51 replies to this topic

[Person]

Well, with the recent revelation that the "Miyamoto Order" was either a mistake or a mistranslation, my faith in the ability of the creators of the series to tell us the timeline placement of the games has been partially restored. With that in mind, I'm going to have to take Eiji Aonuma's quote about Four Swords at face value now. As much as I'd like FSA to lead right into ALttP, I think that all of the hints and such might have been just leftovers from a time in its development when it was being made out to be a straight-up ALttP prequel, and now it's pre-OoT just like Aonuma said.

Any thoughts about this?

Edited by Person, 15 April 2010 - 03:39 PM.

[Jarsh]

My thoughts? I wish we had the Japanese for that quote too, because I'd bet it was a misunderstanding or mistranslation. I do think FSA before OoT may be possible, but the ALttP ties are very hard for me to ignore. True though, all those ALttP ties may very well just be leftovers.

[ganonlord6000]

Well, with the recent revelation that the "Miyamoto Order" was either a mistake or a mistranslation, my faith in the ability of the creators of the series to tell us the timeline placement of the games has been partially restored. With that in mind, I'm going to have to take Eiji Aonuma's quote about Four Swords at face value now. As much as I'd like FSA to lead right into ALttP, I think that all of the hints and such might have been just leftovers from a time in its development when it was being made out to be a straight-up ALttP prequel, and now it's pre-OoT just like Aonuma said.

Any thoughts about this?

That seems likely. Placing all 3 FS games before OOT would actually clean up a few details from later on (like the lack of gerudo in TP). And all the FS games before OOT would clear up info with knowlegde about Vaati. But that would give us 3 or 4 Ganons, wouldn't it? I hope Zelda Wii will settle this once and for all. Let me see how this order would play out:

........................../TWW/PH-ST
TMC-FS/FSA-OOT
.........................\MM-TP-ALTTP/LA-OOX-LOZ/AOL

Hmmm. Not a bad order, actually. It actually makes more sense for the gerudo to start out nomadic and then have permanant settlements. I'll edit my new timeline document for this. Wern't there at least two threads on this topic before?

My thoughts? I wish we had the Japanese for that quote too, because I'd bet it was a misunderstanding or mistranslation. I do think FSA before OoT may be possible, but the ALttP ties are very hard for me to ignore. True though, all those ALttP ties may very well just be leftovers.

That quote was actually made about a month after FSA was released in Japan. FSA was a mess throughout development, though. we know it was going to be the IW, but things like the map and various story elements were left behind.

Edited by ganonlord6000, 15 April 2010 - 06:41 PM.

[Person]

Even if we're going to try and make FSA a straight prequel to ALttP, we still have Ganon being sealed in the Four Sword and other such things that don't fit with the IW story told in the manual. Like I said before, I prefer FSA to be an ALttP prequel, because it's pretty evident that it was supposed to be before Miyamoto stepped in and changed things. FSA's development was such a mess it's hard to make hide or hair of where it's supposed to go. However, I'm going to believe Aonuma on this one.

[Average Gamer]

Even if we're going to try and make FSA a straight prequel to ALttP, we still have Ganon being sealed in the Four Sword and other such things that don't fit with the IW story told in the manual.

Well, the GBA release of ALttP had the Four Sword split up in the Dark World. One could argue that the maidens/their descendants moved the Four Sword to the Sacred Realm, believing that it was virtually inaccessible and that Ganon wouldn't be capable of freeing himself. One colossal backfire later, Ganon has the Triforce.

As for the "Ganondorf the thief" thing, I suppose one could argue that, because Ganon was only known as the big bad of FSA close to the end, Vaati mainly drew Hyrule's attention, and Ganon was dealt with soon enough, not many people knew him as/considered him to be a Maou. It'd take the act of stealing the Triforce, corrupting the Sacred Realm, and nearly conquering Hyrule with a demonic army for his title to really catch on.

