18 replies to this topic

[SL the Pyro]

http://www.smh.com.a...0811-1iodu.html

...Okay. Normally I'd have a long-winded introductory rant when posting in Contro, but I quite honestly have no words for this. So I'll just open up the floor immediately: your thoughts?

[Nevermind]

To be honest, I don't know if it's really a necessary thing. As far as I'm aware there aren't any other married muppets on the show, so I'm not sure if these two need to be either. It seems like something more to satisfy the adult community, rather than anything to do with the children who actually watch the show. Like one of the quotes mentioned, petitions for gay marriage should be put towards the community and the government who runs the country, not a children's television show. I don't agree that it would "sexualise" the kids but I feel it might just go way over their heads anyway. You want kids growing up with the idea of gay marriages being a natural thing, then change the legislation so they grow up in that world, not just watch puppets do it.

[Oberon Storm]

I liked the last quote from a Mr Maupin on twitter.

"The folks who fret that a wedding between Bert and Ernie would "sexualize" a kids' show were remarkably silent about a frog porking a pig.

I really wouldn't care if those two particular characters were to get married. I only ask if there shouldn't be an actual relationship beyond friendship established first. When I was a kid I never saw it as anything more than that. Maybe I just didn't know any better. Then again, while I haven't actually watched Sesame Street since grade school, I fail to see anything beyond friendship now. I fail to see anything even remotely ambiguous. Would suddenly throwing these two into a marriage without any context not confuse kids moreso than just gay marriage.

I'm willing to give kids a lot of credit on this. I think they're smart enough to handle gay marriage. Introducing a gay or lesbian couple wouldn't be a bad idea. I just don't think forcing the producers of the show to do it through a petition like this or even any type legal action is a good one. This should be something the producers decide on for themselves.

[Fëanen]

I agree with the spirit of this, but not the specifics. I think marrying Bert and Ernie would imply that if two guys are good friends, they must be gay. Should Sesame Street create a gay character (and really, I don't think children's programming is there yet, at least in America) it should be somebody new, not shoehorning slash fic ideas on decades-old characters.

Edited by Fëanen, 11 August 2011 - 07:57 AM.

[Egann]

This boils down to being so eager to accept homosexuality we would cut off our nose to spite our face. Yes, this is very, very, wrong, and I'm not talking "Eggy's going into another hamster-shit homo-hate rant." Oh, no. The reasons here are ENTIRELY pragmatic.

First, this sets a dangerous precedent. Bert an Ernie are fictional characters, so one way or another--married or not--we are looking at a conscious decision of the creators. What's more, this is a children's show, and homosexual marriage is a political hot-button issue. A conscious decision to include something politically and socially volatile children in their formative years will be watching? This suddenly gives me an eerie reminder of Brave New World and social programming because it gives the government and content-providers a direct avenue to circumnavigate parental consent and implant values in children directly. That is a very, VERY dangerous precedent.

Second, from my point of view the gay marriage issue boils down to homosexuals want (for pragmatic reasons) to get married, fundamentalists had an allergic reaction to the thought because they understood marriage as a sacred oath and this would effect the (secular) civil government claiming authority over the sacred....and rather than trying to back off and get their pragmatic concessions a different way, gay marriage supporters insisted and this all became an issue about a word. Both sides are guilty of being petulant and petty, but in the end that insistence makes the one side rabble-rousers. When I see petty rable-rousers make a move to polarize a children's show, I see an attempt to weaponize children against parents. I think it's intentional retribution, but even if it's not, even if this is entirely "a matter of good role models for children," this will mean homosexual marriage will be socially accepted while the fundamentalists who oppose it are alienated, their concerns ignored, their beliefs reproved. And as someone who sees at the core of their position a valid point being countered by an appeal to emotion, I find that very, very frightening.

Now, being accepting and tolerant is all well and good, but when you go about being accepting of one group by reprobating another, you're going about being accepting wrong.

The final problem is that it will actually increase our already intense cultural schism. Fundamentalist parents will take this as the last straw, mope even more about how the world hates them and how God will come to rapture them away while the rest of the world burns...and unplug the TV.

Edited by Egann, 11 August 2011 - 09:29 AM.

[SOAP]

I doubt this petition will get far. I find it slightly amusing but I'm sure the creators of the show are smart enough to know this would be a bad idea for so many reasons.

