9 replies to this topic

[Selena]

 

So, since the news is still mostly dominated by the NSA kerfuffle, let's take a look at a smaller but possibly dividing case up in the good state of Minnesota.

 

Basically, it was discovered that a 94 year old man in Minnesota used to be a Nazi officer -- one who was supposedly guilty of war crimes in WWII. He's been living there since the end of the war, has a family, no longer shoots at people, and leads a normal life. But now that the secret's out, everyone's in a shocked uproar.

 

http://www.boston.co...Fh0I/story.html

 

The question is: Should we give a fuck about this kind of thing anymore?

 

 

Arguments for not giving a fuck:

• The guy's 94. He's going to die within a couple years no matter what happens.
• The Third Reich fell almost 70 years ago.
• He hasn't caused any trouble since he's been here.
• Everybody in WWII was kind of a murderous bastard when it came to civilians (see: Dresden/Nagasaki/Hiroshima/etc.).

 

Arguments for giving a fuck:

• He lied to sneak into the US
• He's been "enjoying American privileges" all that time because he lied.
• Uhh.... he was a Nazi?
• And technically never faced justice for his various actions during the war.

 

 

The stakes: He could possibly be shipped back to Germany to face trial for war crimes.

[Doctor Pogo]

Wow.

 

There's no statute of limitations on war crimes, but at this point, I have to wonder if it even matters.  And it's not like he's 'getting away with it' anymore.  From the quotes in the article from his friends and neighbors, it looks like the rest of his life is going to be a lot more difficult.  Apparently even his kids don't really know (despite the memoir he published?  I'm confused about that), so all those lies are going to be coming back home to roost now.

 

Rather than cart him off to Europe to be tried by strangers, it sounds like he'll get plenty of punishment just being left to live at home with the people he knows.

 

I generally believe in 'live and let live,' and in this case I think that serves both ends.

[Egann]

This case probably calls for the Inglorious Basterd solution: If you're going to do anything, cut a swastika on his forehead and be done with it. What else are you going to do?

[TheAvengerLever]

It was a long time ago and he hasn't caused trouble, and I don't think he should be hated just for being a Nazi. However, if he is a war criminal (and not all Nazis are war criminals) then justice should be brought down on him for whatever it is he did in the past.

[Steel Samurai]

I pretty much agree with Button.

[J-Roc]

It was a long time ago and he hasn't caused trouble, and I don't think he should be hated just for being a Nazi. However, if he is a war criminal (and not all Nazis are war criminals) then justice should be brought down on him for whatever it is he did in the past.

 
Its going to be damn near impossible to determine that at this point, don't you think?

EDIT: Thanks for the BB clip, Lena, that's classic!

Edited by Sharpy, 16 June 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Sir Deimos]

Does it matter at this point? The man is almost dead. Whether he is guilty or not his neighbors are going to treat him as if he were. I think that is punishment enough for the short time left to him.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Oh, it's this old chestnut, is it?



At first, I thought it didn't really matter. Lots of people in Germany were Nazis. The article, however, did say he was a Leader of an SS Unit that was known to have committed atrocities. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to put him on trial. That is the point of a country that obeys the Rule of Law, isn't it?

[Veteran]

I would care somewhat if he wasn't shipped back to Germany. Well, care insofar as I care about anything political, which isn't much. Basically I'm of the ilk that it's impossible to be prejudiced against Nazis.

 

He ought to already be on a plane to the fatherland right now.

 

Fuck Nazis.

 

[/intellectual argument]

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT - just realised my [/intellectual argument] remark looks like sarcasm. It's not. I'm just acknowledging that my stance is simplistic.

Edited by Veteran, 16 June 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[arunma]

 

So, since the news is still mostly dominated by the NSA kerfuffle, let's take a look at a smaller but possibly dividing case up in the good state of Minnesota.

 

Basically, it was discovered that a 94 year old man in Minnesota used to be a Nazi officer -- one who was supposedly guilty of war crimes in WWII. He's been living there since the end of the war, has a family, no longer shoots at people, and leads a normal life. But now that the secret's out, everyone's in a shocked uproar.

 

http://www.boston.co...Fh0I/story.html

 

The question is: Should we give a fuck about this kind of thing anymore?

 

 

Arguments for not giving a fuck:

• The guy's 94. He's going to die within a couple years no matter what happens.
• The Third Reich fell almost 70 years ago.
• He hasn't caused any trouble since he's been here.
• Everybody in WWII was kind of a murderous bastard when it came to civilians (see: Dresden/Nagasaki/Hiroshima/etc.).

 

Arguments for giving a fuck:

• He lied to sneak into the US
• He's been "enjoying American privileges" all that time because he lied.
• Uhh.... he was a Nazi?
• And technically never faced justice for his various actions during the war.

 

 

The stakes: He could possibly be shipped back to Germany to face trial for war crimes.

 

Yeah probably those last two points in the case FOR giving a fuck are the most important ones.  We have to realize here that justice isn't all about practicality.  A guy who killed another guy awhile ago but has been on good behavior since then still needs to be punished.  "Seeing justice done" isn't just about utilitarianism and keeping the public safe from violent people.  Otherwise white collar criminals would never get locked away.  We want these guys to get punished.

 

That said, do we really want to punish this guy to begin with?  From what I can tell he was part of a Nazi unit that burned villages.  He didn't actually gas Jews (i.e. the sort of thing that makes us all go into shock), he only attacked civilians.  I say "only" because the US government does that right now, albeit in smaller amounts.  Seems a bit hypocritical to punish this guy.

 

Oh, and let me add that the "punishment" would be limited to deportation for lying on his immigration application.  From the news articles I read, it doesn't look as though he'd actually get thrown in jail for war crimes.  So yeah...

I sort of have to ask, "doesn't Uncle Sam have something better to do with my tax dollars?"