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#1 Mystic Kitsune

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 09:31 AM

Yeah, this is an article someone wrote on IGN that i thought would be nice to discuss,

Wind Waker Explanation
By ShadowCattivi
http://users.ign.com...ivvi?boards=ign

Posted at
http://boards.ign.co...09597834/p1/?23

I posted a big thread on the Zelda board about a year ago saying that I considered TWW the most mature game of the series. Inside it, I made a big section detailing my thoughts on the ending, so here it is...

"...So what exactly is mature about all this? I think this sort of immersion is just good storytelling, truthfully, as the deep stuff kicks in later.

Ganondorf's motive is different this time around. In all previous Zeldas, he was after the Triforce so he could rule over Hyrule like a god, and basically destroy it (as evidenced by the ruins of Hyrule Castle/Town in OoT). In Wind Waker, instead of trying to destroy Hyrule, he wants to bring back the old land. What I find interesting here is the role-reversal. We learn that to protect Hyrule, the gods essentially flooded it, and instead of wanting to destroy it, Ganondorf would like it to resurface. I've heard complaints from people about the ending that Hyrule stayed flooded when they wanted it to return.

When was the last time you sided with Ganondorf in a game?

TWW depicted the villain as almost sympathetic. Instead of wishing to kick his butt OoT-style, the player may feel a little confused pre-battle. Here we expected a monologue on how the world would soon be his, and instead got a retelling of how he coveted the peace of Hyrule all along?

My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose. It can only be called fate. ...That here. I would again gather the three with the crests. ...That I should lay my hand on that which grants the wishes of the beholder... That when power, wisdom, and courage come together, the gods would have no choice but to come down... The power of the gods... The Triforce! He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted! Already, the crest of wisdom is mine... All that remains...

...and now it's revealed why they need to battle atop the tower. Link is fighting for the idea of forgetting the past, and Ganondorf is fighting for bringing back the world of OoT (like what many fans are clamoring for ). That world is gone, sunk into the sea, and the King knows it. He, like Ganondorf, was bound to Hyrule...so both the "good" and "bad" guys weren't so different.

The issue explored in Wind Waker is not black-and-white like the other games in the series. It raises the point about letting go of the past: King Daphnes wishes for Hyrule to remain buried in the sea, while Ganondorf wants to see its return to he can rule it again. So instead of reviving the old land, the game ends with Link and Tetra setting off in search of something new. A metaphor for the state of the series, perhaps? Well, maybe not, but it's an interesting idea regardless.

And then there's the fate theme. Ganondorf is destined to fight Link throughout these games, and after his entire plan falls apart (when the King uses Ganondorf's wish), he laughs maniacally. His whole scheme has failed, right before his eyes, and there's nothing left to do but have a last-ditch battle with the Hero. Listen to his dialogue, he almost sounds tired of the whole thing. The "accept your fate" idea is pretty common throughout the game: Tetra grows to accept her fate as the descendant of Princess Zelda, and King Hyrule has to accept that the past is gone (which is why he refuses Link's invitation to the surface at the end).

My children... Listen to me. I have lived regretting the past. And I have faced those regrets. If only I could do things over again... Not a day of my life has gone by without my thoughts turning to my kingdom of old. I have lived bound to Hyrule. In that sense, I was the same as Ganondorf. But you... I want you to live for the future. There may be nothing left for you... But despite that, you must look forward and walk a path of hope, trusting that it will sustain you when darkness comes. Farewell... This is the only world that your ancestors were able to leave you. Please... forgive us."


So that's how I interpret the ending. As for what happened to Hyrule, it's definitely sunk into the sea forever. The whole point of the ending was about letting go of the past, and if they dug up Old Hyrule in a later game, that point would be trivialized. Nope, the ending implies that the later Hyrule kingdom (such as LttP's) is the land that Tetra and Link II sail off to find at the end of TWW.


So yeah, hes implying LttP comes afterward, which i placed TWW last on my storyline count. So this article confused me, but i know some of you people also put LttP afterwards, so dont flame me or anything.

