35 replies to this topic

[TSA]

OoT -> MM -> TWW -> ALttP -> LA -> LoZ -> AoL -> OoS/OoA -> TMC -> FS DS -> FS -> FSA

Reasons:

I've countlessly explained my OoT -> TWW theory, how TWW refers to Majora's Mask, and both Young and Adult Link time periods. I've already explained and many of us already agree why LA is after ALttP. LoZ is after AoL, too. Now...why did I put LoZ/AoL before Oracles?

Well, I believe the Triforce came into Hyrule in those two games. You see...I believe Ganon was obliterated and weakened severely with his defeat in ALttP. I think he comes back in The Legend of Zelda and has to remain hidden underground due to his weakened state, and relies more heavily on the Triforce of Power he stole. He dies in The Legend of Zelda. You see his ashes. He's toast. In AoL, the Triforce is united by Link in Hyrule...IN HYRULE.

Oracles has the Triforce unified...IN HYRULE.

Now...why do I put the FS games and Oracles at the end? Well, in Oracles, besides the damn Triforce being unified in Hyrule, Zelda doesn't know Link. I tried that formality issue...but it just doesn't fly. This would explain how Link and Zelda don't know each other...

Also, TMC has the Oracles...and by their english descriptions, they appear to be closely related to the Oracle games. Also, TMC introduces the FOUR SWORD. The Master Sword "sleeps forever" in ALttP. In LoZ, it's the Wood, White, Magical Sword. Oracles has the Master Sword as a BONUS, it is not an actual storyline item.

In TMC...you have White and Magical Swords...before...ta-da...The Four Sword. Having all the FS games after the Master Sword games helps the issue of two all-powerful blades. Hell, The Master Sword could be the Four Sword, but broken in the intro and reforged into the Four Sword.

But you guys will say "Oh TSA, TMC speaks of how Link got his hat, why rupees are under bushes, why Armos were built".

Yeah...it does...it says in ANCIENT TIMES...by Minish long ago - the Minish even self reference themselves as not being the same as the ancient minish. It quite frankly appears like all the described origins are from ancient times...not actually in TMC. As for Link's hat...oh wow...go fucking play The Wind Waker. OMG, Link has no hat in the start.

Ok TSA - we have a big issue! Hyrulean Adventure's world! It's so much like OoT/ALttP's world. And GANON! He's Ganondorf the Gerudo, and a monster! WHAT IS UP WITH THAT!?!?!?

Let's review a few things. Ganon has a trident in ALttP - we don't know how he got it, we just know he has had the power of some Triforce part or the entire thing before. His power could possibly NOT be from that Trident. In Oracles, the revived "shell" had that Trident...

Hmm...maybe that Trident in HA...is the relic of the GANON who was defeated long ago and hasn't been around in TMC or FS? And if I recall...if Ganon is dead after LoZ...they are trying to revive Ganon, right? Said so in AoL. They tried in Oracles. What if he was successfully revived as a Gerudo...

Notice how the Gerudo state Ganondorf just goes for the Trident, disobeying Gerudo Law? Hmm...how does he know the Trident grants power? And the inscription...the lines about the Trident...and Zelda's remark about Ganon at the end...an ancient evil reborn...

About the only thing I find wrong is that the world looks so much like OoT/ALttP. But wait..the landscape actually...isn't perfectly ALttP or OoT's Hyrule. In fact...the landscape of HA's Hyrule is very much like TMC's Hyrule. Veil Springs/Lake Hylia in TMC match up with HA's Lake Hylia area. Death Mountain is where Mount Crenel is. Castor Wilds...well...um...is like Enter the Fields of HA...although that is south of the Castle in HA...but you never know. Minish Forest and Deepwood Shrine? Eastern Palace area...

I mean...I know the popular theory is TMC is before OoT...that Mount Crenel is just another mountain range, that Death Mountain is somewhere there. That Castor Wilds becomes the new Lake Hylia, and the old Lake Hylia/Veil springs becomes Zora's Domain. And that Minish Forest becomes Kokiri Forest.

But...this whole issue with the Light Force...and Zelda having it...and the Triforce only being mentioned quite conspicuously here and there...it just to me seems like it's so radically a departure from other games. Plus, in TMC - Gorons are rare...they used to live in Mount Crenel...but now only live in a cave. This also lends to the idea that they dispersed to other lands...like Holodrum and Labyrnna. Also, NO ZORAS IN TMC. Hmm...interesting, no? Just like no Zora's in TWW...and Zoras are in Labyrnna in OoA...maybe they dispersed as well? And even though names are NOT enough to go on...most of TMC's cast is former TWW cast...

I just have a hard time with any game coming before OoT especially when it has ties to the Triforce and Ganon. TMC has ties to the "light force" and images of a "Triforce"...as well as a "great evil" attacking Hyrule.

[Trinbadman]

TSA, you are a genius. I agree with everything there.