[Fin]

The thing that bugs me about Aonuma's FSA statement is that I can't see the logic behind it. Okay, so FSA never got to be the Imprisoning War, so there's no longer any necessity for it to directly precede LttP. But putting it before the Imprisoning War doesn't hurt anything, whereas moving away from that era entirely just comes across as completely random to me. I'm still kind of on the fence about the whole issue, but if FSA > OoT is true I'd like to know what the thinking behind moving it before OoT was (even if it's just something stupid like panicky damage control).

[MikePetersSucks]

I'd rather take the placement that doesn't create massive plotholes up the anus, thank you.

[Person]

FSA creates plot holes by its very nature. For a time, I used the Palace of the Four Sword to explain them away, but I've been drifting away from using fanon or fanfiction explanations for the timeline. If I have to pull an explanation from somewhere that clearly was just intended as a bonus level and twist it to make it fit my preconceived theory, I think I'm in error.

A lot of times, I've had to realize that my notions about what I want the timeline to be don't jive with what the developers are thinking. I was a staunch one-Link theorist up until TWW, even though nobody seriously believed that even as far back as ALttP. I was also a single-timeliner until TP, and for a brief time tried to twist the ending of TP to make it fit with TWW's backstory.

Yes, FSA does make more sense as an ALttP prequel, but it probably was meant to be one some time in its development cycle. Then stuff happened, the tea table got overturned, and the plot doesn't make sense anywhere you put it. I do think a certain portion of this move was damage control, sticking FSA long before OoT so it doesn't disrupt the story arc of the other games.

[MikePetersSucks]

FSA creates plot holes by its very nature.

Bullshit. Name one plothole intrinsic to FSA's nature and not to a hypothetical timeline placement.

For a time, I used the Palace of the Four Sword to explain them away, but I've been drifting away from using fanon or fanfiction explanations for the timeline. If I have to pull an explanation from somewhere that clearly was just intended as a bonus level and twist it to make it fit my preconceived theory, I think I'm in error.

I love how fans are just free to just dismiss whatever they want as "bonus content" if it's inconvenient to what they wish to believe.

Then stuff happened, the tea table got overturned, and the plot doesn't make sense anywhere you put it.

Again, why not? What's the big problem? If you're going to say "OMG GANON" that doesn't mean anything, considering everyone in Hyrule has some sort of retrograde amnesia whenever a boy in green named Link shows up.

[Person]

I'm not dismissing PotFS as bonus content because I want to and it fits my theories, I'm dismissing it as bonus content because Eiji Aonuma said that FS was the oldest tale in the storyline. At first, I wanted to make this like the Miyamoto order, the developer just messing up or something. But now that we have confirmation that the Miyamoto order was bogus anyway, I'm more inclined to trust the developers rather than my own ideas. I've had different ideas about the timeline than the developers in the past, and I'm not going to just cling to them because I don't like what the developers are doing.

[MikePetersSucks]

I'm dismissing it as bonus content because Eiji Aonuma said that FS was the oldest tale in the storyline.

Yea, okay, and Miyamoto said that all the Links were the same, once. Who cares?

If there's a model that fits the available data better than Word of God, then Word of God has failed you.

[Nerushi]

If there's a model that fits the available data better than Word of God, then Word of God has failed you.

And if there's a model that fits the available data AND the Word of God, then you got the developers desired timeline, not your own.
Can't say a pre-OoT placement of FSA actually breaks any available data as much as it subscribes to it.

[Jarsh]

Yeah, I just played FSA again and watched the ending on Youtube. If FSA doesn't lead into ALttP then Nintendo's done something wrong here. Then again, it could just be damage control, as Person said. The interview came from Gameinformer, how certain are we that their translations are reliable? I don't even think the Japanese fanbase is aware of that quote since it was absent from that site where we found Miyamoto confirming OoT-ALttP-LoZ/AoL.

EDIT: I've sent an email to Gameinformer regarding the interview, and requested the original Japanese transcript. Considering the age of the interview, and how it's no longer on their revamped site (I had to send them a web archive link) I highly doubt they will tell us anything useful, but it's worth a shot.

Edited by Jarsh, 18 April 2010 - 04:26 PM.

