10 replies to this topic

[J-Roc]

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ngers-fans.html

 

So a couple months after the writers of Batwoman quit because they were told that there would be no lesbian marriages in any DC comics... these asshats held a contest where amateur artists were asked to draw Harley Quinn (Joker's bestie) committing suicide naked in a bathtub or if nudity isn't your cup of tea committing suicide in comedic fashion.

 

"It markets them so its OK" or hate crime.

 

I'm putting EPIC DOUCHELORDERY on this one.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

It's pretty obvious what kind of message they're sending out:

"Women are playthings for our amusement."

Doesn't matter if that's not their intention. That's the message I'm reading from their actions. I hope they lose a lot of money.

Edited by Wolf O'Donnell, 09 September 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Selena]

I'm surprised about the Batwoman thing -- they'd made a big deal about greater inclusion of LGBT characters in the last couple years, and various animated DC series had always included tongue-in-cheek references to various heroes not being 100% straight.

 

It's disappointing that DC apparently took that stance toward Batwoman -- although they apparently insist that it's just because they don't want a Bat-family superhero to have a happy personal life. But that seems like nonsense, because other characters have happy relationships. They also did the New-52 hard reboot of the entire superhero continuity right before "Gotham City Sirens" addressed the long-known-but-never-admitted relationship between Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn (which Bruce Timm of Batman the Animated Series fame will apparently acknowledge is a real thing, but won't make any official statements about it, probably due to DC).

 

And speaking of Harley Quinn, holy crap!

 

Absolutely tasteless in every conceivable way. Suicide is nothing to play around with or glamorize. Harley's always been a troubled character, but there'd be massive fallout if she actually gave into her demons and offed herself -- because she'd effectively be "losing" in her greater fight with herself and all her dependency issues. A bad example to comic readers, who are often teens, and thus going through some of the most emotional years of their lives. And that's not even going into the fact that she's a fan favorite.

 

Even if it was meant to purely be a shock-cover, something to get attention but would depict something that "only happened in a dream" or whatever, then it's still in bad taste.

 

Get your shit together, DC.

[Oberon Storm]

Wasn't there an image of Marvel's Elektra with a needle stuck in her arm?

 

I don't know that this is a big deal. We're just talking about a picture. No context around it. I guess that might be bad enough, but I have to ask why are comics not allowd to tackle a serious issue like suicide? What if the image is part of a larger story? They allowed to go into the social issue of homsexuality, but they have to stay away from this?

 

The decision not to allow Batwoman to be married is a bit odd given the direction they have been going, but their stated reason is at least somewhat plausible.

[Sir Deimos]

I think this Harley stuff is being blown out of proportion. Its part of a contest that tells a story. There's nothing that I read saying its for an actual comic. It's just to try and find a comic artist. I think the real issue is oversensativity.

[Selena]

If it were a proper in-depth story that really deals with the character's longtime personal demons, that's one thing. But of all the thousand scenarios they could have used for an open art contest, they pick "draw Harley about to kill herself naked in a bathtub and/or in a comedic way?" Come on. It's in poor taste. They could have used any number of acceptable alternatives.

[DarkJuno]

-ahem-  I know that most people here will discuss how terrible and horrible the actual situations at hand are (and rightfully), but just to point out, these two are pretty much just two sympthoms of DC Management being kinda insane ever since just before the New 52. Lots and lots of bad decisions in a knee jerk reaction for short term success with no thought put into the ramifications it would hold for the future of their IP's, panic stricken actions for the sole purpose of getting movies made because Marvel is doing better then them in that regard with little to no care of how it would affect the actual books, and just general questionable decisions regarding creators. It's probably good they finally stumbled into this controversey since it might make them pause and think about what they're doing.

 

But probably not. The whole Batwoman thing I can guarantee for the most part is nothing about being anti LGBT or anything, it's just DC trying to stick to the status quo and not being willing to change more then they want to whil they're left behind. Let's face it, Kathy and Maggie getting married nowadays wouldn't even be a big deal anymore, but ever since Peter and MJ forgot they were married over in Marvel, they DC itself senselessly broke Lois and Clark up for the New 52 they jsut don't want to hook anyone up permenantly, damned if it makes the characters and/or stories better or worse. Marvel's got issues as well, but DC is a whole not level, but that's not exactly Contro amterial so I'll keep that to myself.

