50 replies to this topic

[Selena]

edit:  This topic has now transformed into a round table discussion on the future of LA. See below.

[JRPomazon]

Did we ever discover the reason why the site was down?

 

EDIT: read the Anon forum, please disregard this post.

 

EDIT 2: I reckon with so few of us left here on the forum, perhaps we should have a town hall style discussion on how we want to proceed with the future of this community. What we can save, how we can start over, whether we just screw the whole thing and just stick to social media.

Edited by JRPomazon, 06 August 2016 - 10:25 PM.

[Crimson Lego]

If it's possible for Khuffie to transfer ownership/maintenance of the server to one of the active admins, I'd be more than happy to help contribute to monthly costs.

 

 

The boards and memories are worth it if you guys go down that road.

[Sir Turtlelot]

Good, the food in the bunker sucked. I've been sick for days, BUT I REGRET NOTHING!

 

...

 

Okay, onto the matter at hand.

 

I'm in agreement with Leo, I much prefer the forums/discussion boards format to alternative options, especially social media. While the Facebook group has been a nice way to connect with each other, it's also siphoned away a good deal of our member's attention and traffic from LA itself, resulting in much more convenient, but ultimately much less meaningful conversations.

 

If Khuffie is content to keep LA running, despite dwindling numbers, then I say we let him. The only real change needed would perhaps be a better method of communicating with him if LA were to go down again. We should save the more extreme measures of starting a community fund or switching over to a freeboards style once/if it becomes a necessity.

 

I propose, rather than merely accept LA as a declining community, we should instead try and discuss methods of increasing traffic on the site, and trying to get some fresh blood on the boards. For as much as I like LA being the small close knit community that we are, if we continue to do nothing about the decline it will only result in further stagnation in the community.

 

However, I know this is much easier said than done, and unless one of us is secretly some famous YouTuber, our options may be rather limited. I know in the past I've tried with creating an LA banner to put in my signature on other sites, with a hyperlink to LA attached, but to little success it would seem. So I think at this point, anything would be on the table.

[Egann]

I would miss you guys more than I would really like to admit. In many ways I grew up on LA. That said...this proposal will likely hurt. 

 

I think we should rebrand LA and do some strategic changes to our SEO. I love Zelda, but they haven't released a good product in about ten years. The lack of Zelda fanfiction and timeline speculation has murdered our stream of new members, which is strangling LA. Even if Breath of the Wild is amazing...it won't save Legends Alliance.

 

It's time to find a new IP to build a forum around. Heck, with the talent I know this board has, I don't think we even need an IP--although that would be harder. I would love an archived forum to keep talking Zelda in, but it shouldn't be our primary focus. 

 

Also some online content--even if it's just member reposts--would be fantastic. I'm planning on starting a Tabletop RPG podcast/ YT channel soon to promote the indy studio I'm now a part of, and I know a lot of the rest of you have online tools like blogs or twitter accounts. I'm not sure I know how to fold that into LA, but we need some kind of regular and unique content to attract new members. If we put our heads together, we can make LA into a growing community again. But it will require work.

Edited by Egann, 07 August 2016 - 12:48 PM.

[Selena]

All right. I was going to save this discussion until I had consulted with all the admins, but I suppose we can launch a public discussion right now.  So, situation report:

 

 

About the forum itself:

 

1. LA is hosted on Khuffie's private server. When that server has an issue, Legends Alliance become inaccessible, and the regular admins are unable to do anything to fix it. Only Khuffie can reboot the server and bring us back online. Downtime is rare, but it can also be indefinite if we are unable to reach Khuffie. Because it is his private server, I don't think any of us can assume direct control of it.
    
2. LA's forum software is increasingly becoming out-of-date. We no longer have a license key, features are limited because we aren't premium anymore. While Invision (board software) is not bad by any means, other forum hosts are keeping more on top of things. And for free.
    
3. Let's be honest -- pretty sure Khuff isn't too interested in LA or ZL anymore. I can't remember the last time he posted or directly contacted the admin team. Zelda Legends, our attached website, hasn't really been updated in about two years. Even longer for most of the site's features.

