14 replies to this topic

[Alardonin]

i must warn you english is not my first language ok lets star
IW-Imprisoning War
SR-Sacred realm
GL-Golden Land
DW-Dark World
After visiting countless zelda sites,i came to see that most of the fans and many people have come to the thought or conclusion,that the IW happens during the seven dark years.

At the time i thought differently but after playing WW,my theory made even more sense to me.

I will put the reasons of why i think that the IW happened after the time of WW.I will put these reasons by number so that it will be more easy for you guys to counter my theory.keep in mind that in no way am i stating this as fact as i really cant then again when it comes to zelda who can .

1- As time changes the land of Hyrule,so does it´s names probably because of the loss of the lore or the simple passing of time...
Ganondorf was known in OOT as the King of Evil not the King of Thieves,hes name is Ganandor Dragmire also known as Ganon,but in LTTP manuel it is stated that at the time of the IW,when he steals the triforce he comes to be known as Mandrag Ganon wich in the ancient hylian tongue means Ganon of the enchanted thieves.Also in OOT it is known as the SR not the GL that would later be caled as the DW.


2-I believe the name Ganon of the enchanted thieves is refering to Ganon and it´s thieves skilled in the black arts and their involvement with the opening of the portal to the GL,that in my theory,could not have been opened any other way since the Pedestal of Time was already at the bottom of the waves.

No way in ocarina of time does it state the IW,altought there defenatly was a war or batle,but neither does it state ganondorfs murder of his comrades and him touching the triforce with blood stained hands or the deaths of the Ancient hylian Nights ,wich could be the nights that are in OOT,but i dont believe it to be,they do not make much enfasis on it at the time of the OOT it seems that in the manual the order and code of the Ancient Hylian Nights was legendary and very important yet nothing is stated in OOT,furthermore if the IW did happen in OOT,then the theory that the story continues in the future time line seems more correct.Note that even with that theory my time line also falls into place they all do but that depends acording to your own view of the legends.

3-Nothing is really presented,the protection of the sages by the Ancient Nights,fighting a huge hord suposedly created by Ganon so that it could stop the sages from imprisoning Ganon again.

this is how i see it Ganon goes to the sacred realm the sages grasp the portal that he and his folowers created,they do not let him get out,he orders the horde to strike to kill the sages,the hylian nights became extinct,at the last moment when they almost reach the sages they successfully shut the GL link to hyrule elemenating Ganons influencial power to its horde and then something happens to its army maybe they disaper or die i dont know.
There is no reference to the aparence of link and if this folous the future line there should be some reference as the heros story apears to have been known(begining of WW).
In OOT none of this happens.Ganon is imprisoned do to the envolvement of Link and Zelda and the sages and he only is emprisoned at the end of the game when he is defeated,in the IW however he stays imprisoned for most of the time

4-there is no reference to the book of Mudora or it´s know poem that is said to have caused massive problems in hyrule nothing like that happened or is told in OOT the poem(almost said massive damage )(that was arsh )

In a realm beyond sight,
The sky Shines gold,not blue.
There the Trifosce´s might
Makes mortal dreams como true

I could continue but it´s getting to long this is how i see it
Ganondorf gets the triforce in OOT they seperate,in WW he maneges to put it together again since he had the simbol on his hands he could have taken the wish withought worrying about the triforces separation.

Nohansen jumps on the scene,asks the wish praticly eleminating ganondorfs oportunity then this is where i believe that the triforce goes to the sacred realm,after that in forms the new hyrule since the pedestel was under the sea ganon opens a portal with his folowers in the new hyrule but since the triforce has reseted and the symbol was no longer on his hands it separates again i think e probably did not know of it.
sorry guys a little long hope you enjoy it,just trying to have some fun and for those that think that well this guy has a lot of time in his hands i guess that today i did but it wasnst really that hard .

[Jumbie]

Hi Alardonin. The topic you chose is one of the most debated things here. As far as I can judge it, you don't seem to have all the knowledge about it, though. Therefore I recommend you to take the time and read through this long article, which explains basically everything about where to place the Imprisoning War:

http://www.zeldalege...hp?n=article_26

[Alardonin]

hy Jumbie altought i didnt post the ultimate sense bacause its really hard i left some thew things out but thanks,ill defenatly take a look at that article thanks a lot!!.

[Alardonin]

thanks Jumbie very interisting read,i´m a great fan of that site but had not read that article,if indeed the creators said that it is then it is.
Im gona try my best with this,that was a very long read and im kinda tired, however i still have doughts and questions concerning the triforce,in WW folowing my theory if it does go back to the sacred realm whe could say that Link does catch it at the time of ALTTP but then how does the triforce translate to the legend of zelda and links adventure.
Indeed it is right that link has folowed the bloodline of the nights as is told in the prophecy of the great cataclysme but it does not state the time in which this blood line started,link does not necessarely need to folow this line to be the hero.but this line could have started in a later Imprisoning War and the prophecy might be refering to the links after the Imprisoning War or to the link in ALTTP.
Regarding the article about the master sword being created long before OOT this is part of my fan made story of that time puting it just into chapters.
oki now this is pure especulation i had created some imaginary chapters explaining what happened before the Fierce War it goes like this
1-the creation of hyrule
2-the ancient prophets that would prophecyse the coming of ganon(prophecy of the great cataclysm) and its powers would continue making an aperance in the future of the hylia royal familia mainly zelda the princess of destiny that posseses the sight
3-creation of the master sword and this is where my dought comes in in the article it says that it was the godesses that demanded the creation of the master sword i always thought that the reason for its creation would be because of the prophecy of the coming of ganon is it really proven in any way that the master sword was created because of the godesses comended them?
4-loss of the great magic
5-Fierce War
and apreaciate if you guys could help me on this especialy answering the question thanks.

