34 replies to this topic

[Alakhriveion]

Well, what does everyone think of Putin's new policy? A little Stalinist for my taste. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, the ex-KGB agent has cracked down on democracy, ending Duma elections, and making half of all more local officials appionted instead of elected.

Thank GOD we in the US aren't ruled by a madman who uses terrorism as an excuse for insane, abusive policies.

[Hero of Winds]

I refuse to comment on the chance that LA will be lost again.

Anyways, do you have a link to Putin's new policy? I'd like to read it for myself, before making a judgement call.

[Alakhriveion]

I have a link to the BBC's analysis, which is as good as the real thing, which you can't read, because dictators usually aren't good on the whole "Freedom of Information" thing.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ope/3653084.stm

[Alistia]

Putin is Far from a dictator, Alak.

I agree with his policy to appoint several positions instead of having them all be elected. Elections aren't infallibe. The U.S.A. proves that.


He's not picking his successor, or anything. And! Even the U.S. president appoints people in positions. We don't vote Chief of Homeland Security. We don't vote in Chief of the CIA. None of that.


Putin's policy is allowing their government to closely resemble our own. I personally think it's a bad thing, but it may not be, and I can't state as fact that it is or isn't. If this is what Putin feels Russia needs in order to overcome their recent attack (And Russia is subject to "terrorism" far more than the U.S., so let's cut them a little slack if they go impatient.), then I say go for it. Putin's replies following the Beslan massacre instilled a sense of hope and perserverence in me, and I don't even live in Russia!


He's always criticized and painted as evil, but tell me, what Leader of a struggling nation isn't? Putin was elected, so let him run his term.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

And he's loved by the people of Russia.

One person tried to name a breed of tomato after him. There's cafés named after him. Some people have his image plastered on their counters or hung on their walls in a Stalin/Hitler-fashion (and Putin's not even forcing them to do that either!)

It is a strange development, but Russia has never had much like with democracy. The anarachists that blew up Tsar Nicholas II killed him before he could bring in sweeping democratic reforms to the Duma and let's not forget the Soviet Government.

[Alakhriveion]

Yeah, he was elected. Because he BANNED competitors from running!

[Alistia]

And if we could have banned George W. Bush from running, the U.S.A. would be much better as well.


Russia deals with a lot more shit than the U.S. does. You can't expect them to just say "let's all emulate america, we'll be so much better."

Also, I find no reason why any country should readily turn over every bit of information to us. It's only our business if they want us to know. That whole "freedom of information" chatter is just something to hold against places who are run differently. We always clamor we have free media here, but tell me that Bush had 0 control over the media, and I'll tell you you're a fool.


Again, I re-iterate. Russia is Russia. Not America. If Putin responds to terrorism by appointing positions instead of letting them be elected... what's a fuck of a lot better than bombing the shit out of innocent countries in retribution, ne?

[Alakhriveion]

No, it's not. Good is good, bad is bad. There's no more or less bad, just bad.

[Alistia]

How is it bad?

[Alakhriveion]

Democracy=good.

That's really a matter of opinion, I guess.

[Alistia]

Indeed it is.

[Korhend]

Tell that to Yugoslovia!
Dictator (tito): Lets work to rebuild our country
Democratically elected official (Milosovich): Lets engage in ethnic cleansing!
I'll be the first to admit systems dont necessarily work in every nation. But look at russian history, dictatorships are the natural state of Russia!

[Ogmios22188]

I don't agree with Putin's decision at all. If the Russians really want to end terrorism, they'll grant sovereignty to the non-Russian states in the Russian Federation and allow them to govern themselves.

[Alakhriveion]

Originally posted by Big O@Sep 14 2004, 06:24 PM
Tell that to Yugoslovia!
Dictator (tito): Lets work to rebuild our country
Democratically elected official (Milosovich): Lets engage in ethnic cleansing!
I'll be the first to admit systems dont necessarily work in every nation. But look at russian history, dictatorships are the natural state of Russia!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't say the good guys would always get elected. Hitler was duely elected. But having a chance to pick your own leaders is better than having them imposed on you.

[SteveT]

Depends who does the imposing.

[Alakhriveion]

Well, good leaders vs. bad leaders is a seperate issue from elected leaders vs. selected leaders, but people who're willing to take over and rule alone usually aren't nice to their people, knamean?

[Korhend]

And the point is that when the people can not choose a good leader (I.E. Germany, or modern Iraq) its better to have a good leader imposed upon them.

[Ogmios22188]

I disagree. Better to let them choose, for better or worse. And who says that Germans during the '30s were incapable of choosing a good leader? Hitler certainly WAS a good leader, though things he did were bad. He's probably one of the greatest leaders there ever was, if you're basing leadership on ability to lead. And what makes you think modern Iraqis are incapable of choosing "good" leaders? They should choose leaders who are good for them, who also may not be good for us. However, it's their nation, and they should look out for their own interests; at least until they are situated in a position such that they can begin to become involved in other nations' affairs and not be hypocrites at the same time, something the US hasn't gotten down yet.

[Alakhriveion]

Originally posted by Big O@Sep 14 2004, 08:24 PM
And the point is that when the people can not choose a good leader (I.E. Germany, or modern Iraq) its better to have a good leader imposed upon them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really. What comes after the appiontee?

[Korhend]

Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 14 2004, 08:36 PM
Not really.  What comes after the appiontee?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if the country is ready democrazation shall occur as it did in Portugal and Spain. If not, another apointee.

[Alakhriveion]

Sounds too dangerous to me. What about a compromise, a democracy with a permenant check, like Star Wars?

[Korhend]

I'm not saying that its not dangerous but it is the best option for a lot of countries.

[Alakhriveion]

Regardless, it's immoral.

[Korhend]

and a murderous democratic leader isn't? Besides a lot of people like living under dictatorships. Aparrantly the chinese and russians.

[Alakhriveion]

I didn't say anything about the nature of the leader. The fact is that one method of selection is moral, the other isn't. What becomes of it has no bearing whatever on this.

[SteveT]

No matter how the leader comes to power, his job is still to subjugate the masses.

[Alakhriveion]

No, it isn't. Government is a vessel for the betterment of society, and the protection of it's people. Any government that seeks to rule has strayed from the whole purpose of the institution, and needs to be eliminated.

[Korhend]

Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 15 2004, 09:57 AM
I didn't say anything about the nature of the leader.  The fact is that one method of selection is moral, the other isn't.   What becomes of it has no bearing whatever on this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh but it does! Because if the elections are not from a worthy mass they are a corrupted election. Is trial by biased jury a trial?

[Alakhriveion]

You do realise that by "democracy" I'm including free, good public education, communalism, and all the other leftie stuff? The USA, for example, has no democracy.

[Korhend]

Of course, but those things have yet to happen. So every leader in history is immoral Alak?