6 replies to this topic

[Egann]

One of these days I'll start on my 300 topic backlog for S&H forums, but once in a while a topic like this one surges to the front of the list.

 

A doctor from New York City is pioneering the field of reviving people after cardiac arrest. Apparently much conventional wisdom on the subject is wrong. He implies you can revive people several hours after cardiac arrest without brain damage...if you know what you're doing.

 

Back from the Dead.

 

Discuss.

[deep]

I think this guy's past is almost as interesting as the article itself.

 

"When Parnia was a student some 20 years ago, a patient he knew well died under his care. It was a key moment for the young doctor, who has since sought to understand and fight the process of death."

 

This is the kind of a backstory an intrepid novel hero has. Or Viktor Frankenstein.

 

"We may have injectable drugs that slow the process of cell death in the brain and other organs. It is possible that in 20 years, we may be able to restore people to life 12 hours or maybe even 24 hours after they have died."

 

While the article appears to be largely conjecture toward marginal improvements by a doc with a grudge against death, he is correct that we are understanding more and more about cell death. I read an article recently that researchers were able to physically watch the slow, creeping biochemical process of cell death by isolating and highlighting a certain by-product chemical.

 

All Parnia appears to be saying is that in the future, there's a good chance we'll be able to inject a patient whose heart has stopped with an injectable that tells the body, "Woah, hold on pardner." I don't know how he plans for us to get better at the physical act of resuscitation once we've bought more time, though.

 

edit: I think we all could potentially have an entirely different and equally as rewarding discussion regarding NDEs that gets hidden on page 2. I like that this guy is 'testing' NDEs by putting familiar objects in a room of the people he hopes to save to see if they remember it or not. That's... fascinating.

 

And the interview question, "Are you some sort of a magician?" is fantastic and I had to double-check that I wasn't reading some doofy conspiracy blog and that this actually is Der Spiegel.

Edited by deep, 31 July 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Selena]

He's not exactly the first medical professional to question the finality of death. I've read articles here and there about how kicking the bucket isn't quite as permanent as everyone believes. Parts of the brain stay active long after the patient has supposedly died, for example. Then, of course, the article here points out that people can still be revived hours after they would have otherwise officially been "dead." Clinical death is kind of like your brain having the worst BSOD ever, but your hardware is still mostly okay (presuming your cause of death isn't 'mauled by a bear'). Our problem is finding the proper way to reboot everything before the hardware begins to decompose. If you can halt the breakdown of tissues, and if you figure out the proper techniques to restart the human body, death is theoretically not that big of a deal.

 

Couple this with scientists who are trying to discover the secrets of aging -- along with how to stop it -- and death may no longer be a "thing" in a couple centuries or so. At least outside of freak accidents.

 

Being able to circumvent death, or being able to bring people back from "death," does raise quite a number of philosophical and spiritual questions, though.

[Steel Samurai]

Not to mention social questions. Increasing lifespans and new medical possibilities like this suggest we will need to rethink our "work forty-fifty years then retire" social system.

[deep]

To be entirely fair, medicine in this realm won't really increase lifespan either more. And scientists and researchers have never claimed to be able to extend life using this medicine. This guy just resuscitates. And his focus is on medicine that can halt premature cell-death.

 

Aging breaks down multiple systems simultaneously, and its not something medicine or science has been able to reverse. But this guy knows how to restart a prematurely stopped heart.

[Egann]

The thing I found most interesting in the article was actually his note that too much oxygen can actually cause the brain to shut itself off. Yet another example of your body doing the last thing you'd think.

 

I actually wonder about how this could combine with stem cell therapy. I suppose it's possible if you can revive the body for you to put someone into a recuperative coma and hold them there until stem cell therapy can repair something. Set up like that, you could recover from some incredible wounds or medical emergencies. It would just be a matter of waiting for the body to recover.

 

It also suggests we're getting closer to putting someone in suspended animation, but that's another matter. 

[Steel Samurai]

To be entirely fair, medicine in this realm won't really increase lifespan either more. And scientists and researchers have never claimed to be able to extend life using this medicine. This guy just resuscitates. And his focus is on medicine that can halt premature cell-death.

 

Aging breaks down multiple systems simultaneously, and its not something medicine or science has been able to reverse. But this guy knows how to restart a prematurely stopped heart.

 

It won't increase maximum lifespan, but it will increase average lifespan. Less people dying prematurely, lifespan goes up, more old people, greater pressure on current social models. It's also not out of the question that reversing or halting cell death could be used to keep alive people who undergo age-correlated medical emergencies such as strokes or heart attacks.

 

I'm all for everyone living longer, as long as that corresponds with lowered reproduction rates and an increase in the length of time someone is productive. I personally plan to work in one fashion or another as long as I am physically and mentally capable performing my duties. It is unfortunate that the ideal retirement age is also the age at which an individual has gained enough life wisdom to be of possibly incalculable aid as an advisor, even if they do not have the physical faculties to perform all the functions a younger person might. (obviously this is not true across the board, but there are fewer old fools than young fools)[/rant]