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Mario Maker Level Swap


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#121 Raien

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 12:59 PM

Reading through this topic, I am incredibly annoyed with myself. I got this game at launch and am very interested in the discussion about good level design and would really enjoy playing your levels and sending you mine. But I have this problem when I get a new game that is surprisingly good; I get addicted to the point where I just don't sleep at night if I play it, and then I have to completely avoid it for a few months before I can properly enjoy it again. And Mario Maker is sadly no exception. I made one level and then couldn't sleep for needing to constantly tweak it and improve upon it. And now I just can't play the game at all. I just have to hope you guys are still playing Mario Maker months from now, although I probably shouldn't hold out hope seeing as other games will inevitably come out this holiday to occupy your time.

 

But I would at least like to share my observations on what I consider good level design, as well as some fun discoveries based on what I learned tweaking the one level I made (but no longer have).

 

- Given that coins and 1-ups aren't that rewarding in Mario Maker as they are in the original games, visceral rewards are more interesting to find. In my case, I found that by placing a row of coin blocks above a Wiggler, Mario could repeatedly bounce off the Wiggler to hit the coins. Since Wiggler moves around, it gives the player a kind of "rodeo" feel where they try to stay on Wiggler while grabbing as many coins as they can. If you can find a way to get players to "play" with the enemies like this, it gives the level a toy-like feel that anyone can enjoy.

 

- One thing I read is that trampolines and music blocks require much more precise button timing to get high jumps in Mario Maker than they do in classic Mario. I don't know if this has been fixed in the recent patch but if it hasn't, it might be worth avoiding those items or at least giving the player more leeway if they make a mistake. One cool thing I found was putting a Hammer Bros. on a trampoline. As long as the player has lots of running room, I think it's more fun to get around a bouncing Hammer Bros. than a standard Hammer Bros.

 

- If you're looking for something cool to do with Bowser at the end of a level, I stumbled upon a great moment. In my level, I placed Bowser on a mushroom platform and then placed a moving platform behind him. You couldn't beat Bowser in this level; you have to get around him. But when I jumped past him onto the moving platform, something unexpected happened. Bowser turned around and leaped off his mushroom platform to get to me! But because my platform was moving right, Bowser missed it and fell to his death. It was a close call, though, and that makes it feel more intense than killing him normally.

 

- In my experience, what makes a good Mario challenge comes from two things:

 

1) The player doesn't have to worry about things that aren't on the screen. This point applies to any arcade game, actually. Unless they're knowingly solving a puzzle, most players like to think and react in the moment. If the player is hit by a surprise trap from off-screen or met by a blockade that they need an item from way back to pass, they're usually not going to be happy with the level. Players want to deal with dangers they can see.

 

2) Flexible pacing. Classic Mario is the kind of game that lets the player see a dangerous jump or obstacle ahead and then gives them the time to decide how to approach it. If the player is trying to work out a jump but they're constantly distracted by Bullet Bills or Lakitus, then they're going to get frustrated. If you do want to rush the player a little with enemies like Lakitu, tone down the difficulty of the platforms so the player has more room to avoid the enemies. Also, if the level is really difficult, it's always good to include a few safe spots along the way for the player to take a breather.

 

 

And that's mostly it from me. If I have one big criticism of Mario Maker besides the checkpoints, it's that the game is terrible at theming. Not having many level themes like deserts is one thing, but not being able to mix and match the level assets is an even bigger restriction. I wanted to create a level around boarding a giant airship, but then I remembered that you can't use the airship assets on the ground theme. Being able to mix the assets around would do wonders for the imaginations of players. Just look at the trailer for the Super Mario Bros. X fan game for an example of what could be achieved.



#122 SteveT

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 09:15 PM

Those are good tips, and I'm sure we'll still be interested when you post levels.  This game is about playing all the Mario, after all.  There's no end in sight!

 

I put up a new one.  Ride the Thwomps!  I have a bit of a "don't touch the ground" addiction, if you haven't noticed.  That's how I plays levels and that's how I makes them.  7B2C-0000-0095-14EF



#123 SteveT

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 09:39 PM

Thumbs up to the new Cave of Ordeals.  The whole thing feels more polished and fun.  The checkpoint was very welcome.



#124 Masamune

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 10:11 PM

It was a good stage, though it took me some time to figure out some of it. Mostly it was fair in letting you restart if you messed up. That said, the second section where you have to ride the third thwomp up is a murderfest thanks to the pits. Also I wasn't fast enough to save Yoshi. I blame you.



#125 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 03:08 AM

- One thing I read is that trampolines and music blocks require much more precise button timing to get high jumps in Mario Maker than they do in classic Mario.

I wonder if it's HDTV lag giving people problems with that.

#126 Masamune

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 06:33 AM

This was kind of fun, but I got a PM on reddit inviting me to a livestream where they would play my level. It was really cool to see it played and they really enjoyed it as well. Here's the link with timestamp: http://www.twitch.tv...3960?t=0h52m00s



#127 SteveT

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 08:25 AM

That said, the second section where you have to ride the third thwomp up is a murderfest thanks to the pits. Also I wasn't fast enough to save Yoshi. I blame you.