As for the maps I found a way to connect HA's map to AOL's handdrawn map in the manuel. Once I find a good picture host, I'll post em up.

http://www.photobucket.com

Post it!!!! *Shakes fist*

[Trinbadman]

Uhm....Where does TMC mention why Rupee's are kept under bushes? I must of missed that...:s:

[Tri-Enforcer]

(TSA)
OoT -> MM -> TWW -> ALttP -> LA -> LoZ -> AoL -> OoS/OoA -> TMC -> FS DS -> FS -> FSA

LoZ is after AoL, too.

Is that a typo--it doesn't look that way on your timeline?

[img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] must of happened between TWW and ALTTP. Going by your timeline, how does Ganon go from being impaled by the MS thousands of feet under the sea and petrified--to sitting up in the Dark World with the unified Triforce at the start of LTTP? You could say IW happened inbetween the two games, but aren't you a subscriber of the IW being OOT? And isn't the IW suppose to be the 1st time Ganon touched or threatened the Triforce?
The reason people say the TMC is when Link 1st starts wearing a green cap isn't just becuz that's how he starts off at the beginning, but also because the Hero of Man in the TMC backstory is depicted with no green cap.

Not too shabby though.

[MikePetersSucks]

Woah, this is a GREAT discovery, Although I still go by the FS saga being before OOT, I wouldn't be dissapointed if Nintendo revealed this series as the ultimate truth-ness! You totally flipflopped the entire board with this thread! TSA has done it AGAIN! XD

[Trinbadman]

Was that sarcasm? I couldn't tell.

[SOAP]

Persoanlly I would put ALttP some time after the FS series since in the remake you have to reforge the shattered Four Sword and the interaction between the remake and the added FS multiplayer feature. And since FSA is legit Zelda game and the sequel to FS eveything in FS including how it affected ALttP must be taken in consideration... at least. Oh yeah, there's also the uncanny resemblance between HA and ALttP's world maps. Yeah.

I don't see what the big fuggin deal is with the Master Sword in Oracles. It's part of the Zeldaverse and belongs there. It is not a bonus! End of story! So what if it wasn't neccessary in finishing the game. So weren't more than half the masks in MM, especially the Feirce Deity mask. Next your going to tell me they don't matter either.

Other than that, I can see your point. I myself have a few personal qualms with TMC being first. But it seems like you are trying to tackle too many issues here besides TMC's placement.

[TSA]

FS DS is my educated guess due to four swords GBA's backstory not being The Minish Cap, and The Minish Cap saying Link and Zelda have another adventure. Also, HA seemed like the end of the FS storyline to me. So I think FS DS is the backstory of FS GBA.

That's my logic for that placement.

Yes - A lot must happene between TWW and ALttP. Hyrule must come back, and Ganon must get into the Dark World. Luckily, Nintendo shocked us all with the new Zelda trailer, maybe the will shock us again by explaining something about the timeline...

How about an intro that places all the Zelda games before the new 2005 Zelda in proper order...

Rumors...rumors...rumors...

[davogones]

Questions/Comments:

- The Four Sword was introduced in ALttP, not in TMC.

- Where do you put the Minish Cap backstory? If we agree that the Four Sword was there in ALttP, then it seems the backstory has to happen before ALttP.

- The Oracles being in TMC doesn't mean anything. Nayru can time travel, she could have brought them anywhere she pleased. Besides, they don't seem to know Link or even hint that he's like anyone they've ever known.

[TSA]

C) The Four Sword was introduced in ALttP, not in TMC.

R) It's a bonus. Just like the Master Sword in Oracles. It's not a sidequest, it's a bonus feature. ALttP ends when you beat Ganon. You see the ending.

C) Where do you put the Minish Cap backstory? If we agree that the Four Sword was there in ALttP, then it seems the backstory has to happen before ALttP.

R) I think TMC backstory takes place a long time ago.

C) The Oracles being in TMC doesn't mean anything. Nayru can time travel, she could have brought them anywhere she pleased. Besides, they don't seem to know Link or even hint that he's like anyone they've ever known.

R) I never said they are the same Oracles. It does say Nayru is the descendant of a famous priestess, though. So maybe they are descendants of the Oracles in the Oracle games?

[davogones]

It's a bonus. Just like the Master Sword in Oracles. It's not a sidequest, it's a bonus feature. ALttP ends when you beat Ganon. You see the ending.
So what are you saying? That the Four Sword isn't *really* in ALttP? Just like l-o-s always says the Master Sword in the Oracle games is just an easter egg so isn't *really* there? I disagree with both standpoints.

