Jump to content

IPBoard Styles©Fisana

Photo

Elven's Poetry


  • Please log in to reply
4 replies to this topic

#1 Elvenlord

Elvenlord

    BBBFF

  • Members
  • 2,790 posts
  • Location:Polis
  • Gender:Male
  • Russia

Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:33 AM

So yeah. I've heard nothing but praise for my poetry, and I want to know if it's that good, everyone is being nice, or they have no idea what's going on :P

Here's one:

The Shadow

A man rises above the crowd
Adored by all
Ruler of all right and good
Raising his hand, the people cheer

Now, one year later
Sitting at his desk
Hands clenching his head
Many problems strewn across the table

Laying his overwhelmed mind
Upon the table, he thinks
One little nap
Will not hurt

As he dreams, a slight
Shadow strides gracefully to
The man and his desk
Reads one paper, writes one sentence

Waking, the man sees no
Shadow, but spies a paper
On the desk. A genius I
Must be, to write in sleep, he thinks

The following day, standing before
The crowd, he reads his solution
As slight shadow stands
Behind the curtains
Smiling

#2 Doctor Pogo

Doctor Pogo

    mr. wisp

  • Members
  • 510 posts
  • Location:Domesticated
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:18 PM

Poetry is so many things to so many people. It's hard to clearly criticize it in an objective manner. I can say that a certain style is more accepted by the literary community, or a certain style is more popular, but that doesn't make either of them something you should do with your own work. Of course, trying on things as an exercise is excellent practice, but your work is yours and it should please you.

What I mean to say is, take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Several, if you like. Season to taste. I'm coming from my own writing perspective, and my advice is subjective to the way that I write.

I like the idea of this poem. It's a neat conceit, and there's mystery enough in it. But I find it hard to get a charge off of, emotionally or stylistically. Here's some thoughts as to why that is, for me:

1. Language. The writing is fine, and the structure is fine. Your mechanics are there (a word about punctuation, though - either do it or don't. If you're going to use it, use it uniformly and correctly throughout the poem. If you're going to leave some out, leave it all out). The words themselves, though... the words just seem... generic. You are dealing in sweeping strokes: "A man rises above the crowd;" "Ruler of all right and good;" "Many problems strewn...;" "The man and his desk;" etc. These are very unspecific statements. There are no details, no colors, no textures, shapes or sizes; the man, the crowd, the problems, all are a blank slate.

Poetry is in the details. Not factual details or plot details, but stimulation details. Plot is for stories. Facts are for scientists. Poetry is in taking those bits of information and touching them and smelling them and showing them to people. You've got the outline of the piece here, what you want to say, and it's cool, so the next revision will be to show it, make it happen on the page without having to explain it. For example, the second stanza:

Now, one year later
Sitting at his desk
Hands clenching his head
Many problems strewn across the table

I went straight for the second stanza because the first could probably be omitted completely. It's purely informational, except for the last line, which we'll keep. We can include the information in the second stanza without needing the exposition. The first real tangible action in the poem is in this stanza, "Sitting at his desk / Hands clenching his head." This is a good place to start. If he's at his desk, we can infer that he's sitting, so that's one word gone. Let's replace it with some of the expository information I cut out before, in a concise way:

He raised a hand, they cheered.
A year in, at his desk,
Hands clenching his head,
Many problems strewn across the table,

The expository goals of the original first stanza are still accomplished; now it just happens in the reader's mind instead of having it explained to them. I like the line "Hands clenching his head." It's a good phrase. It has a nice series of 'h' and 'c' sounds that feel good, and it's active: I know the action, and can feel the knuckles at my temples. The last line is both plain and necessary, though. "Many problems" is very unspecific and not evocative of anything. It's not very original, either. What the problems are is not really relevant, though, so we need to find a different way to accomplish the goal. Thesaurus time. Also, is it a desk or a table? If it's a table, then the geography becomes a little unclear. If it's a desk, then there's no need to say it again. I'll assume it's the desk you're talking about. So we can strike that word, and here's the result:

He raised a hand, they cheered.
A year in, at his desk,
Hands clenching his head,
Paper headaches strewn around him,

I stuck the word 'problems' into thesaurus.com and read a bunch of entries, and the word headaches stuck out to me as being connected to the action, clenching his head. The problems seem to involve a mess of papers, and you use paper specifically later, so it was a natural descriptor, and the phrase "paper headaches" is more evocative, more specific, and creates the intended scene for the reader.