 

We're not in an overly difficult position. There's no genuine threat of LA going permanently offline without warning. But since we're effectively no longer a Zelda forum, and since ZL is essentially dead, and since the leadership team can't really do anything to fix major tech issues, we may want to consider other options for LA's future. Some options to consider are:

 

1. We keep LA as-is. Again, there's no threat of immediate and permanent shutdown. We just have to consider the future.
    
2. We move LA to ProBoards. This is a free, full-service forum host. Free skins, free features, no threat of lasting downtime. This would involve a slight url change and a fresh start -- old posts and data from this forum would NOT carry over into the new one. On the other hand, we could also refocus and restructure LA in whatever ways we want to. 
    
3. We go exclusively Facebook. We open up the existing Facebook group to new members and exclusively post there. Facebook is very limited in terms of content -- long posts and thorough discussion is a bit more difficult. But it's also convenient. More people are active on Facebook than they are on the forums. But there are also members, like Vet, who don't like Facebook and would likely not be in contact with us as a group ever again. (Regardless of what option we pick, the facebook group will still be maintained for quick notices and stuff)
    
4. Additional suggestions welcome, as there are many more social media platforms available now. 
    

About new members and forum traffic:

Since Turtlebro brought it up. Indeed, new members are probably the only way to keep LA active in the long run. Otherwise, all us old folks will start drifting away with each additional adult responsibility we have! LA's main source of traffic was Zelda Legends. When ZL was one of the internet's most popular Zelda fansites, we got new members all the time and has thousands of posts per day. Now, ZL is dead. LA is a general discussion forum. We have no primary focus with which to draw new members in.

 

Of course, not a lot of us have a big presence on social media to create some big new focus. We'd have to discuss options for generating traffic. Something like:

 

* Having members post game reviews

* Having members do youtube let's plays

* General media reviews / etc. 

 

Our main common interest is video games and nerd culture, so we could potentially become a collective of game streamers and game reviewers and stuff like that. This would, however, require regular contributions from members.

 

Otherwise, we can keep it a closed forum and just live out our golden years in peace.

 

 

 

 

 

Big post, I know, but thoughts?

[Chikara Nadir]

I agree with Lena that Facebook is both limited and also, frankly, ADD. While it's fun to reconnect, you can't really post long topics, keep them organized in any fashion, or guarantee that people will even remember to pay attention to the topic (or the entire group).

 

A new forum host could make the most sense in keeping the structure as intact as possible without worrying that it's woefully outdated and breaking semi-regularly. But I'd mourn for all those lost posts and accounts. 

[LoreleiRaven]

I know I have been pretty nonexistent on the forum, but I've recently been interested in giving it another try. (I'm more into chat rooms, I guess.) Anyway, for  what it's worth... I think that Option 2 is the best. It provides more stability and more opportunities to revive the forums.

 

As for member contribution... There are a lot of talented people and many options there as well. Someone could (solo or tandem) write weekly serials. Some of the more artistic could do a weekly comic or something? Gaming opens a world of options. I have in the past tried to get friends from the "real world" and from IRC to join here. Another option is someone could design lightweight flyers for us to print out and ask about posting in local bookshops, game stores, and other generally nerdy locations. 

 

Personally, I can post a link to the forum on my twitter, and on my FB page for my writing. Try to get the word out to people that way. Others could do the same. 

 

Anyway, that is my vote. I would hate to see this place gone. (Relocated is fine though.)

[Green Goblin]

The only way the site will continue to actually be worth it (ie: Not just remain on life support, which (let's face it), LA has been on for like at least 5 years.) is for us to be proactive in maintaining it.

Switching to ProBoards may the best option, but we need to attract new folks to the forum too.  The Reviews and LPs idea is something that I could see developing some traction.  I do movie reviews off of my Facebook.  I'd be cool with doing them on the site too.  We need to be aggressive with pushing for new members and in order to do that, we need to push something that attracts new people around, apart from simple discussion.  Zelda isn't a niche interest anymore and with the advent of social media, people are more than comfortable just sharing these types of discussions on Facebook or Twitter first. 

So yeah.  Let's focus on getting a hook to get new people here.  That is, if there's enough interest to do so. 

Edited by Green Goblin, 07 August 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[Egann]

How big is the Legends Alliance server? I wonder if we could set up a legacy server on a raspberry pi or something so we have a backup. Support a proper forum or keep post counts? Probably not. But we could keep the content, anyway.

 

Just floating the idea; I have no idea if that's particularly practical.