I think TMC backstory takes place a long time ago.
In your timeline it has to at least take place before ALttP, if the Four Sword is in ALttP. This would mean that, in TMC, everyone knows about the Minish Cap backstory but not about the events of LoZ/AoL/Oracles, even though all these things happen in Hyrule. Unless you're arguing that the Minish Cap backstory was only one legend told in Hyrule, and that they did actually know about the other events. But then you have to explain why nobody knew about Ganondorf in FSA. Somehow everyone remembered these ancient events in TMC, but by the time of FSA they'd forgotten everything about everything that had happened before FSA? Dunno, it's possible but seems like a stretch.

I never said they are the same Oracles. It does say Nayru is the descendant of a famous priestess, though. So maybe they are descendants of the Oracles in the Oracle games?
What's the point of putting the FS games after the Oracle games then? Couldn't the Oracle games happen after the FS games just as well?

[Kairu Hakubi]

i dunno about the master sword in oracles, but the four sword in ALttP is definitely an easter egg. why? because it isn't in the original version of the game.. and both games cannot coexist if an item exists in one and not in another. not an important item like that, anyway.

[Zythe]

Just wondering TSA, but where is the "Sleeping Zelda" story, the "Imprisoning War", the "Four Sword Legend", and the "Hero of Man" story go at in your timeline.

I think the Four Sword Legend (I assume the backstory from FSGBA) is TMC. TMC>FS>HA

[MikePetersSucks]

Except, Zythe, that TMC didn't conclude in Vaati being sealed away. It resolved in his supposed destruction, so there is still an adventure or two between TMC and FS

[Hana-Nezumi]

i used beleive in the multi-timeline, but now i cant decide!

[davogones]

i dunno about the master sword in oracles, but the four sword in ALttP is definitely an easter egg. why? because it isn't in the original version of the game.. and both games cannot coexist if an item exists in one and not in another. not an important item like that, anyway.

The new version of ALttP overwrites the old version. But even under your logic, the new version is not inconsistent with the old version. It's not that the Four Sword didn't EXIST in the original version of the game. It just wasn't SHOWN. The Four Sword was not an integral part of the story and did not need to be shown.

Looking at it from the persective of there being a "real Hyrule," there were many events going on that the game didn't show, because the game is just a representation, a model, of the real events. The Four Sword was THERE in the real world all along. ALttP for SNES didn't show it; ALttP for GBA did.

[Zythe]

Except, Zythe, that TMC didn't conclude in Vaati being sealed away. It resolved in his supposed destruction, so there is still an adventure or two between TMC and FS

So you see it as TMCBS>TMC>FSBS>FS>HA?

There's practically a series of FS games in their own. Ganon watch out, Vaati's making a play for your throne as ultimate Zelda baddy!

[Zythe]

I still can't see FS at the end of the timeline, I see various games at different places in the timeline as Hyrule moves from the days of Vaati's power (TMC) near OOT and MM on to Ganon's (FSA) near LOZ and AOL.

[SwordBreaker]

Thank you TSA!

I've been raving like mad about the Oracles taking place post-AoL for AGES. Glad to see I'm not a mad man no more now that we're both on the same side. Ganon's dead in the LoZ/AoL era...Triforce reunified in Hyrule...in the Oracles they try to revive him...Link has the Triforce mark on his hand in the Oracles just like AoL...it just fits! lol. Have a couple of quotes/threads at Nsider if you wanna see 'em. I haven't played TMC yet, but you put together a pretty convincing theory there.

Get back to you once I get my sweaty hands on TMC.

[Zythe]

That works, but then you also have to factor in the other games.

Does this work:

TMC-OOT-MM-TWW-FS-OOS-OOA-LTTP-LA-HA-LOZ-AOL

[SwordBreaker]

Regarding the Master Sword being an easter egg in the Oracles, well I have to agree with that statement. Other than the method of it being obtained (demensional transfer via Oracle of Secrets), another reason is that we can progress through the game even if we don't obtain The Master Sword.

The Oracles games are also known for being the only games in which we can kill Ganon without using a mystical weapon...no Master Sword, no Four Sword, and no Silver Arrows...Link can just plain kill him with a normal/noble sword. That says that Ganon is weak and the Master Sword isn't even needed in the game.

[Zythe]

Um - LOZ, you can kill Ganon with basic sword (+Silver Arrows).

[SwordBreaker]

Well can you kill him WITHOUT the Silver Arrows in LoZ? I mentioned mystical weapons in general, not just The Master Sword.

[Zythe]

OK. But then again, he was resurrected using Twinrova's life force, which isn't nearly as powerful as Zelda's (their original plan) and Twinrova can be killed without anything mystical.

[Zythe]

We have to assume that the Palace of the Four Sword was a "real" place in ALTTP, that couldn't be accessed. Which also means, that before Ganon put his pyramid over Hyrule castle, the Four Sword Shrine was the Sacred Realm equivalent of Hyrule Castle.

That raises another question, is the Minish Realm also the Sacred Realm? It would explain how the light force was given to people by the Minish, they could be the SR's natural inhabitants before being killed off by Ganon's evil wishes.