29 replies to this topic

[mohammedali]

The Hylian text translated from the pictures tells us the following about what happened to OoT Link before the flood:

"Though the people waited eagerly for the hero of the Legend to once again appear, the hero had put the country behind him, and journeyed into the flows of time, and never appeared."

There are 2 theories on this. One that Link went back in time (as shown in OoT ending), and started a new timeline (as suggested by the creators). The other is that it's a reference to MM.

I personally think it's the former, i.e. it's refering to a split timeline, as that would make more sense given the 'folds of time' line. Alternatively, if it's about MM, then what link going to Termina have journeying into the 'folds of time'? As far as we are aware, Link goes to another 'universe' but not another time. Thoughts?

Mohammed Ali

[SOAP]

This has already been discussed.







And I think you were there during that discussion. o.O

[mohammedali]

This has already been discussed.







And I think you were there during that discussion. o.O

Hmmm... So what was the outcome? Which thread was it in? (I must have forgot this topic being discussed somehow).

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

Just like many of the other debates in these forums everyone made their own inferences from that line and nothing was really resolved--not that we could--only Nintendo can make this clear.

[SOAP]

Yeah. Someone translated the Hylian text in the TWW intro and theories started flying but nothing was really resolved, as Tri said. That's the same with most of the topics here. Though, I think the reason nothing gets resolved isn't cos of lack of clarity as much as it is people getting bored with a new thing really fast. We Storyliners have the shortest attention spans. Ever.

And I do remember you being in that discussion Ali. I'm not sure though. I think I was too busy flirting with Fyxe at the time or something. XD

[Showsni]

You don't see flows of time in Majora's Mask? Even when he's constantly going back three days in time?

In any case, the legend at the start of TWW has been distorted slightly. They believe that the Hero of Time is some mythical being who jumps to wherever he's needed in time - as we actually see in OoT, this isn't the case. To them it appeared as if OoT adult Link came out of nowhere, and left the same way...

Anyway, here's a thread pertaining to the subject: http://forums.legend...read.php?t=3006
Nope, mohammedali missed it.

That has Beno's tranlation as opposed to Zethar's, though. Beno translates that line as : "but since he traveled the stream of time and left the country behind, he did not appear."

[garsh]

I have a question. If Link really created a split in the timeline and "vanished" from the continuing timeline at the end of Ocarina of Time, how is there a legend about him to be remembered? Who's seeing past the veil of split time?


I'm pretty sure this has been at least partly addressed before, but considering that translation I'm unclear all over again.

Thinking back it's hard to envision how things would have been percieved by the people of Hyrule. I mean, if he really split the timeline, doesn't that mean it was as if Ganon never took power, and as if there was never an adult Link to begin with? I mean, he essentially erased everything that happened, didn't he?

Or is that more consistent with a single timeline theory?

Well that turned out to be several questions, didn't it? And another one.

[mohammedali]

You don't see flows of time in Majora's Mask? Even when he's constantly going back three days in time?

The quote is talking about Link leaving Hyrule by journying into the flows of time. Any time travel in MM comes after he's already left Hyrule (i.e. in timetravel is occurs *in* Termina rather than the way he got *to* Termina), so it can't be a reference to that.

In any case, the legend at the start of TWW has been distorted slightly. They believe that the Hero of Time is some mythical being who jumps to wherever he's needed in time - as we actually see in OoT, this isn't the case. To them it appeared as if OoT adult Link came out of nowhere, and left the same way...

If that's the case then that confirms my theory that the Hylian people believed that all (or at least many of) the Links were one person, and hence the HoT is a reference to more than just OoT Link.

Anyway, here's a thread pertaining to the subject: http://forums.legend...read.php?t=3006
Nope, mohammedali missed it.

No wonder I don't remember it

That has Beno's tranlation as opposed to Zethar's, though. Beno translates that line as : "but since he traveled the stream of time and left the country behind, he did not appear."

It infers the same thing so that's cool. Anyway, looks more and more like a suggestion to a split to me.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

(Garsh) I have a question. If Link really created a split in the timeline and "vanished" from the continuing timeline at the end of Ocarina of Time, how is there a legend about him to be remembered? Who's seeing past the veil of split time?