[Nerushi]

The interview came from Gameinformer, how certain are we that their translations are reliable? I don't even think the Japanese fanbase is aware of that quote since it was absent from that site where we found Miyamoto confirming OoT-ALttP-LoZ/AoL.

Bill Trinen was there. And the reason that Japanese fans are mostly unaware of it is probably cause they don't do a lot of researches on English sites... Probably.

EDIT: I've sent an email to Gameinformer regarding the interview, and requested the original Japanese transcript. Considering the age of the interview, and how it's no longer on their revamped site (I had to send them a web archive link) I highly doubt they will tell us anything useful, but it's worth a shot.

Cool. But y'know. I can imagine that the interview, along with its translation were done on the place as Aonuma was actually 'there', so...
Well it's worth a shot huh

Edit: Oh yeah, in the Wiki, they do mention that its possible the Four Sword Saga comes before OoT, and I've seen some similar assumptation on other Japanese sites as well, such as the nod to the 'first adventure' in TMC . And thats without the oldest tale quote!

Edited by Nerushi, 18 April 2010 - 05:17 PM.

[Person]

There is no doubt that there are numerous ALttP references in FSA. I am not ignoring them. However, a seamless FSA-ALttP connection is impossible given the current ending of FSA, and FSA has gaps in it that make it impossible to be the IW story as was no doubt originally intended. As it is, it seems that the Four Swords games are all alone in their little story arc, and the plot holes that ensue are the unfortunate consequences of a messy development cycle. However, to say that a fan theory overrules Word of God is a bit presumptuous. Nothing prevents the games from going pre-OoT. Since the games do not contradict Word of God in this case, I'm going to have to defer to the developers.

Another possible idea: perhaps due to the concurrent development cycles of FSA and TMC, they decided to go with TMC as the earliest game and retool FSA as a sequel so that one could play all three games in the trilogy without having to play the games that would go in between them chronologically.

[MikePetersSucks]

There is no doubt that there are numerous ALttP references in FSA. I am not ignoring them. However, a seamless FSA-ALttP connection is impossible given the current ending of FSA, and FSA has gaps in it that make it impossible to be the IW story as was no doubt originally intended.

Easy. Ganon breaks out, tries to get the Triforce, Imprisoning War happens as planned. It's not like the FS Saga isn't already missing entire chunks of backstory. It certainly works better than Ganon breaking out, turning into a Gerudo, then swearing allegiance to the King of Hyrule with no one but Zelda raising a brow.

However, to say that a fan theory overrules Word of God is a bit presumptuous.

I've just stopped caring about Zelda's Word of God ever since we got shit like Link's Awakening taking place in the middle of Adventure of Link.

Nothing prevents the games from going pre-OoT. Since the games do not contradict Word of God in this case, I'm going to have to defer to the developers.

*points*

[Nerushi]

Easy. Ganon breaks out, tries to get the Triforce, Imprisoning War happens as planned. It's not like the FS Saga isn't already missing entire chunks of backstory. It certainly works better than Ganon breaking out, turning into a Gerudo, then swearing allegiance to the King of Hyrule with no one but Zelda raising a brow.

FSA Ganondorf ≠ OoT Ganondorf imo. With that in mind, your scenario works even if FSA is before OoT. And the Gerudo doesn't have to suffer a discontiunity syndrome.

I've just stopped caring about Zelda's Word of God ever since we got shit like Link's Awakening taking place in the middle of Adventure of Link.

That was the word of god... when? Isn't that just zelda.com fluff that was later removed on Miyamoto's request for being inaccurate...?

Edited by Nerushi, 19 April 2010 - 02:55 PM.

[Person]

Easy. Ganon breaks out, tries to get the Triforce, Imprisoning War happens as planned. It's not like the FS Saga isn't already missing entire chunks of backstory. It certainly works better than Ganon breaking out, turning into a Gerudo, then swearing allegiance to the King of Hyrule with no one but Zelda raising a brow.