[Oberon Storm]

We have a Facebook group?

[Toan]

This is a good discussion to have. LA is very special to me, having introduced me to so many people I care about - I mean, I met my wife here so that should go without saying. So, thank you to you guys for kicking it off.

 

That said, I do lurk here quite often. I rarely post. Sometimes it's because I don't feel like I have anything meaningful to say, other times it's because I quite honestly don't have the free time that I used to, as Lena pointed out. Many of us were mid-teenagers when we were posting several hundred times a day (it's a wonder we don't all have ADHD and carpal-tunnel). I'd say the average age of most of us now are mid-twenties, some in their thirties. Life has gotten in the way.

 

I think the main problem that impacts activity has been touched on by a few people here already. Namely, the lack of a 'hook'. Zelda Legends was our driver. It hasn't been touched in years, and for a while earlier this year it was down for literally months. The website looks like it was designed circa-2003, and the backend is a nightmare - a digital equivalent to the attic in which Mikey and friends found the map to One-Eyed Willie's treasures. It's not a wonder that nobody visits, thus the forums suffer too.

 

But, while LA was about Zelda on paper, we all know that LA was always just a general discussion forum - those Zelda people stuck to their sections, and the rest of of us banded together for our own shenanigans. So I'm left wondering what the hell kind of focus we could have that would even be called a "focus" instead of just a random collection of projects from different members of a has-been community.

 

I think we need to figure out what we want out of a place, instead of just having a place for the sake of having it.

 

Some random tidbits I should share:

• LA has a license key, but it's a "Lifetime" key, which IPB discontinued in favor of a rolling subscription (ala Netflix). Thus, while we're not running the forums illegally, we're lacking on features and updates like Lena mentioned.
• To that end, way earlier this year Khuff messaged me on FB so he and I could try some other types of forum software to migrate LA to, but life got in the way and we haven't made progress on it.
• Khuffie's only responsibility at this point is LA. ZL isn't Khuffie's responsibility - he transferred all that over to davogones years ago. He's got a career, a wife, and a toddler now, and I sometimes see him post on twitter but that's about it. I think lord-of-shadows co-owns ZL too, but he's also busy with life, and is far more active on Zelda Universe instead of here.

[wisp]

I'm opposed to switching exclusively to Facebook and not thrilled at the thought of opening membership publicly in the FB group. I like LA to remain separate from most of my IRL contacts. But I honestly don't see most of us favoring that route anyway. I want to keep the forum as a forum, even if it IS on life support.

My preference is to keep this board up as an archive and move to ProBoards or something similar, as Lena suggested. We could put a redirect notice at the top of the page here so that any old members who want to find their way back can still locate us.

Another thing we could consider is opening our own subreddit and moving there.... But one of my favorite things about being on a traditional forum is the ability to have the milk bar in a semi-private location. I don't think that would be possible on Reddit or Facebook.

[Chikara Nadir]

We have a Facebook group?

Yes indeedy. https://www.facebook...ups/2205114886/

[LoreleiRaven]

Edited

Namely, the lack of a 'hook'.

What if the new hook was some nerd culture safe haven type thing?

Edited by LoreleiRaven, 07 August 2016 - 02:45 PM.

[Twinrova]

Another thing we could consider is opening our own subreddit and moving there.... But one of my favorite things about being on a traditional forum is the ability to have the milk bar in a semi-private location. I don't think that would be possible on Reddit or Facebook.

 

You can set a subreddit to be private or invite only, if that makes you feel better.

 

 

And to the topic at hand, I'm ok with any of the options besides relying solely on FB. I actually hadn't considered us making a subreddit, that could be a really good option. The only issue with that is if reddit ever goes under (unlikely, but you never know) we lose all our stuff. And no avatars. >_> But they have the option to put in "flair" next to your username and with our limited numbers I don't think it would be out of the question for everyone to have their own. Just, much less flexibility as far as changing it regularly, and they're pretty tiny.

Edited by Twinrova, 07 August 2016 - 02:49 PM.

[wisp]

Another thing we could consider is opening our own subreddit and moving there.... But one of my favorite things about being on a traditional forum is the ability to have the milk bar in a semi-private location. I don't think that would be possible on Reddit or Facebook.

 
You can set a subreddit to be private or invite only, if that makes you feel better.
 