Well the future that Link leaves behind supposedly continues on--so in this continuing timeline the Hero of Time, sages and the battle with Ganon are remembered. Now, the timeline that Link returns to as a child will have it's own continuation as well, the only excepton is that Ganon does not rule for 7 years. However, there is even division amongst people who believe in the split timeline. Some believe Ganon is still around when Link returns for the final time as a child, some think Ganon is not around--using some excuse that the seal placed in the future transcends time. I think this issue exist amongst single timeliners as well.

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by Tri-Enforcer
Some believe Ganon is still around when Link returns for the final time as a child, some think Ganon is not around--using some excuse that the seal placed in the future transcends time. I think this issue exist amongst single timeliners as well.

The Seal cast on Ganon does not transcend time. Everytime Link returns seven years, he doesn't return at the exact moment he pulled the MS out of the PoT for the first time. Why? Because that would mean everytime he returned, Ganondorf would be waiting to break into the SR, the BoTW would have to be opened everytime and Nabooru would be safe because Link haden't been to the ST. For example, Link pulls the MS out of the PoT at 12:00pm, spends an hour in the future then returns. What time would it be in the past? 1:00pm. That would mean Ganondorf would have already been in the SR for an hour and caused the Triforce to split resulting in Young Link having the ToC. The problem really occurs in MM as Young Zelda somehow has the Ocarina of Time in her possession.

OMG! Link takes the ToC, from the future, with him when Princess Zelda send him back in time. When Link returns, this creates two ToC's. Link goes to Termina and the ToC splits into eight shards. These shards are collected by the Hero of Winds in TWW. Ganondorf makes a wish on the whole Triforce and it splits however it cannot go to Link because this time he is in Termina. Wisdom then can't then go to Zelda and Power can't then go to Ganondorf. So like Dragon Balls, the three pieces travel in different directions meaning Ganondorf has to search for them again. The wish he makes creates Dark World. Now that the future has changed dramatically, TWW breaks off to create one timeline and MM breaks off to create another timeline. Please, someone, tell me that I haven't figured it out!

[coinilius]

The silly thing with that Zelda Box translation of the Hylian Scrolls is that, the scrolls (in both Beno and Zethar's translations) refer to the Link putting the country behind him and travelling the flows/streams of time, being suggestive of a split timeline type deal... yet the comments that accompany it suggest that it was a reference to Majoara's Mask.

Personally, I still think that they might have just decided to sit on a fence a little with the details, suggesting both a split and single timeline, so that they could be free to potentially change there mind depending on what direction they ended up wanting to take.

[Showsni]

OMG! Link takes the ToC, from the future, with him when Princess Zelda send him back in time. When Link returns, this creates two ToC's. Link goes to Termina and the ToC splits into eight shards. These shards are collected by the Hero of Winds in TWW. Ganondorf makes a wish on the whole Triforce and it splits however it cannot go to Link because this time he is in Termina. Wisdom then can't then go to Zelda and Power can't then go to Ganondorf. So like Dragon Balls, the three pieces travel in different directions meaning Ganondorf has to search for them again. The wish he makes creates Dark World. Now that the future has changed dramatically, TWW breaks off to create one timeline and MM breaks off to create another timeline. Please, someone, tell me that I haven't figured it out!

Something can't be in two different places at the same time. That contravenes the fact that e/m is constant.

[Doopliss]

Thinking back it's hard to envision how things would have been percieved by the people of Hyrule. I mean, if he really split the timeline, doesn't that mean it was as if Ganon never took power, and as if there was never an adult Link to begin with? I mean, he essentially erased everything that happened, didn't he?

Or is that more consistent with a single timeline theory?

Well that turned out to be several questions, didn't it? And another one.

See it this way, maybe it'll be clearer: Link is sent back in time, so at this times a split timeline is created, so that leaves us with two timelines: the one in which everything continues as if OoT had happened, and the new one, which is exactly the same as the old one but in which nothing that happened in the old after the time Zelda sent Link back has happened. It's like Chrono Trigger.

[Vazor]

Something can't be in two different places at the same time. That contravenes the fact that e/m is constant.

Suppose for a moment you had traveled back in time with a walkman; however, the past you has the same walkman at an earlier point in its (and your) life. The two walkmen are the same object and occupy different places. The same applies to the ToC. The best explanation of this concept can be found here.