 

You've killed Yoshi with your own lack of commitment.  That's another running theme of my levels: optional challenges that get you killed, but make the rest of the level easier.

 

I'll take another go at that thwomp section.  It does seem a little wrong for the toughest puzzle to crack to also be the most deadly.

 

This was kind of fun, but I got a PM on reddit inviting me to a livestream where they would play my level. It was really cool to see it played and they really enjoyed it as well. Here's the link with timestamp: http://www.twitch.tv...3960?t=0h52m00s

 

That was fun to watch.  Very receptive audience.  I also loved the cynicism that Mario Masochist has instilled upon the world.  "If this pipe kills me..."



#128 SteveT

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 08:27 PM

New version:

 

E1B9-0000-0097-0F3C



#129 Raien

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 05:18 PM

So someone has apparently found a way to make invisible platforms (i.e. platforms you can stand on but not see). The method goes like this:

 

1) Create the platform you wish to make invisible out of any block or cloud platform.

2) Elsewhere, create a small piece of track and place an invisible block in its center.

3) Drag the track over until the invisible block is situated on top of the platform, then delete the track.

4) Rinse and repeat until every piece of the platform is invisible.

 

Finally, players can now re-create that leap of faith scene from the end of The Last Crusade.

 

Also today I finally got the two 8-bit Mario amiibo from Japan. They are incredibly cool figurines and I'm looking forward to trying them out with the game.



#130 Masamune

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 09:03 PM

It's been awhile since I made a stage, so I decided to recreate my favorite level from SMB2, level 4-2:

 

AE1C-0000-00A9-F1F1


Edited by Masamune, 15 October 2015 - 01:12 PM.


#131 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 04:31 PM

9T7b.jpg
100+1 Goomba Mosh Pit!
9A31-0000-00B2-E7FD

#132 SteveT

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 03:22 PM

The SMB2 one reminds me why SMB2 was a miserable, hateful game.  That said, the remake was good.  You pulled some good tricks to make it work, the whales and Birdo in particular.
 
Hana, well done on turning Mario Maker stereotypes into something more fun.
 
I put up a new one last night.  Bounce House E438-0000-00BB-1B3F.
 
It was originally going to be an unforgiving don't-touch-the-ground, but something snapped in my feeble Earth-brain and it morphed into something else.  It's kind of my take on Mario Maker insanity levels, without totally drowning myself in the concept.  
 
The stage is me pandering to the crowd is what I'm trying to say.

Edited by SteveT, 23 October 2015 - 03:25 PM.


#133 SteveT

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 09:54 AM

Checkpoints are coming!

 



#134 SteveT

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 10:03 PM

I beat Expert for the first time tonight, thanks to a zero tolerance policy on bad levels and cheap deaths.  My reward was a Wii Balance Board costume.

 

Screw you, Mario.



#135 SteveT

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 04:08 PM

So I re-uploaded my harder stages with checkpoints.  I'm glad that's an option now and hopefully I'll see my clear percentage goes up.

 

I started doing that with Bowser's Gauntlet, and I'm just less happy with how that stage turned out every time I played it.  It's gone for the time being pending major renovations.



#136 Masamune

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 08:10 PM

The checkpoints sound just like what the game needed, but as much as I want to go and fix some of my levels, there's not much yet calling me back. I really do want more tools to play with, but the developers don't seem to make it sound like it's going to happen. Write now I'm in tortured artist mode because I have no idea what I want to make now.



#137 SteveT

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 11:44 PM

I hear you there.  I feel a little burnt out on level creation.  Hopefully, the bug will hit me again in the future.  Until then, there are plenty of levels to play.  Millions, even.


Edited by SteveT, 08 November 2015 - 12:09 AM.


#138 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 05:17 AM

I kinda ran out of steam too, big time! I couldn't think of a single thing I wanted to make. But then I got one idea brewing and now I'm back to making! It's so great to have checkpoints to work with now, and I love the event courses and official courses that were added as well! Undodog's course is my favorite.

I'm familiar with Arino Kacho from Game Center CX and Super Mario Kun so those event courses and their respective costumes were delightful surprises to me. I like that they also have clear explanations in the course descriptions so non-Japanese players would have at least some context. Unfortunately, there's no in-game English context for Mary O.'s and Yamamura's courses, as they're based on course-making lesson comics from Nintendo's Japanese website, but fortunately you can find translations here:
http://en.rocketnews...in-mario-maker/
http://en.rocketnews...-comic-to-help/

Also, I updated my Peach in Wonderland course. I overhauled things a bit to try to make it more enjoyable and a little more challenging, also, if you play it with comments visible, you can see captions I made! The new course ID is:

ED25-0000-00DA-BD4E

Edited by Hana-Nezumi, 08 November 2015 - 05:23 AM.


#139 SteveT

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:37 PM

I made a new level, and it's my reaction to people who peace out at the first sign of adversity.  It's also a terrible level.