Different Ganon, obviously. Presumably, the one from FSA either breaks out and is the one from ALttP (which still works with FSA before OoT) or it's just an aborted plot thread that we're never going to see resolved (most likely).

That was the word of god... when? Isn't that just zelda.com fluff that was later removed on Miyamoto's request for being inaccurate...?

LA in the middle of AoL was just fluff from Zelda.com, as was junk like all of the Links being the same. Miyamoto had nothing to do with that.

Edited by Person, 19 April 2010 - 10:29 PM.

[Perry_]

Easy. Ganon breaks out, tries to get the Triforce, Imprisoning War happens as planned. It's not like the FS Saga isn't already missing entire chunks of backstory. It certainly works better than Ganon breaking out, turning into a Gerudo, then swearing allegiance to the King of Hyrule with no one but Zelda raising a brow.

FSA Ganondorf ≠ OoT Ganondorf imo. With that in mind, your scenario works even if FSA is before OoT.

Wtf? Explain how on earth MPS's theory makes more sense if FSA is before OoT.

And the Gerudo doesn't have to suffer a discontiunity syndrome.

I'll just presume you are talking about TP here, in which case all you have to do is refer to the simple "just because you don't see it doesnt mean it's not there"

Although shooting myself in the foot after what I said a few months ago, The FSA fits best Pre-AlttP.

[Nerushi]

Wtf? Explain how on earth MPS's theory makes more sense if FSA is before OoT.

Doode, don't put words in my mouth. I never said it made more sense, just that the scenario he suggested works before OoT if the Ganons in FSA and OoT are different ( which is heavily implied ). I.e. FSA Ganon is sealed in FS, OoT Ganon is born, TP happens, FSA Ganon breaks out and ALTTP happens.
Besides, if FSA was truly before ALTTP, then it would make a lot more sense for him to be sealed in the SR immediately. Oh, wait, that would make it the Seal War, which FSA is not.

I'll just presume you are talking about TP here, in which case all you have to do is refer to the simple "just because you don't see it doesnt mean it's not there"

That works. Thing is that FSA-OoT out of the Gerudos perspective works even better. And no, I don't think the Gerudo presence in the game is decisive, but it's certainly worth mentioning. And besides, there is a freaking execution chamber in the middle of the desert in TP, along with the references of Ganondorfs bands of thieves ( just as the Gerudo were called in OoT ). IMO, there is a lot of credence in the 'they were taken care off' theory.

Although shooting myself in the foot after what I said a few months ago, The FSA fits best Pre-AlttP.

Actually, FSA sort of interupts some of the elements TP sets up for ALTTP. Mainly the Master Sword and similar elements. But sure, FSA fits well if one looks mainly at the geography and the graphics.

Edited by Nerushi, 20 April 2010 - 12:53 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

FSA Ganondorf ≠ OoT Ganondorf imo. With that in mind, your scenario works even if FSA is before OoT. And the Gerudo doesn't have to suffer a discontiunity syndrome.

Reincarnation exists in the Zelda multiverse, according to Spirit Tracks, and the two Ganondorfs show absolutely no meaningful differences of any sort. If a theory has to require two Ganondorfs existing at the same time, chances are it's probably complete and total bullshit.

That was the word of god... when? Isn't that just zelda.com fluff that was later removed on Miyamoto's request for being inaccurate...?

It was officially sponsored as served as Word of God for many years before the correction. The point is that there's not really much of a precedent of trust, here.

That works. Thing is that FSA-OoT out of the Gerudos perspective works even better. And no, I don't think the Gerudo presence in the game is decisive, but it's certainly worth mentioning. And besides, there is a freaking execution chamber in the middle of the desert in TP, along with the references of Ganondorfs bands of thieves ( just as the Gerudo were called in OoT ). IMO, there is a lot of credence in the 'they were taken care off' theory.

LOL right because every single Gerudo was part of Ganondorf's band of thieves and the Sages that serve the Goddesses are totally down with the genocide groove.

Actually, FSA sort of interupts some of the elements TP sets up for ALTTP. Mainly the Master Sword and similar elements. But sure, FSA fits well if one looks mainly at the geography and the graphics.