[Doopliss]

Oh, my, crazy idea: What if, Link travels to live his childhood, and at the same time, a new timeline is created and the Triforce of Courage of each timeline switch places reciprocally, so that Link has the old timeline Triforce with him and the new timeline one goes to the old timeline one?

[SOAP]

someone tell me how you can translate hylian text... I didn't know this was possible! It's a revolation

We're Hylian. Duh.

[spunky-monkey]

This is easy to explain guys.

After Link defeats Ganon in OoT, Zelda says there will be peace in this Hyrule for a time and sends him back to his original time and age. Thus the roads between times will be closed. Link vanished from Adult-timeline, Ganon vanished from Child-timeline and so did the Triforce itself. Link's Triforce of Courage shattered when he left.

Link (as a child again) emerged into a Hyrule where Ganon was stopped before he even started. He decides to search for his lost friend Navi and he leaves Hyrule altogether with Epona and stumbles upon Termina (see Majora's Mask). After saving Termina from Majora he leaves with Epona to find Navi again, we know no more of him after that.

Twilight Princess may be that very same Link, but we won't know until we get a copy next year.

[MikePetersSucks]

Uh. He went back to his own time >_> Enough said.

[Showsni]

Suppose for a moment you had traveled back in time with a walkman; however, the past you has the same walkman at an earlier point in its (and your) life. The two walkmen are the same object and occupy different places. The same applies to the ToC. The best explanation of this concept can be found here.

It's impossible for time travel to work in that way. The total energy divided by the total mass is always a constant ratio.
The only way time travel can really work is to rearrange everything in the universe to where it was at a previous time, except for your own atoms - then those atoms won't be where they originally were in the new present, which is very like the past, because they are still in you.
Or else the spirit travel method, which is basically just a normal time flow with Link's consciousness/memory appearing to rewrite itself every time he travels through time.

[garsh]

^ Not to mention I'm not even convinced Link can bring things with him like that. He manages to keep some things as an adult that he collects as a child, but I can't remember any examples of him bringing anything back the other way.

Like Showsni was implying, in Ocarina of Time, the time travel wasn't even actual time travel as we usually think of it. Link never physically shifted times in such a way that he could run into himself in another moment, for instance. It was more like a kind of spiritual time travel. Link's awareness was just dormant for 7 years while his body was sealed away from the world, and could be switched back forth from his two ages after that point.

[spunky-monkey]

Time travel doesn't work that way (even if it was possible) but in Zelda somehow the timelines remain intact.

One Hyrule...two different times...

Obviously when changes were made to the past, the future was not erased but carried on existing as normal and the past continued to exist too...umm...the timeline didn't correct itself for...some...stupid...reason.

I blame Nintendo for this mess.

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by garsh
He manages to keep some things as an adult that he collects as a child, but I can't remember any examples of him bringing anything back the other way.

In that case Young Link would still be in possession of the Ocarina of Time as he would only be switching between his Child and Adult forms. However the ToC would be split into eight shards and would have to reform to properly fit with ALttP.

What would it look like to someone standing outside the DoT? Maybe they would see Young Link draw the MS, a blue light surround him and then he stays frozen for however long it takes for him to do what he has to do in the future. Then they would see him return the MS to the PoT and the blue light would fade.

[Showsni]

They wouldn't see him in the ToT, because he's in the SR whilst he's "frozen." They might see a portal to the SR where he was - there must be one, since we know Ganondorf used it. But this begs the question, where is the portal whilst Link's an adult? Since the Master Sword isn't in the pedestal, it ought to still be open.

[MikePetersSucks]

Actually, he left his own timeline. When Link first entered the Temple of Time, he slept there for seven years, so he didn't directly go forward in time, he went forward in time normally. So the future is his own time.

His own time as in "The time period he's supposed to be in, which is the seven years he lost and deserves to spend however he wishes."

[Neon Z]

Sorry if this has been asked, but how the hell did someone translate HYLIAN text? It's a made up language for cryin out loud. But anyway, I'm not complaining because this does help the double timeline theory. For those of you who choose to ignore the Aonuma quote where he says that there are two timelines, and no, I'm not talking about the interview before TWW's release. This one is from October.

Hylian is just Japanese with different characters.

[SOAP]

I believe the japanese version of the game came with translaion booklets or something.

[mohammedali]

Yeah. There's also an english version some fans did, but it doesn't help at all as you need to know Japanese to translate the sounds you just worked out into English.

Mohammed Ali