 

It will amuse me greatly if I can maintain a 100% completion, 0 star streak.

 

A09D-0000-00DF-E657



#140 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 04:19 AM

Two new courses from me!

hT9b.jpg
Find The Golden Pearl
6A13-0000-00E4-326A

iT9b.jpg
Necky's Adventure
CBB7-0000-00E5-8106
(I'm terrible for what's at the end of this one)

Edited by Hana-Nezumi, 12 November 2015 - 04:20 AM.


#141 SteveT

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 12:06 AM

I found the Golden Pearl.  Not so much the exit.  I gave up, I admit, because I resent all water levels.

 

The end of Necky's Adventure was hilarious.  Let me know if Nintendo takes the level down on you.

 

I added a new one.  Flight Test 4.  This is another cape one with a few flight-related puzzles.

 

9ED7-0000-00E6-6FEC



#142 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 02:50 AM

I found the Golden Pearl.  Not so much the exit.  I gave up, I admit, because I resent all water levels.

But... the pearl is the exit?
 

The end of Necky's Adventure was hilarious.  Let me know if Nintendo takes the level down on you.

I certainly will! I believe it's safe, nothing was really blatant, just implied. I'm glad to hear you thought it was funny! I was really kind of unsure of whether others would find it funny, or off-putting, or if it would all just go over people's heads.
 

I added a new one.  Flight Test 4.  This is another cape one with a few flight-related puzzles.
 
9ED7-0000-00E6-6FEC

I couldn't figure out where to go. Then I tried some of your other courses and couldn't beat most of them because I suck. But I was able to beat, and loved, Chompyshrooms! It's a very fun course!

EDIT: I was also able to beat Flight Test 3 after many tries. The time limit is the only thing made it a bit frustrating.

Edited by Hana-Nezumi, 13 November 2015 - 03:20 AM.


#143 SteveT

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 09:20 AM

But... the pearl is the exit?

 

If you'll excuse me, I'll be in the emergency room.  After that facepalm, I need to be treated for a concussion.

 

I couldn't figure out where to go. Then I tried some of your other courses and couldn't beat most of them because I suck. But I was able to beat, and loved, Chompyshrooms! It's a very fun course!

EDIT: I was also able to beat Flight Test 3 after many tries. The time limit is the only thing made it a bit frustrating. 

 

My courses do skew a little hard, but I'm glad you found one you liked.  Chompyshroom was designed primarily for fun, so I'm glad it worked.  Did you find the alternate paths?

 

Agreed on Flight Test 3.  The time limit was a little too tight, especially considering the Ghost House Section.  Which section in Flight Test 4 had you stuck?  Do I need more signage or hints somewhere?  I guess I can't be surprised since there are some lesser known cape mechanics and puzzles.



#144 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 15 November 2015 - 04:32 AM

New course! Don't expect a challenge from this one...
nhAb.jpg
Shy Red Riding Hood
F16A-0000-00EB-468B

My courses do skew a little hard, but I'm glad you found one you liked.  Chompyshroom was designed primarily for fun, so I'm glad it worked.  Did you find the alternate paths?

I think I found an alternate path? I'm not sure. I went through some pipes, then I ignored the one with an arrow pointing into it, jumped over it and ran to the goal, haha.
 

Agreed on Flight Test 3.  The time limit was a little too tight, especially considering the Ghost House Section.  Which section in Flight Test 4 had you stuck?  Do I need more signage or hints somewhere?  I guess I can't be surprised since there are some lesser known cape mechanics and puzzles.

Uh, I was actually stuck on the very first part ^^; It seemed like no matter where I went I ended up just landing on spikes. I'm a lost cause, honestly. Even if you put a trail of arrows leading me exactly where to go, I'm probably wouldn't be able to pull it off. I never was very good with the cape in World.

#145 Masamune

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 08:33 AM

I haven't played in a few months now, but I popped on the game yesterday to check out the new updates... I'm up to 600+ stars now. Blew me away.

 

The new fire-blasting clown car has a lot of potential for auto-scroll shooter-esque levels. Once I have some time, I really want to sit down and come up with something clever for it. 



#146 SteveT

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 12:33 PM

Nicely done!  I'll have to check mine as well, but I doubt I'm nearly that high.

 

I'm a little uneasy about the fireball clown car.  I worry that auto scroll shooters are going to be the next overdone genre.



#147 SteveT

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 04:21 PM

Also, if you're back in the video game, I'm curious to see how you handle Flight Test 4.



#148 Masamune

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 04:52 PM

It was tough, mostly because I didn't understand that you could kill black munchers with the flight crash. After that I was able to work my way through it, though I had to backtrack a few times. The bit where you had to float down and avoid getting caught in those one-direction segments was cruel, though obvious enough that I never actually ran into them. All in all, I liked it!



#149 SteveT

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 08:31 PM

I'm glad to see the clear rate tick up a bit.  It's easily the most technical Flight Test, and I don't think many people know about the crash.



#150 Masamune

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 07:36 AM

Also I feel like we can start sharing these:

 

https://supermarioma...ofile/gamehiker






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