Some plot elements work better too. Frankly, the Master Sword doesn't mean much of anything, because OMG why isn't it used BEFORE OOT?

[Person]

That was the word of god... when? Isn't that just zelda.com fluff that was later removed on Miyamoto's request for being inaccurate...?

It was officially sponsored as served as Word of God for many years before the correction. The point is that there's not really much of a precedent of trust, here.

It was officially sponsored by NoA, until Miyamoto stepped in and told them to fix their bullcrap later on. We're just trusting the same people who shot down wacky stuff like that a long time ago. It seems they know what the timeline of their own games is supposed to be.

LOL right because every single Gerudo was part of Ganondorf's band of thieves and the Sages that serve the Goddesses are totally down with the genocide groove.

To be fair, the sages pretty much realize what they did was wrong when they apologize to Midna for dumping Ganondorf in the Twilight Realm. The lack of Gerudos in TP doesn't really say anything in regards to timeline placement, though. It's essentially an irrelevant point. They might have been wiped out, they might just be hiding or something. Nobody knows. I'm of the opinion that Telma's at least half-Gerudo, though.

[Nerushi]

Reincarnation exists in the Zelda multiverse, according to Spirit Tracks

Hah? What does that has to do with anything? What you're saying here is basically, "Hey, a guy in ST says that another person will reincarnate! So lets apply this meaningless attribute to every character!".

It is practically meaningless for FSA Ganon to be a reincarnation of OoT Ganon. Both guys were born from the Gerudo tribe. There is a high probabillity that there is a naming tradition within the tribe, particulary for the male Gerudo born every 100 year. Also, the way Ganondorf attain power in FSA is inherently different as well.

and the two Ganondorfs show absolutely no meaningful differences of any sort. If a theory has to require two Ganondorfs existing at the same time, chances are it's probably complete and total bullshit.

I call total bullshit on your "Spirit Tracks" reference seeing how it has absolutely nothing to do with Ganondorf and is outside the context. And you have no other reference speaking for a reincarnation either.
When Ganon dies, he can be revived most of the times using his spirit. WTF is the point of this if his spirit would suddenly travel to a baby for him to be 'reincarnated'? This also require the random chance of Ganondorf being named Ganondorf twice, unless there is a naming tradition involved, in which a reincarnation would completely lose its purpose.

I guess Zeldas spirit split itself in AoL backstory so that she could be 'reincarnated', ehh?
Oh wait... there was a naming tradition.

LOL right because every single Gerudo was part of Ganondorf's band of thieves and the Sages that serve the Goddesses are totally down with the genocide groove.

Sure, if it is to prevent bad guys like Ganondorf storming out of the desert, then why not. The point is, even if there wasn't a genocide involved, the Gerudo as a race could as well have dissolved by TP. There is theories suggesting Telma might be one of these. Either way, the fact that we visit a desert named 'Gerudo desert', and its pretty dead speaks for itself.

Some plot elements work better too. Frankly, the Master Sword doesn't mean much of anything, because OMG why isn't it used BEFORE OOT?

Why should it? It was originally made to guard the Triforce and the SR, no? Only after OoT it seem to lose this purpose, as seen in TP.

[SOAP]

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason FSA's last minute storyline change might have happened in preference to TP, which also has ties ALttP and was still in developement around the same time as well. Maybe they originally intended for FSA to either be the IW or foreshadow it but maybe they decided that TP was a better candidate.

If this is the case, FSA Ganon may not be same one from ALttP either.