 

As for the Harley thing, that actually sounds like something she would do in-universe and be perfectly in character. Having fan artists use it as a contest though....yeah, yet another stupid decision on DC's part. I'm utterly surprised the Batman "family" writing team let that one through since that's been the one facet of the unvierse that's stayed good - mostly since they all secretly made a deal with each other that they'd ignore the New 52 whenever they could and all the old stuff still counted.

[Hana-Nezumi]

Wasn't there an image of Marvel's Elektra with a needle stuck in her arm?
 
I don't know that this is a big deal. We're just talking about a picture. No context around it. I guess that might be bad enough, but I have to ask why are comics not allowd to tackle a serious issue like suicide? What if the image is part of a larger story? They allowed to go into the social issue of homsexuality, but they have to stay away from this?
 
The decision not to allow Batwoman to be married is a bit odd given the direction they have been going, but their stated reason is at least somewhat plausible.

It's not the suicide scene itself, but the fact that it's trivialized by being part of a CONTEST that's so offensive.

They're not doing it in a way as to "tackle a serious issue"... Quite the opposite. If you look at the contest rules, the intent is actually to make a JOKE of it.
 

Read the following script page and give us your original artistic interpretation of what those four panels should look like on a single page:

PAGE 15

4 panels

PANEL 1
Harley is on top of a building, holding a large DETACHED cellphone tower in her hands as lightning is striking just about everywhere except her tower. She is looking at us like she cannot believe what she is doing. Beside herself. Not happy.

PANEL 2
Harley is sitting in an alligator pond, on a little island with a suit of raw chicken on, rolling her eyes like once again, she cannot believe where she has found herself. We see the alligators ignoring her.

PANEL 3
Harley is sitting in an open whale mouth, tickling the inside of the whales mouth with a feather. She is ecstatic and happy, like this is the most fun ever.

PANEL 4
Harley sitting naked in a bathtub with toasters, blow dryers, blenders, appliances all dangling above the bathtub and she has a cord that will release them all. We are watching the moment before the inevitable death. Her expression is one of oh well, guess thats it for me and she has resigned herself to the moment that is going to happen.

Like DJ, I don't think it's out of character for Harley. Many people might be offended by the humorous depiction of attempted suicide... I'm not by that in itself. But I do think it's inappropriate for it to be a part of a fan-drawn page contest.

Edited by Hana-Nezumi, 09 September 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[JRPomazon]

The new 52 was a stupid, stupid move on DC's part. Decades of stories and developments and they literally just swept it all under the rug so they could go with youthful redesigns and female characters in sexier costume. And just when you think it can't get worse, they manage to surprise you (see Lobo's redesign).

 

That said, I agree with Hana and DJ. The Batwoman issue I'm sure is to keep those characters as miserable as humanly possible. It's just not Gotham without the gloom I suppose and marriage is only thrown in the mix when it's the precursor to something very very sad and tragic. That's how Batman works I guess. As for Harley, I can see why people might be upset but I think it really all stems from her new 52 redesign being kinda slutty. I have a friend who is very involved with that character and was furious when they took Harley's clown suit costume from Batman: TAS to her stipper-esque get up she has now because it was all blatant sex-appeal and nothing of substance. I'm terrified of what "fans" could do with something like that if given the chance.

[Egann]

Really, it's kinda inevitable it would come to something like this. The real problem is that most of the superhero brands are old. REAL old. X-Men is a reasonably young compared to most of the big names, and it just turned fifty. To continue to market old content DC has to shock or surprise people, either by consistently increasing the quality or appealing to the lowest common denominator.

 

Appealing to the lowest common denominator takes less effort, therefore nekked Harley offing herself is...probably inevitable. 

 

Doesn't mean I approve, but I do understand.

[DarkJuno]

I think this is the only time I've psoted twice in a Contro thread.

 

Anyway, Dan Didio addressed it, finally, at a Con over the weekend. I think he's being genuine when he says this and he actually believes it, but it makes no sense. It's still pretty much showing that this is just a greater problem with DC Editorial making abd decisions and stumbling to defend themselves afterwards. It also seems like they just generally dislike any marriages period since as I mentioned before, they broke up Lois and Clark for no real good reason and characters like Animal Man, who're very well known for having happy and loving relationships with a spouse, are suddenly having these awful wrecked homelives that got worse as the New 52 went on. Also, them hiring an openly gay writer to replace the creative team seems like a really, really patronizing move, though at least he's a decent writer from the little I've read of his stuff (The side stories in the first dozen or so Gates of Gotham, for the record).

 

So hey, DC continues to make bad decisions, woohoo.