 
And to the topic at hand, I'm ok with any of the options besides relying solely on FB. I actually hadn't considered us making a subreddit, that could be a really good option. The only issue with that is if reddit ever goes under (unlikely, but you never know) we lose all our stuff.

In that case, if we went that route we could just do several subreddits and they could link to each other. Milk bar can be private and we send invites to people who are part of our community. A forum would still be better IMO, but it's an option anyway.

[Toan]

Subredditing could be a viable alternative.. Let's see:

 

• No worries over hosting or anything, and it's free
• Mods on reddit essentially have admin powers of the forum
• We can still customize our appearance in terms of the subreddit CSS
• Flair, as Rova pointed out, exists, but once small correction: you CAN enable it so users can have their own flair. See /r/talesfromtechsupport, for instance.
• The core mechanic of upvoting topics and comments would be interesting. I think Vet is opposed to the idea of down votes (it's an option that is currently disabled on IPB for us), but that can be turned off in a subreddit's options I believe.

[Selena]

My personal views on the situation.

 

I favor a move to ProBoards and a new direction for LA. At least for the "heart" of LA. Reasons:

 

* Downtime would be virtually non-existent.

* ProBoards offers free updates, free features, no size limits, and unlimited bandwidth.

* Streamlined mobile layout is included for all your smartphones / tablets / bathroom-time-wasting-devices.

* Additional premium features are available if we ever want to chip in for them, including a custom url and removal of ads.

* Will still allow us to make big posts easily, and in a straightforward layout.

* Khuffie no longer has any obligations to maintain us.

* While we'd admittedly lose our data here, this ain't my first "start LA over from scratch" rodeo.

 

If Khuffie's open to it, we could leave a redirect here for any members who might come back in the future. At least for a little while. The remainder of LA would be archived. The Zelda forums could possibly be left active, but that would ultimately be Khuffie's call. His server, after all.

 

 

 

I'd be up for contributing to a more focused LA. We would need a couple different strategies to make it work.

 

We'd probably need a dedicated website (or at least a blog) to serve as a launch pad for all our contributions. Like how Zelda Legends used to drive our traffic. That's free too these days, so no biggie. We could give all "columnists" login access. Posts would link back to the forums. We could post our columns on our facebook pages, too. GG, for example, already does movie reviews that his friends all read. 

 

We may also want to make a public Legends Alliance group on facebook to highlight our contributions, too. Facebook gets a lot of attention, though meaningful conversation is best left to forums.Our existing group could be the "members only" hangout. Creating a platform these days largely means branching across multiple social media networks. We could have an official Twitter account, too, perhaps. Just for updates and highlights. A subreddit could be there, too. Though reddit feels a little limited for our core conversation place. 

 

I could see us making gamer clubs on the forums, too. A social club for people who play Overwatch, for example. Or any number of online games. So we could share tactics and coordinate group activities. 

 

 

 

Just food for thought.

[LoreleiRaven]

What about the non reddit using users? (Such as myself, tho I am a less than minuscule part of this.) I like Selena's suggestion. I also have time on my hands to help out in any way I can. If needed.

[Twinrova]

Making an account on reddit is extremely easy, just username and password. You don't even have to provide an email address if you don't want to, though that erases the possibility of recovering your password should you lose it.

 

 

Lena, can you expand on "the remainder of LA would be archived"? Is it something we'd be able to browse?

Edited by Twinrova, 07 August 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[Selena]

Provided that Khuffie will allow the boards to remain active with a redirect link, then yes -- you could likely browse Old LA at your discretion. For as long as Khuff kept things running.

[Toan]

Not to sound negative or to thwart any progress, but the idea of a large brand has me wondering what that brand would be.

 

Is Zelda still a strong enough topic for us to focus on? I worry that our efforts to create such a brand would only pit us against Zelda Universe, Zelda Informer, the Zelda subreddit... all of which are far stronger than us at the moment. What do we stand to gain - what niche are we filling?

 

What are our goals?

 

My answer to that: It sounds to me like we want to make a community for us, and invite others to join. A place to coordinate gaming, discuss gaming, and discuss other aspects of ourselves, but mostly to create and foster a tight-knit group of friends to play games amongst ourselves.