Although, I once had a theory that had FS/FSA between OoT and TP with one Ganon all along. In this theory, Ganondorf in the child timeline has to delay claiming the Triforce for the time being and instead pursues the Trident of Power. Since OoT's future never happens, no one knows him as the evil Ganon he is in OoT. He is simply some troublemaking nomad who no one has heard from for a while until Vaati started showing up. Ganondorf becomes Ganon and gets sealed up by a new Link and Zelda with help from the shrine maidens. Some time later he breaks free and makes another attempt at the Triforce. He is thwarted again, this time by just the Sages and is brought in for trail for crimes against Hyrule. However, during his execeution Ganondorf is granted the ToP by some divine prank and as a last ditch effort to subdue Ganon, they dump him in the Twilight Realm. TP follows some time later. Ganon is dead but promises to be back again. With all the foreshadowing of ALttP and the IW going in TP, I strongly believe ALttP occurs next. Hew somehow keeps his promise. With no Link to stop him this time, he finally obtains the Triforce in the sacred Realm. However he gets sealed their by the Sages with help from the Knights of Hyrule, hence the Imprisoning War. Leaving room for ALttP to take place.

This makes way more sense for me. I might re-adopt this theory. The only hole I see is how Ganon goes from being dead in TP's ending to being alive and sealed in the Sacred Realm in ALttP's backstory. But of course, as I mentioned, he said he'd be back somehow.

Edited by SOAP, 21 April 2010 - 05:28 AM.

[Kamina]

This makes way more sense for me. I might re-adopt this theory. The only hole I see is how Ganon goes from being dead in TP's ending to being alive and sealed in the Sacred Realm in ALttP's backstory. But of course, as I mentioned, he said he'd be back somehow.

I personally play with the Idea that TP could be the last Event in the OoT-Child timeline, because of Ganondorf's death in TP, as you mentioned.
However, i can not fully explain how AlttP would fit in before TP then...

[Fin]

Although, I once had a theory that had FS/FSA between OoT and TP with one Ganon all along. In this theory, Ganondorf in the child timeline has to delay claiming the Triforce for the time being and instead pursues the Trident of Power. Since OoT's future never happens, no one knows him as the evil Ganon he is in OoT. He is simply some troublemaking nomad who no one has heard from for a while until Vaati started showing up. Ganondorf becomes Ganon and gets sealed up by a new Link and Zelda with help from the shrine maidens. Some time later he breaks free and makes another attempt at the Triforce. He is thwarted again, this time by just the Sages and is brought in for trail for crimes against Hyrule. However, during his execeution Ganondorf is granted the ToP by some divine prank and as a last ditch effort to subdue Ganon, they dump him in the Twilight Realm. TP follows some time later. Ganon is dead but promises to be back again. With all the foreshadowing of ALttP and the IW going in TP, I strongly believe ALttP occurs next. Hew somehow keeps his promise. With no Link to stop him this time, he finally obtains the Triforce in the sacred Realm. However he gets sealed their by the Sages with help from the Knights of Hyrule, hence the Imprisoning War. Leaving room for ALttP to take place.

That is almost exactly how I used to see the timeline, though since joining LA I became convinced that it's unworkable with the Japanese version. It's still a favourite of mine though, and it's how I view the storyline of the NoA/European versions.

[SOAP]

Although, I once had a theory that had FS/FSA between OoT and TP with one Ganon all along. In this theory, Ganondorf in the child timeline has to delay claiming the Triforce for the time being and instead pursues the Trident of Power. Since OoT's future never happens, no one knows him as the evil Ganon he is in OoT. He is simply some troublemaking nomad who no one has heard from for a while until Vaati started showing up. Ganondorf becomes Ganon and gets sealed up by a new Link and Zelda with help from the shrine maidens. Some time later he breaks free and makes another attempt at the Triforce. He is thwarted again, this time by just the Sages and is brought in for trail for crimes against Hyrule. However, during his execeution Ganondorf is granted the ToP by some divine prank and as a last ditch effort to subdue Ganon, they dump him in the Twilight Realm. TP follows some time later. Ganon is dead but promises to be back again. With all the foreshadowing of ALttP and the IW going in TP, I strongly believe ALttP occurs next. Hew somehow keeps his promise. With no Link to stop him this time, he finally obtains the Triforce in the sacred Realm. However he gets sealed their by the Sages with help from the Knights of Hyrule, hence the Imprisoning War. Leaving room for ALttP to take place.

