respective ideas of where the magic originated:
The magic flows out (of the SR) through the temples. [my interpretation]
The magic flows out (of the temples) through the temples. [your interpretation]
Now which one is the redundant and which one the obvious one?
You act as if the temple’s are evil, but they are not. They are only evil because of the boss, and once removed there s no medium for evil to “flow out through”.
I didn't imply that. I said that the temples are at multiple times shown to have a connection to the Sacred Realm/Dark World.
In no way does grammar specify “through” that it must be from another realm, because people don’t normally use the word to describe things coming from another realm since this is a fantasy.
That's not the problem. If we replace it with more common concepts, it's the same issue:
"The water flows out (of the cave) through the crack." -- works.
"The water flows out (of the crack) through the crack." -- redundant.
By the logic in your second point, even after Link defeats the boss, shouldn't evil still "flow out through"? Since is not really the boss who is making evil the boss doesn't even matter, aside from keeping the sages from awakening. Then after that, they all go to the Temple of Light, not their respective temples.
The role of the bosses is to taint the temples and surroundings. The magic flowing out of the Dark World is what froze Zora's Domain, spread the monsters in Kokiri Forest, etc. So, the bosses are the magic that flowed out of the Dark World (which is called "makai", world of demons, for a reason).
No, the evil logically stops flowing out once the respective sage, the guardian of the temple, is awakened. The game suggests that after a boss is removed, the temple is cleansed.
And even if new monsters kept flowing out after clearing a temple, they would very soon be sealed away with Ganon in the Dark World at the end of the game anyway.
"Ganondorf and his minions are using the Spirit Temple as a hideout." -Naboorou
They just used the temples as places to stay while they prevented the sages from awakening.
I've already made my point. But btw, this line refers to Koume and Kotake, and the Japanese version calls the witches "Ganondorf's gang" (in a different quote from this one).
As for the part about Link returning to the Temple of Light after each dungeon, its a game-play mechanic. Would you rather, after completing the dungeon, walk all the way back to the Temple of Time to hear what the sages have to say? Also, Link has warped out of temples and dungeons in all his games, is not far fetched to say that warp point is simple magic used to transport him back to the Temple of Time.
After all non-temple dungeons, Link is sent straight outside. Only in the OoT temples, he is sent to the Chamber of Sages. We aren't shown Link in the ToT.
And besides, if Link attempted to enter the Chamber of Sages from the ToT, all he would achieve is going back to the past...
Ganondorf was in Hyrule. His bosses were the means of evil. The temples were hotels they stayed in while defiling the sacred grounds of each of them.
Correct. And what's the problem..?
Are you saying I don't like you way of theorizing? In reality, I like the "idea" that if ALTTP fails, then WW ensues, but is just not supported. Its fine by me, the only point in your explanation where you require and open mind is that point, I believe.
We don't require any support for this, other than the fact that the games' events fit much better if we open a third timeline.
In the beginning, many fans didn't "allow" the developers to establish a split timeline. People tried everything to twist their statements, just to somehow maintain a single timeline. That way people could claim, "The devs didn't confirm the split", and say that as long as they didn't, there would be no split timeline.
Right now, most theorists say because a gaiden timeline hasn't been confirmed by the devs, there is none. Can you see why I don't care about that?
If you know that you didn't say that...then it isn't directed toward you. I was saying that because everyone here seems to have translations I haven't gotten to yet, so, please...
I felt addressed because in the last couple of days I've been the only one to post translations. We have other translators here, but they don't usually bring up new passages in the course of a debate like I did.
You don't have to be afraid of missing something, it either gets posted in my thread, or when I bring it up just like that, it's brand-new to everyone.
What about the TWW Sages? Their predecessors still wielded their powers.
I only remember they passed on their powers to their successors (something that likely only happens when the sage of the previous generation dies).
But Link is not meant to become a sage, so it should be a little different.
The Japanese word translated into "Sacrificed" denotes specifically to living beings who's lives are sacrificed, as opposed to sacrificing something like food or prayer beads or something.
In my opinion, the Maidens were said to be sacrificed because it added a lot of drama to the first half of the game (especially when we see Zelda herself sacrificed *SHOCK*). When Link entered the Dark World and it was revealed the Maidens were not in fact dead, but sealed inside crystals, then it allowed Link to continue his quest by rescuing the Maidens.
Is that not plausible?
Totally. When Link's finding out that they haven't died clears up what had been assumed before, the exact denotation of "sacrifice" is no hindrance anymore.
Edited by Jumbie, 16 May 2008 - 07:36 PM.