20 replies to this topic

[Person]

Top Five Classic Aspects That Need to Return

I love how every entry on the list seems to have a sort of "Well, this has been in X and Y games, but it still needs to be brought back!"

5. The original overworld theme: Has been in every Zelda except OoT. This needs to be brought back how? It never went missing!
4. Towns: Specifically, the towns of AoL as viewed through nostalgia goggles. Again, the article makes it seem like towns have somehow been absent from the games when they never left.
3. Vast Overworld: Article actually concedes that TP gave this to us, but then says it doesn't count because it was "empty." What game was the author playing? Apparently every square inch of territory must be populated by hordes of enemies in order for the overworld to count as "vast."
2. The Triforce: While i could understand one being disappointed at the relatively small role it played in TP, the example he uses is TWW, where it was a major plot point and focus of the entire third act of the game.
1. Beamblade: While most of us just call this one "sword beam," it again neglects the fact that it's kind of been in all but four of the installments in the series. Including the most recent one.

So aside from my whining about this article, let me spin off a discussion about actual neglected elements you'd like to see in a newer Zelda game. For one, I'd like to see more of Gleeok. I was just ecstatic to fight him in PH, and would like to see him become something of a recurring boss like Gohma and Dodongo are already.

[SOAP]

I actually would be interested in seeing the sword beam being implementing in a 3D game.

I don't think there's anything classic that has been lost, just that most of these seem to limited to the 2D games (which makes sense) whereas the 3D games have their own take on the series. An when has Zelda had vast overworlds prior to TP? The only one I can of is possibly AoL, which was basically a world map.

What I personally think should come back is more nonlinearity where you beat the game in basically any order you wish. We haven't had a game like that since the original LoZ.

[Person]

I actually would be interested in seeing the sword beam being implementing in a 3D game.

I don't think there's anything classic that has been lost, just that most of these seem to limited to the 2D games (which makes sense) whereas the 3D games have their own take on the series. An when has Zelda had vast overworlds prior to TP? The only one I can of is possibly AoL, which was basically a world map.

What I personally think should come back is more nonlinearity where you beat the game in basically any order you wish. We haven't had a game like that since the original LoZ.

ALttP and OoT had elements of nonlinearity, where as soon as you got certain items the world was a sandbox. But reintroducing that nonlinearity would make some of the dungeon designs too samey and make dungeon items useless outside of their original dungeons (the main problem with TP in my opinion). This would be because all dungeons would have to be tailored to make sure you could beat them without most of the items, making item acquisition almost pointless. Sword beam in 3D would work maybe, but it would kind of be pointless what with arrows and all. Unless the classic "full health" clause is added to it. Using it based on magic would kind of make it broken and a replacement for other ranged weapons.

[Nevermind]

Fierce Deity Link got a sword beam. The townships are fairly limited in comparison with the older games but I'd put that down to just technology limits. The 2D platforms could simply process more content. If the Wii was sporting PS3 or 360 gear, then you'd have quite the overworld. Shadow of the Colossus world populated with Zelda towns and enemies roaming all over is probably what that author is looking for.

[Person]

I doubt he was going for SotC. That game had few enemies apart from the bosses. His complaint about the "vastness" of TP's overworld was that it wasn't packed with enemies like the 2D overworlds were. I think this is a bit absurd considering that certain portions of Hyrule Field in TP are littered with Bulblin snipers, Kargaroks, and other enemies. This is far more than the Peahats and Stalchildren-only overworld of OoT. Compared to TP, OoT's overworld was absolutely barren.

I noticed he also listed "overworld puzzles" as an element that needed to be brought back. I don't recall any significant puzzles in the classic games in the overworld. Those are a relatively recent addition. In particular, around half of ST's stations are puzzle-oriented, and there were some block-pushing and owl statue puzzles in TP's overworld.

My main beef with this article is that it seems to be complaining about the absence of something that hasn't been gone in the first place.

[Fin]

He was probably thinking of the way most screens on Link's Awakening and the Oracle games contained obstacles that required specific items to get around. Personally, I found those obstacles irritating, since they forced me to enter the item screen every two seconds when I just want to get from A to B. Enemies are much better overworld obstacles. If puzzles are needed, they should stay solved when done once.