That is almost exactly how I used to see the timeline, though since joining LA I became convinced that it's unworkable with the Japanese version. It's still a favourite of mine though, and it's how I view the storyline of the NoA/European versions.

OMG! A high five from the Todd. I feel so honored.

[MikePetersSucks]

To be fair, the sages pretty much realize what they did was wrong when they apologize to Midna for dumping Ganondorf in the Twilight Realm.

Sealing Ganondorf in a really poorly made, populated seal is way different from genociding an entire species.

It was officially sponsored by NoA, until Miyamoto stepped in and told them to fix their bullcrap later on. We're just trusting the same people who shot down wacky stuff like that a long time ago. It seems they know what the timeline of their own games is supposed to be.

That's just the most well-known wackiness in my mind at this minute. There's been other, more minor stuff perpetuated by Miyamoto and Aonuma, so I just don't give a shit one way or another who says what.

Hah? What does that has to do with anything? What you're saying here is basically, "Hey, a guy in ST says that another person will reincarnate! So lets apply this meaningless attribute to every character!".

It is practically meaningless for FSA Ganon to be a reincarnation of OoT Ganon. Both guys were born from the Gerudo tribe. There is a high probabillity that there is a naming tradition within the tribe, particulary for the male Gerudo born every 100 year. Also, the way Ganondorf attain power in FSA is inherently different as well.

There's no implication of a naming tradition whatsoever. However, both characters are pretty much exactly alike in every meaningful way, right down to possessing the same exact personality. The citation only serves to prove that reincarnation canonically exists, (and the line goes on to say that all strong spirits reincarnate, so ha!) it's only a confirmation of what most people in the Zelda fandom has always speculated about the nature of reoccuring characters. The way Ganondorf attains power is absolutely irrelevant to what soul he may have.

I call total bullshit on your "Spirit Tracks" reference seeing how it has absolutely nothing to do with Ganondorf and is outside the context. And you have no other reference speaking for a reincarnation either.

See above. Every strong spirit reincarnates. If Ganondorf doesn't count, I have no idea who does.

When Ganon dies, he can be revived most of the times using his spirit. WTF is the point of this if his spirit would suddenly travel to a baby for him to be 'reincarnated'? This also require the random chance of Ganondorf being named Ganondorf twice, unless there is a naming tradition involved, in which a reincarnation would completely lose its purpose.

See: Castlevania. If Dracula would just reincarnate as Soma Cruz and will eventually reawaken to become the Dark Lord, why bother resurrecting him in every other game? Because it's faster, more convenient, and doesn't have to account for a possibly altered moral character. Also, by the way, a naming tradition isn't necessary, since pretty much everyone in the entire Zelda universe reuses their names. Does Malon have a naming tradition? Tingle? No, of course not, that would be retarded.

I guess Zeldas spirit split itself in AoL backstory so that she could be 'reincarnated', ehh?
Oh wait... there was a naming tradition.

The two Zeldas have little in common to require such a leap. And yea, there's a naming tradition, but there is no implication that Ganondorf is a naming traditon. At no point, in any game, in any way, do the Gerudo imply that their king must hold a special title.

Sure, if it is to prevent bad guys like Ganondorf storming out of the desert, then why not. The point is, even if there wasn't a genocide involved, the Gerudo as a race could as well have dissolved by TP. There is theories suggesting Telma might be one of these. Either way, the fact that we visit a desert named 'Gerudo desert', and its pretty dead speaks for itself.

The Gerudo are nomads, which means they migrate. HUR DURR

Why should it? It was originally made to guard the Triforce and the SR, no? Only after OoT it seem to lose this purpose, as seen in TP.

Okay, way to shoot yourself in the foot, there, bucko. You were originally complaining about this placement because the Master Sword isn't involved even though FSA would be sandwiched between two Master Sword games...BUT HOLY SHIT WAIT THE TRIFORCE AND THE SACRED REALM AREN'T ENDANGERED OMG, so no need to get out the Master Sword.

This makes way more sense for me. I might re-adopt this theory. The only hole I see is how Ganon goes from being dead in TP's ending to being alive and sealed in the Sacred Realm in ALttP's backstory. But of course, as I mentioned, he said he'd be back somehow.