[Reflectionist]

This boils down to being so eager to accept homosexuality we would cut off our nose to spite our face. Yes, this is very, very, wrong, and I'm not talking "Eggy's going into another hamster-shit homo-hate rant." Oh, no. The reasons here are ENTIRELY pragmatic.

The more I read this post, the more I wanted to become a vehement proponent of Gay Marriage just so I could watch you squirm while giving a ("non") hate rant for entirely "pragmatic" reasons. Because it's totally not a hate rant, guys! I REALLY DON'T HATE GAY PEOPLE. I just really think life would be more efficient if they'd all go die, or stop existing. Someone should kill ALL the gays. That's not hate, that's simple math. That's pragmatism.

RIGHT. Not buying it.

Can we put one of these at the top of your posts:

[Sir Turtlelot]

I doubt that it will actually happen, but I don't see why not, honestly. Hell, compared to some of the other changes they've done to the show, this one wouldn't really bother me any.

THAT'S RIGHT SESAME STREET, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE COOKIE MONSTER AND OSCAR!

EDIT: Actually, I would like to see that change. Even if they just introduced new characters who were gay (or lesbian), I would actually like that. To me, it would be an attempt to teach children that there is nothing wrong with being gay, something isn't seen enough in this day and age.

Edited by Sir Turtlelot, 11 August 2011 - 11:18 AM.

[deep]

No no no no no, no no no, no no no no. I am 100% pro gay marriage, but this is stupid.

The whole Bert & Ernie being gay thing began as a joke and still is a joke. This is the equivalent of petitioning Akira Toriyama to ink a few more DBZ episodes where Goku and Vegeta get married because they're the focus of far too much yaoi.

Edit to Turtlelot's edit: Yeah, if the creators themselves introduced openly gay characters, that would be a different story. Pandering to fanfic is entirely different.

Edited by DevilPaladin, 11 August 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[Egann]

This boils down to being so eager to accept homosexuality we would cut off our nose to spite our face. Yes, this is very, very, wrong, and I'm not talking "Eggy's going into another hamster-shit homo-hate rant." Oh, no. The reasons here are ENTIRELY pragmatic.

The more I read this post, the more I wanted to become a vehement proponent of Gay Marriage just so I could watch you squirm while giving a ("non") hate rant for entirely "pragmatic" reasons. Because it's totally not a hate rant, guys! I REALLY DON'T HATE GAY PEOPLE. I just really think life would be more efficient if they'd all go die, or stop existing. Someone should kill ALL the gays. That's not hate, that's simple math. That's pragmatism.

RIGHT. Not buying it.

Can we put one of these at the top of your posts:

Prolly about accurate, but then again I just wanted to slip hamster-shit homo hate in somehow. Besides, I'm just as critical of the thoughtless sticks in the mud as I am with the troublesome sodomizers.

....That probably didn't help my case in avoiding "U HAZ HATE"....



Take a look at how Lotus is wanting to stop all in-app purchases for Apple's app store because "we have a vaguely worded patent for it." I believe the phrase was "a nuisance patent settlement." It basically boils down to extortion and now Lotsus wants to make money. Compare that to how patents were INTENDED to work and how Samsung/ Apple recent patent wars went down; "I have a patent for this, and you're my competitor, so I don't want you to do it at all." People have always known extortion was a real risk for patent/ copyright laws, but we've ignored it because, until software design cane into the picture, it wasn't really a concern, Just because the slippery slope is a fallacy doesn't mean it's not a real phenomenon. It just means it's not a logical certainty. Considering how precedents work in court...it's almost like it was intended to become a real-world example of the slippery slope.

[Selena]

This is silly. Sesame Street - of all things - shouldn't become a platform for politics, no matter what those politics may be.

Nobody on that show is "married," as far as I can remember. Relationships aren't a focal point at all. Even in the Muppets, which is still a far cry from Sesame Street, most relationships just "are." Having Bert and Ernie get married would feel like a forced "look at us we're so liberal and politically correct!" movement. Just let them be who they are and always have been. Don't force it.

[canas is back]

I always thought they were brothers, in the way black people mean it, which I feel is a lot closer.

[JRPomazon]

Everything I would have said has already been said. The idea of having Bert and Ernie get married seems like it's a bit much.