[Average Gamer]

Similar to what Person said about Gleeok, I'd like to see Blind return. He was one of the few bosses in the NES/SNES days to have a history, dialogue, and some interaction with Link aside from a battle. In addition to his memorable maiden disguise, he was a legitimately difficult boss. He was also a thief, making the series seem deeper as Ganondorf wasn't the only notable one. Another thing that could be important is the fact that Blind's original hideout was in Kakariko. Seeing as how OoT revealed that Kakariko had a gruesome history, Nintendo could flesh out Blind by connecting him to the darkness of the town if he was ever reintroduced.

Edited by Average Gamer, 17 May 2010 - 04:12 AM.

[SOAP]

I actually would be interested in seeing the sword beam being implementing in a 3D game.

I don't think there's anything classic that has been lost, just that most of these seem to limited to the 2D games (which makes sense) whereas the 3D games have their own take on the series. An when has Zelda had vast overworlds prior to TP? The only one I can of is possibly AoL, which was basically a world map.

What I personally think should come back is more nonlinearity where you beat the game in basically any order you wish. We haven't had a game like that since the original LoZ.

ALttP and OoT had elements of nonlinearity, where as soon as you got certain items the world was a sandbox. But reintroducing that nonlinearity would make some of the dungeon designs too samey and make dungeon items useless outside of their original dungeons (the main problem with TP in my opinion). This would be because all dungeons would have to be tailored to make sure you could beat them without most of the items, making item acquisition almost pointless. Sword beam in 3D would work maybe, but it would kind of be pointless what with arrows and all. Unless the classic "full health" clause is added to it. Using it based on magic would kind of make it broken and a replacement for other ranged weapons.

Aren't most Zelda dungeons now tailored to only need the item you get in that particular dungeon anyways? At least that's one complaint I hear so if that's true, there's no need for the dungeons to be beaten in a particular order. If not well, there's two ways that to get around that. The easiest way is to make items that get the most use (bow and arrow, bombs, ect) already available before you start any dungeon, but make them very expensive. Give the player some choice in the matter: Either cough up some major rupees (by beating field enemies, spending hours uprooting grass or lifting rocks, or do sidequests for NPC in exchange for cash) and get all the basic required inventory from the start or take the time to exactly beat the dungeon get the item for free. The second way around is also about choices. Make it so there's more than one way to beat the dungeon. A longer, more enemy-filled basic route as well as several puzzle orientated shortcuts tailored to specific items.

And Laz you're right. I forgot about Feirce Deity's sword. Shame on me.

Edited by SOAP, 17 May 2010 - 11:16 PM.

[Person]

So maybe have most of the dungeons be accessible with only the bow and boomerang? That's similar to how OoT had it. You only needed the hookshot and bow to access most everything.

[SOAP]

So maybe have most of the dungeons be accessible with only the bow and boomerang? That's similar to how OoT had it. You only needed the hookshot and bow to access most everything.

No. I never said cut down on the amount of items needed. Just mix things up a bit change how they're available,

[Fizzbit]

So maybe have most of the dungeons be accessible with only the bow and boomerang? That's similar to how OoT had it. You only needed the hookshot and bow to access most everything.

Hoverboots were pretty essential from Shadow Temple onwards, too.

[CID Farwin]

Alright, let's look at what they say.

5:It’s true this theme has returned in titles such as Majora’s Mask and The Minish Cap, but I feel it needs a new remix with its classic sound in the next game

"Yes the overworld theme has been in other games, but it hasn't been 8-bit. That needs to come back"


NEXT!

4: Link needs a handful of side quests in between his main quest in order to make the game more addicting and satisfying. We have yet to see such a vast amount of towns for Link to interact with since “The Adventure of Link.”

Ocarina through Twilight Princess have had 5 towns: Forest town, Mountain/Goron Town, Zora Town, Castle Town, and Kakariko. We have yet to see as many towns, but also have yet to see as big an overworld as Adventure of link. Sidequests? There's plenty of sidequests! They just don't give you anything worthwhile anymore. (Starting with Wind Waker, that is) Pieces of Heart? Useless. I get all the life upgrades I need from Heart containers after each dungeon. Rupees? useless. I get all I need in dungeons. What happened to the days when sidequests gave me a better sword? What does fishing give me anymore?