Just an example. That's how my revision process works. Yours will vary.

2. Enjambment. I think the poem could flow a little better from line to line, stanza to stanza. Right now it reads like a paragraph of prose chopped up into lines. The lines are mostly end-stopped, at the ends of phrases where punctuation would be (and should be). Try to spring a few more surprises in there. Enjambment often gets used as a substitute for punctuation, and it isn't that at all, it serves different purposes: it can highlight a word or phrase by giving it its own space; it creates the visual picture of the poem on the page; and it changes the speed and intensity with which the poem is read. A poem with lots of short lines and enjambed phrases encourages a breathless and fast read, where a poem with long lines and complete phrases encourages a stately and steady pace.

I like the splits at "slight / Shadow" and "no / Shadow:" they put the emphasis on the word Shadow, and drag me into the next line.

3. Meter. Part of what makes this piece seem more like prose than prosody is the pacing of the lines. I feel like it wants to be a steady, even, and flowing, and less like conversational speech. The way to do this is to watch your rhythms. I'm not saying you have to be in trochaic hexameter or something, or even worry about that, but listen to your phrases out loud, hear where the pauses and breaths are, and where the long and short words are, and you'll hear where a line needs to hold a little longer, or where an awkward mass of syllables are.


Woo. Didn't mean to write a book there. I guess I like to hear myself talk.

It's a good poem, your friends and other previous readers are not wrong. Criticism is what you will have it be. I hope I said something at least mildly constructive and useful to you. Thanks for sharing your work!

#3 Elvenlord

Elvenlord

    BBBFF

  • Members
  • 2,790 posts
  • Location:Polis
  • Gender:Male
  • Russia

Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:43 PM

I definitely see what you're saying about details. I was more or less trying to do a sweeping kind of thing (I think, this is from months ago :P ), but I think it would benefit from more details.
Though I do like telling mini-stories in my poems, so I'll have to see if there's a way I can make the first stanza more relevant.

Enjambment is my best friend, I'm saddened to be mistreated it so ;d
Anyways, I think part of my problem is that I have a set idea in my mind how long a line should be. It's not based on anything besides how long it looks compared to the others :P

Meter: Oh god I hate meter. Not because I dislike it, but because I'm totally incapable of doing it. I'll give it a shot though.

Thanks. Oh, and I definitely meant to have a semi-not-very-hidden-meaning in there, and somewhat surprisingly I got a couple different interpretations. What do you think of it?

#4 Egann

Egann

    The Right Stuff

  • Banned
  • 4,170 posts
  • Location:Georgia
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 December 2010 - 08:05 PM

I'm not a poetry expert. disordinated takes the cake for that. But I do have some informal Rhetoric training I can use.

He raised a hand, they cheered.
A year in, at his desk,
Hands clenching his head,
Many problems strewn across the table,


While I do like disordinated's "Paper headaches," the original "problems" is synecdoche, where the part stands in for the whole (in this case, the "problem" stands in for it being paperwork in the first place.)

Usually I rely on instinct to guide me, and that appears to be what you've done here, too. But that's for prose. You might find it helpful to glance over a rhetoric dictionary right before you write (or re-write; I'm unsure of the poetic creative process) so that the possibilities of things you can do other than "just spit it out" are fresh in your mind. I'll wager you'll find it and a rhyming dictionary as important for poetry as I find the thesaurus and dictionary for prose.

On the other hand, you might just know all of this already.....

Edited by Egann, 01 December 2010 - 08:06 PM.


#5 Elvenlord

Elvenlord

    BBBFF

  • Members
  • 2,790 posts
  • Location:Polis
  • Gender:Male
  • Russia

Posted 13 July 2014 - 02:15 AM

Holy necro Batman!

 

Anyway, I wrote this one while I was out in the field doing geology work in Nevada. It actually rhymes. What.

 

 

 

Atop the mountains highs

Gilded white in snow

Far from city cries

There you shall go

 

Tower of rock and stone

Gazing out on endless peaks

Forever shall it stand alone

Like a secret castle keep

 

Listen, listen to the call

The song of lonely peace

High on mountain tall

To soft wind's piece

 

Feel of wind blowing

Carelessly through your hair

Warmth of sun glowing

Lifting your every care

 

So listen, listen for the call

Give attention, pay heed

To the calling of mountain tall

And live without need

 

 

 

Reading it again, this is kinda all over the place. It's been awhile since I wrote anything, and even longer anything in rhyme, even so simple a one.






Copyright © 2025 Zelda Legends