[Reflectionist]

Imprisoning War - Sages trap Ganon in the Sacred Realm.
Ocarina of Time - Sages trap Ganon in the Sacred Realm.

Wow. I can Really see the inconsistencies there.

[Jumbie]

Alardonin: in the article it says that it was the godesses that demanded the creation of the master sword i always thought that the reason for its creation would be because of the prophecy of the coming of ganon is it really proven in any way that the master sword was created because of the godesses comended them?

No, it's not proven at all that it was the Goddesses. The advice to forge a Sword of Evil's Bane is described as a "divine oracle" in ALttP's Japanese manual, but this doesn't necessarily mean it really was the Three Goddesses. Maybe it rather was a vision that an earlier Princess Zelda had, or just a conclusion based on common sense that a weapon to defend the Triforce with should be created? Another theory is, the Minish people could have been involved with the creation of the Master Sword, since they originally came from a world beyond the Sacred Realm and are skilled forgers of "sacred blades".

[Fyxe]

Random crazy theory of craziness!!

The Four Sword IS the Master Sword.

...Nah, doesn't work. But it made you think for a moment.

[Alardonin]

yeah i guess that is mostly the only comparisen between the two so ill have to give you that Reflectionist,but you have too see that where that is the only comparisen the rest is mostly diferent.

I can see a legend being changed over time but changing every single thing except the actual imprisonment of Ganon because you must also see that link had a part in that imprisonment as well so arguably even that,since the legend seemed to be known in WW of course if you separate the legends in a two line theory that is another thing.Even if a future Imprisoning War is false is it really that far fetched.

Ganon goes to the Golden Land with his folowers then gets stuck in there because the sages do not let him get out he calls the hord untill the imprisonment,even the actions that revolve around the imprisonment are completely diferent except for the seven wisemen.False probably if not defenatly but far fetched i think not.

Thanks Jumbie for actually confirming it i also thought of those other theories considering the creation of the Blade of Evils Bane,but i still consider the Hylia the makers of it,since i believe that the master sword was forged in a time of a great magical age of the Hylia and then it was lost.

there are a lot of clues to that time,frases in ALTTP the long pointed ears that enabled them to hear special messages from the godesses from OOT wich i think were used at the time of the great magic,also some of the many magical items used by link in his adventures wich i beleive some were created at that time and the existence of the only hylia that retain most of the magic features of that time the hylia royal family like zelda,altought everything is just speculation

o and Fyxe once i believed that the four swords could just repel evil not the very power of the god´s wich only the master sword could of course in four sword adventure that didnt seem to be the case can anybody tell me if Ganon had the Triforce at the time of FSA.

[Hero of Slime]

We are not told that Ganon has the Triforce during FSA so I believe that he does not.

[Alardonin]

Thanks The Zol ive finished that game for some time now didnt really remember.

[Reflectionist]

yeah i guess that is mostly the only comparisen between the two so ill have to give you that Reflectionist,but you have too see that where that is the only comparisen the rest is mostly diferent.

The rest is game detail.

[MikePetersSucks]

Random crazy theory of craziness!!

The Four Sword IS the Master Sword.

...Nah, doesn't work. But it made you think for a moment.

I used to have a theory that the Master Sword and the Four Sword were made from the same original sword, only to be rejoined in the FS sidequest in LTTP.

[Jumbie]

This theory that Master Sword and Four Sword could be the same also flashed into my mind when I first saw TMC's intro. But of course, this theory would be very difficult to back up, to say the least. Then again, the developers did give some ambiguous hints that made us think of a connection. If the original Picori Blade really was the Master Sword, then TMC>FS+FSA would have to happen long after ALttP (and Oracles). But we also have the Four Sword Palace in ALttP for GBA, so at that point in time, they are definitely two separate swords. So, they're probably always two swords...

[Alardonin]

ok Reflectionist an acount of a later Imprisoning War may be just false but where you state two exemples arguably just one to prove that,i can state a whole lot more and even one that slightly eliminates the one that you state.im kind of going to do what you did up there ok lets see.
1.
Imprisoning War-sages trap ganon in the Golden Land

OOT-sages along with link in wich his presence was known in the ancient hylian scrolls in WW trap Ganon in the sacred realm

2.
IW-most of the caos at that time caused by the verse in the book of Mudora led to [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of problems,probably civil wars people began to fight for the triforce and it seems that at that time the knowledge of the triforce was wide among the hyruleans.