Edited by Mystic Kitsune, 10 February 2006 - 09:35 AM.


#2 Guest_cheesedude_*

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 03:37 PM

I agree that the other games taking place in a "New Hyrule" makes the most sense.......but the fact the aLttP and OoT maps are actually quite similiar (davogones has a map comparison article somewhere) makes me hesitant to implement it in my timeline.......... :deadlink:

I also happen to think the the two large pillars of rock inside Death Mountain Crater in OoT are Spectactle Rock and the volcano eventually hollows out by the times of aLttP and LoZ, again check davo's article.......

#3 HarryHatMan

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 03:58 PM

Yeah, nice article generally, even if you where just using it for that last section.

I know the geography arguments for aLttP's placement are quite solid, but I feel it 'fits' the series better with it being placed after tWW. I know that's very opinionated, but most of what we use is simply conjecture, with just the small problems being ignored.

If you are simply looking at the larger land masses, it makes sense, but it cannot be taken as fact due to the small, but still apparent flaws, such as the MS's placement as well as the movement of the lost woods and Kak. Both options are equally 'up for grabs' in this sense, but for me, other facts seem to push me towards a post tWW alTTp.

#4 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 06:35 PM

Split Timelines are a blessing. And that's a great article.

#5 Mystic Kitsune

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 10:46 PM

Hmm yeah, so i would go with the split timelines, i guess its impossible to get them all in a single, eh?

The only official thing i know is that TP is between OoT and TWW according to the Nintendo magazine of...what was it? July last year...or august, but one of them placed it there.

Anyways, i still stand by TWW being last, but i think ill go on to make a split rather than single.

#6 Showsni

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 09:09 AM

The ending implies that Hyrule is gone forever. And they don't find a new one either. Even if they did, it wouldn't be Hyrule.

And split timelines are stupid... ;)

#7 Mystic Kitsune

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 11:42 AM

Yeah showsni, your timeline is like mine originally was, but you see the aLttp placement confused me in the article. -_-

Why are they stupid? Its not like the designers were thinking of the timeline at first till fans started killing eachother for it ;) XD

#8 Vazor

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 12:34 PM

I say that Link, Tetra, and their descendents search for a few generations to find their "New Hyrule" when they arrive back where Old Hyrule was. Of course, the OoT-era Hyrule would have to be buried at infinite depths, but as the Great Deku Tree said in TWW, someday the islands would merge into one greater land. That way, it allows both for the similar geography of later games and the preservation of the theme of starting anew. It is a New Hyrule, just on top of the old one.

#9 Hero of Slime

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 03:56 PM

For a while I used split timelines in order to explain hyrule. The Major flaw of all Hyrule restoration theories is how a lot of the places have the same names both before and after the flood (Death Mountain, Lost Woods, Lake Hylia). Now I just use the theory that Hyrule is completly restored to the way it was before the flood and the place names are determined by pre flood artifacts.

#10 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 04:22 PM

If Split Timelines are good enough for Chrono Cross, they're good enough for Zelda.

#11 Chaltab

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:43 PM

Very good analaysis of the ending. Even though it angered me at first that Hyrule was destroyed, WW is still my favorite ending for a Zelda game, because it's the least black and white of them all.

I had always assumed that, given a single timeline, ALttP took place after TWW anyway.

Edited by Chaltab, 12 February 2006 - 10:00 PM.


#12 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 04:31 PM

It all comes back to ALttP's backstory, for me. To them, the old Hyrule is this place evidenced only by ruins, and full of ancient archaeological treasures.. You don't lose track of how your country used to be, unless you aren't the descendants of the people that lived there.. and you moved in later.. It makes a lot of sense that they wanted to find a new Hyrule, and at first they thought they did, but over time it became clear this was the old one, cuz there were ruins n stuff.. and the water just.. drained.. by then, though, they probably forgot (or never knew, for most people?) that they were already the descendants of the original Hylians..




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