 

To that end, maybe we should consider the possibility of calling ourselves and our brand, our niche, as a gaming clan.

 

An example is the Reddit Dads Crew Lounge. (I am not a part of this, but just follow the concept). Essentially this is a group of fathers with life obligations who have a common goal: to play games together, and foster a community. A structure like this but for us would work well. Like I said before, a place to coordinate gaming, discuss gaming, and discuss other aspects of ourselves, but mostly to create and foster a tight-knit group of friends to play games amongst ourselves.

 

Furthermore, if we permeate our clan name on the game platforms we play, finding newcomers is a piece of cake.

 

The technical structure of such a clan would follow closely with Lena's previous comment, with a forum-based environment, maybe a need for a blog (or not), perhaps a subreddit, some social media outreach, etc.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

[Twinrova]

So you want us to be a gaming...........alliance?

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no what about our emotes can we have those on the shiny new LA

Edited by Twinrova, 07 August 2016 - 03:52 PM.

[Selena]

ProBoards says they feature smilies, though it doesn't specify if you can have custom ones. I might just reserve the LA name with them and poke around a bit. If we end up not going that route, I'll just close the account down.

 

 

I don't know what specific niche focus we could have. Grouchy Senior Millennials? Mortgages and Killstreaks? 

[Toan]

ProBoards says they feature smilies, though it doesn't specify if you can have custom ones. I might just reserve the LA name with them and poke around a bit. If we end up not going that route, I'll just close the account down.

 

 

I don't know what specific niche focus we could have. Grouchy Senior Millennials? Mortgages and Killstreaks? 

 

Sounds good on the ProBoards bit.

 

As for specific niche, which entertaining with those names I think you're onto something with a theme... Something of that nature would be funny enough to be us, but reflect the fact we've grown up (and perhaps dissuade too many 13-year-old squeakers from bothering us).

[Egann]

So, my opinions thusfar:

 

Facebook:  Please no. I lurk facebook, I do not use facebook.

 

Reddit: I can see reddit making a solid Bunker Site B. I like the idea of Reddit, but I have reservations. Namely every bloody single one of my contro posts will be downvoted into the toilet and you know it. I'm not sure I like you guys being able to ignore me that easily.

 

ProBoards: I've done several play-by-posts in ProBoards. This is the best option for keeping LA recognizably the Legends Alliance we grew up with, but it really needs some solid "find me" SEO pages linked to it. The rest don't really need a promotion page. This one does. Love to provide content for it, though.

 

 

 

As for rebranding...I'm not sure we need it. Legends Alliance doesn't imply it's Zelda past, and the title keeps us open to exploring fantasy/ sci fi and whatever mediums we want, from books to movies to video games. The problem? That's arguably too broad a net.

 

If someone has a solid idea for a name or a more specific niche market, however, I'm game. I'm friends with the people, not the name or building.

[Selena]

I like keeping the LA name as a headliner, because we'd still ultimately be an alliance of gamers, though maybe we could have a catchy sub-title to represent our specific niche audience. Instead of focusing purely on gamers our own age, we could also have a theme of mentoring younger gamers if anyone wants to bring youngbloods back onto the forums. We're the "Old Guard" of gaming. 

 

But that's only if we don't want to focus on a specific age group. Some of us grouchy old folks may not want teens/kids around anymore. 

[Selena]

Updating from poking around ProBoards:

 

* It's all largely the same, so no big changes for members or mods

* Admins will have a small learning curve, because the admin CP is organized differently

 

* Built-in forum chatroom -- chatbox appears on every page unless disabled

* News announcments on top of the forum

* Really easy to customize skins or build your own

* Social media integration

* Plugins can be installed to add custom features, though there's limited storage space for plugins and themes

* Storage space can be upgrade for a fee if necessary

 

* We can add custom profile fields for original join dates and stuff

* We can "reserve" display names so that other people cannot use them

* Member groups work the way they do here

* Which means aww yeah, we can bring dorms back if we get an influx of new members for a while

* Customize default avatar selection for new members

* Member ranks can be customized like they are here

 

* Mass email system, so we can email all members at once 

 

 

 

Not yet seeing a space for custom emotes, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.

edit: there it is. Yes, custom emotes allowed.

[Twinrova]

How are the ads? I mean I use AdBlock so I don't actually care but would they be deterring to any potential new members?