3: Recent games such as “Twilight Princess” have provided us with a very vast overworld, but there was one problem… it was completely empty. I don’t see the point in providing a very large Hyrule to venture through when there are only a weak amount of obstacles and side quests. Whatever happened to Octoroks constantly getting in Link’s way?

I'll ignore the fact that they seem to say that there's not enough enemies (which there are plenty of) and focus where they say there's only a weak amount of side-quests and obstacles. There's plenty of these, too, it's just that, again, there's no point to them. The only reason I went to every Island in TWW was to fill out my sea-chart. In Twilight Princess, there's plenty of Nooks and crannies, they just don't give you anything. In Ocarina, I was running all over the field, trying to find more big poes and Gold Sulltulas. And you know what? Those were worth getting.

2: Yes it’s true that the Triforce makes some sort of appearance one way or another in most Zelda games. But I feel it has not made much of an impact in the series since “A Link to the Past” or arguably even “The Adventure of Link.” Sure Link went on a side quest in “The Wind Waker” to find pieces of the Triforce of Courage, but that was more of a generic treasure hunt. The player needs to feel a tremendous sense of accomplishment when they acquire even just a piece of the sacred object.

I kind of have to agree with this one. The Triforce has been there, but in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess it felt like it didn't want to be. Wind Waker put far more emphasis on the Master Sword, and Twilight Princess doesn't even name the "Power of the Gods."

The player needs to feel a tremendous sense of accomplishment

This, without the unquoted second half of the sentence.

1: Out of all of Link’s known sword techniques, the beam blade is his iconic attack. One problem though, that really only applies to the older titles. Aside from Fierce Deity Link in “Majora’s Mask,” this technique has not been seen in a 3D Legend of Zelda game (edit: excluding the DS Zelda games, sorry). Sure it was originally in “Ocarina of Time” (Zelda 64), but it didn’t make it in the final version. However if this aspect is brought back, I don’t think it should rely on Link’s health. I believe it should interact with magic in some way. To make it simpler, base it off a magic bar that takes magic away every time this ability is used.

This is far from #1 on my list. I was actually somewhat under the impression that the Spin attack in Ocarina sort of replaced it.

Other notable aspects: Magic, overworld puzzles, masks and Link’s original tunic.

1: Yes. 2: already there, they just need a point. 3: What?

Edited by CID Farwin, 19 May 2010 - 11:26 AM.

[Person]

The "masks and Link's original tunic" bit seems so ridiculous that it doesn't even deserve a mention. What do they mean by "original tunic?" Because they've pretty much used it in every single game in the series. The masks bit may be because people just want a remake of Majora's Mask.

[Fin]

I think he's butthurt that Link's underclothes aren't brown any more.

[Person]

I think he's butthurt that Link's underclothes aren't brown any more.

In TP they were, so that's hardly an argument. Heck, we even had a Link who was more brunette than blonde in TP. It's like TP Link was created by synthesizing the designs for the NES Link with the OoT one. Maybe he meant the yellow brim around the hat.

Edited by Person, 22 May 2010 - 07:39 PM.

[SOAP]

I think the actual complaint is that he wants see more of Link's sexy legs.

[Fin]

http://gallery.zelda...album=38&pos=20

Totally want to see this in a 3D Zelda

[Person]

http://gallery.zeldalegends.net/displayimage.php?album=38&pos=20

Totally want to see this in a 3D Zelda

True. The 3D games really didn't have epic tower dungeons with a millions floors like ALttP and LA did. Closest thing was Ganon's Castle in OoT (and that was just one staircase) and Hyrule Castle in TP. I say Hyrule Castle was a definite step in the right direction, though. Although Tower of Spirits from ST seemed a bit like the spiritual successor to that type of dungeon. It did have a million floors with the boss at the top.

[Average Gamer]

http://gallery.zeldalegends.net/displayimage.php?album=38&pos=20

Totally want to see this in a 3D Zelda

Due in part to SOAP's post, I can't tell if you're referring to the Tower of Hera or Link's ass.

[Fin]

I was referring to the ass, but now that you mention it, I really would like to see more towers in 3D Zelda.

[Kamina]

I have top agree with No.3. Yes TPs Overworld was nice and big, but it can be bigger still, i want less canyon and more trees, small rivers, hills, rocks, maybe some animals, and other enemies rather than those Bokoblins/Moblins(?) and the few Lizardmen.

Edited by Kamina, 21 June 2010 - 01:44 PM.