[Kisseena]

I think it's a bit silly, too. I always thought Bert & Ernie were really good friends, since when does that mean they're gay? Sesame Street is an educational show where you learn your ABC's and 123's, not a show where characters get married.

From what I remember, there weren't any romantic relationships on Sesame Street, what makes this any different? .__.

Unless the show introduces ANY type of romantic relationship, this is just silly, and it probably will never happen.

[Emiko]

I would sign <----Just because it IS silly lol

Edited by Kawaii Emiko, 11 August 2011 - 05:35 PM.

[Hana-Nezumi]

Making a petition about this is stupid. Officially, Bert and Ernie are just good friends. Honestly, I do believe there has been subtext. I think they are implied to be closer than just friends. But it has never been talked about and never will, because it's Sesame Street! Sheesh!

I think it's a bit silly, too. I always thought Bert & Ernie were really good friends, since when does that mean they're gay? Sesame Street is an educational show where you learn your ABC's and 123's, not a show where characters get married.

From what I remember, there weren't any romantic relationships on Sesame Street, what makes this any different? .__.

Unless the show introduces ANY type of romantic relationship, this is just silly, and it probably will never happen.

Oscar has a girlfriend named Grundgetta, and The Count has had a few Countesses over the years.

[Emiko]

Plus, if they do that then they will have to give Bugs his surgery he deserved for years.

[Hana-Nezumi]

Nah, Bugs isn't a transsexual, just an avid crossdresser.

[deep]

I always thought they were brothers, in the way black people mean it, which I feel is a lot closer.

Is this from Zoolander? This might be the whitest thing I ever read.

[Emiko]

Nah, Bugs isn't a transsexual, just an avid crossdresser.

lol, true I just thought it was funny

[JRPomazon]

I always thought they were brothers, in the way black people mean it, which I feel is a lot closer.

Is this from Zoolander? This might be the whitest thing I ever read.

I'd be damned if it wasn't.

[deep]

I love you for finding me that so quickly JRP.

[SOAP]

Put the earmuffs on the cookie!

[canas is back]

ooh we have some winners, an equally silly quote to an equally silly petition. (imo

[SnowsilverKat]

They're puppets. They don't have a sexual orientation. I think Steve Whitmire, who performs Ernie now, once said it best: "They don't have anything from the waist down."

I'm all for the equality of marriage and everything, but this petition is just goofy.

[Quistis]

Am I the only one who thought they were brothers (as in siblings)?

[SOAP]

Am I the only one who thought they were brothers (as in siblings)?

Am I the only one who thought they were room mates? I know novel idea and all.

[CID Farwin]

This is IRL trolling, plain and simple. The only reason for this is to stir up controversy, to make the far right homophobically riled up so the far left can turn this into an 'equality issue', thus enforcing a marriage between two fictional characters on a children's show whose relationship isn't even fully defined. (are they bros? literal brothers? cousins? friends? roommates? an item? If I can't figure it out, what hope is there for our toddlers?) Seriously, this whole thing feels like one giant forum thread (which is odd, considering I'm posting this on one.) There is no precedence for this. Last I checked, Bert and Ernie didn't even share a bed!



I find this offensive, not because of homophobic reasons (I got over those a long time ago. Pretty sure LA helped with that =D ) but because it enforces the idea that any two people who know each other past a casual acquaintance suddenly have to be 'together.' Honestly, when did people start taking the shippers seriously?

Am I the only one who thought they were brothers (as in siblings)?

I did. It still kinda hurts my brain to think that they aren't.

[arunma]

You know it's funny. When I was a kid watching Sesame Street, the thought never occured to me that the two were gay. OK, so I didn't know what gays were. But even once I dd, I never went back and thought "Bert and Ernie are gay!" One might say that two guys living together and sleeping in the same room have to be gay. But I'm going to call BS on this; college undergrads do that in the dorms all the time. Are dorms gay?

I don't think that this is significantly different than the whole contoversy with the HIV positive muppet (I think this only showed up in Sesame Street in Africa). There's no need to expose kids to something like this at such an early age. If you wanted to randomly introduce a couple of guys who are married, I don't see the problem. But to show a budding romance and the subsequent butt sex between two established characters? Come on, that's just not wht Sesame Street is about.

[SOAP]

Are dorms gay?

Weeeeeelllllllllll....

It's definately gay porn material.