OOT-no problems were presented due to the ignorence of the people acording to the lore of the triforce.no acounts of fights of any kind among the people due to the triforce

3.
IW-it is said that Ganon opens the portel himself along with his folowers that were skilled in the black arts he kills them all and touches the golden power with his blood stained hands

OOT-link opens the portal to Ganon since at that time he did not have any knowledge of how to create one especially with his folowers skilled in the black arts withought them he could not have opened the portal in the IW there is no acount of such folowers nor their murder in ganondorfs hands.

4.

IW- Ganon is known at the time as Mandrag Ganon wich means Ganon of the enchanted thieves he is given this name due to the enchanted thieves skilled in the black arts that helps him open the portal

OOT-he is simply known as ganandorf later Ganon,and also king of evil the name could refer to Ganon of thieves do to his stealing of the triforce,but he is only know by such name in IW but that name does not only refer to his stealing of the triforce but also refers to his enchanted theives ergo the the name Ganon of the enchated thieves.

5.

IW-a huge horde responsible by the extinction of the Ancient hylian nights

OOT-no acount of any huge horde or any estinction of any nights

6.

IW-for the hole time he remains inside the golden land

OOT-at this time he does only reside for a very small time in the sacred realm

i can see this not being correct but where you see some wrong translation of the story in the future how can you know for certain that the happenings of the Imprisoning War were not recorded at the time as it happened or some time after it happened before it became a legend,this info then would be maintained into a future time as time may translate or slightly change a story or legend,there is a possibility of what is acounted in the imprisoning war is a translation of something writhen at that time

at the begining of ALTTP it says "a long time ago" but that is only refering to the triforce and its creation since the triforce story is far older from the IW and is referred as a legend but if you notice the rest of the text it is not refered as a legend until the end.

"but when this events became obscure by the myst of time and become legend".

this does not in any way say that the events that they explained did not happen,but when it explains the events it seems they were referred to a time before those became legend ergo a time where the lore could not be fooled with.

I can also see names being changed because of bad translations of past to future.
But i can also see them being changed do to the passing of time himself example.
1
sacred realm and evil realm(OOT)
dark realm(WW)
golden land and dark world(IW and ALTTP)
2
master sword(OOT)
blade of evils bane along with master sword(WW and imprisoning war)
master sword(ALTTP)
magical sword(LOZ)
3.
king of evil(OOT)
emperor of the dark realm(WW)
Mandrag Ganon(ALTTP)
Prince of darkness(LOZ)

[LionHarted]

1. Imprisoning War-sages trap ganon in the Golden Land

OOT-sages along with link in wich his presence was known in the ancient hylian scrolls in WW trap Ganon in the sacred realm

TWW backstory--a hero alone seals Ganon away, wielding the blade of evil's bane. Yes, let's use a lack of mentioning of an event as proof of its nonexistence. Or, how about we don't?

2. IW-most of the caos at that time caused by the verse in the book of Mudora led to [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of problems,probably civil wars people began to fight for the triforce and it seems that at that time the knowledge of the triforce was wide among the hyruleans.

OOT-no problems were presented due to the ignorence of the people acording to the lore of the triforce.no acounts of fights of any kind among the people due to the triforce

*cough*Deku Tree: "There was a fierce war in our world."*cough*

3. IW-it is said that Ganon opens the portel himself along with his folowers that were skilled in the black arts he kills them all and touches the golden power with his blood stained hands

OOT-link opens the portal to Ganon since at that time he did not have any knowledge of how to create one especially with his folowers skilled in the black arts withought them he could not have opened the portal in the IW there is no acount of such folowers nor their murder in ganondorfs hands.

It is said that Ganon accidentally opened the door to the Realm--which, by the way, is probably not true. He was undoubtedly searching for the entrance, so opening it would have been no accident. Now, then, had someone inadvertently given him access to said door, that would be an accident. There are also hints at the presence of Gerudo in Hyrule Castle at the time that Ganondorf pursues Zelda.

4. IW- Ganon is known at the time as Mandrag Ganon wich means Ganon of the enchanted thieves he is given this name due to the enchanted thieves skilled in the black arts that helps him open the portal

Nowhere is this information found in the Japanese version of the game. I can only presume that NoA pulled it out of their rear ends.

5. IW-a huge horde responsible by the extinction of the Ancient hylian nights

OOT-no acount of any huge horde or any estinction of any nights

But there is account of a surrender, which means that there was probably a battle, in which the Knights of Hyrule probably fought. And were probably massacred.

6. IW-for the hole time he remains inside the golden land

OOT-at this time he does only reside for a very small time in the sacred realm

Nowhere in the IW myth does it say exactly what Ganon himself does after taking the Triforce. It does say that his "malice" attacks the royal palace.

golden land and dark world(IW and ALTTP)

The term "Golden Power" is only used in TWW and ALttP. Did you know that?

blade of evils bane along with master sword(WW and imprisoning war)

It's called this in OoT, too.