Reincarnation.

[Person]

Miyamoto and Aonuma never perpetuated anything out there or wacky like the people at NoA did. Miyamoto and Aonuma were the ones that put an end to it. Doesn't that make them more trustworthy? Miyamoto never said all of the Links were the same or that LA happened during AoL. You're just misremembering stuff from the old zelda.com days and attributing it to Miyamoto.

[Nerushi]

There's no implication of a naming tradition whatsoever. However, both characters are pretty much exactly alike in every meaningful way, right down to possessing the same exact personality. The citation only serves to prove that reincarnation canonically exists, (and the line goes on to say that all strong spirits reincarnate, so ha!) it's only a confirmation of what most people in the Zelda fandom has always speculated about the nature of reoccuring characters. The way Ganondorf attains power is absolutely irrelevant to what soul he may have.

So, in your opinion, being reincarnated means you automatically gets 'named' the same thing as in the previous body? Or do you think baby Ganon popped out and his first words were, "Hey, I am Ganondorf!"?
Your reincarnation and spirit speculation dwelves too deep to ignore these factors as 'the way it is'. And I don't think they're very much alike at all. It's not like a subjective opinion on Ganondorfs personality proves anything here.

See above. Every strong spirit reincarnates. If Ganondorf doesn't count, I have no idea who does.

Probably. Doesn't mean they'll reincarnate with the same name does it? A name is but a name, which require an external to influence it, unless Ganondorf retained the memories of his previous life, which he evidently didn't. In the same way as Ganondorf way of attaining power in FSA was external and had nothing to do with his 'spirit', so was his name.
I deem it more likely theres a bad gene within the Gerudo tribe that gives birth to greedy assholes + a naming tradition, rather than it being cause he is 'reincarnated' and his name somehow followed along.

See: Castlevania. If Dracula would just reincarnate as Soma Cruz and will eventually reawaken to become the Dark Lord, why bother resurrecting him in every other game? Because it's faster, more convenient, and doesn't have to account for a possibly altered moral character. Also, by the way, a naming tradition isn't necessary, since pretty much everyone in the entire Zelda universe reuses their names. Does Malon have a naming tradition? Tingle? No, of course not, that would be retarded.

Minor character ≠ Major characters. Also, I don't know the detail behind Castlevania. However, it seem like being a reincarnation of Dracula means you're host for his soul. Apparently it became obvious to this Soma Cruz that he was 'Dracula', and powers came alongside this little fact.
There is no such thing in the Zelda game, and Ganon had to exhaust an outside factor to obtain power.

The two Zeldas have little in common to require such a leap. And yea, there's a naming tradition, but there is no implication that Ganondorf is a naming traditon. At no point, in any game, in any way, do the Gerudo imply that their king must hold a special title.

I can argue exactly the same thing regarding the Ganons. OoT Ganondorf is a Gerudo who becomes a daimaou after obtaining the Triforce. FSA Ganondorf becomes the yami no maou after obtaining the Trident. The only thing they hold in common is their name and tribe origin. Incidently, the two Zelda shares those two as well ( both are from the Royal Family ), yet you argue they have little in common.

The Gerudo are nomads, which means they migrate. HUR DURR

According to NoA yes. Never mentioned to be nomads in the Japanese version.

Okay, way to shoot yourself in the foot, there, bucko. You were originally complaining about this placement because the Master Sword isn't involved even though FSA would be sandwiched between two Master Sword games...BUT HOLY SHIT WAIT THE TRIFORCE AND THE SACRED REALM AREN'T ENDANGERED OMG, so no need to get out the Master Sword.

Yeah, and why is that? Games like OoT, TP, ALTTP, OoX, LoZ all involve the Triforce, yet in FSA its like it doesn't even exist. Might as well place the game on the AT, because they argue exactly the same things you are doing now. Master Sword is not important, Ganondorf is the same dude reincarnated over and over, the Gerudo tribe can magically jump forth when they want to etc.