36 replies to this topic

[Veteran]

As from the title, you can see I do not like this recent Zelda game. I've been playing it since Saturday, I have reaced the final level, the ultimate flaw kicked in and I decided I didn't like it.

It's got nothing to do with longevity, graphics, storyline, difficulty: they all met my expectations. It's those blasted kinstones.

In case you didn't know already, apart from shrinking down to tiny sizes, the other main feature of this game is fusing kinstones with other characters. They have one half, you have to find the other half. Once they fuse, new things (be it caves, enemies, new characters) open up on the map.
You can get these kinstones through chests, defeating enemies, or finding them in bushes and such. However, in places like bushes and enemies, the kinstone you get is completely random.

I went through the game with a shortage of one particular kinstone variety, and what type of kinstone did nearly everyone in the game want? Yep, the one I didn't have! And the only way I could've built up a decent amount of them, was by slashing bushes and defeating enemies. BUT, if I did that, I wouldn't be guarenteed that variety anyway!

So I plough through the game regardless, eventually getting three of these pieces from the 5th (and penultimate) dungeon, so I go back to town to fuse them ---

Most of the characters in town have gone! And the ones that remain no longer want to fuse with anything!

You see, by being unable to fuse with people at a certain point in the game, the prizes they would've given me are now inaccessable. Since when has inaccessability been ANY kind of feature in any previous Zelda game?

In all Zelda games you are free to roam the overworld as much as you please until you want to do a dungeon, and all the items you need to collect can be found once you have all the weapons you need. Not in this game it isn't. The exploration factor is thrown away in favour of randomness. You're lucky if you get everything in the game, not skillful.

It's this feeling, the feeling that you're not in control of your progression, that makes me not bothered about the game. I have no desire to do the final boss now because I know that I can't utterly complete the quest. I'd have to start a new game, but even if I did, I wouldn't be able to guarentee 100%. That's unbelievably ridiculous!

I'm seriously considering trading it in. Never thought that about a Zelda title before. Sad times.

[lord-of-shadow]

I think you're overreacting, just a wee bit

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I only bought the game on Sunday and I've already finished the third Dungeon... and there's only two more left?

Sheesh! The only reason I haven't finished it yet is because I haven't been playing it full stop. Seroiusly, I was hoping that the game would be like ALttP in setup. Find the four elements and then that opens up a whole eight more dungeons.

The Gamecube game had better be longer...

[lord-of-shadow]

Now, don't get me wrong, Veteran, I don't mean to say that your complaints are misguided or groundless. Merely that thinking about returning the whole game over them is overreacting.

Myself, I've heard... tons of good things. AnakiN- of ZU says it's the best Gameboy one. TSA loves it. But then, you're thinking about returning it, Veteran, and I can't imagine that the kinstone thing is your only reason.

And Wolf_ODonnell seems altogether dissappointed.


Well. I will see for myself, in just a few days.

[Veteran]

I know I am overreacting, but that's because I'm frustrated with it. I would now have to start a new game for something that isn't my fault.

However, the kinstone thing I feel isn't trivial - the whole gameplay is based around it. I feel that every time I start a new game, I'm going to be worried about running out of this one variety of kinstone, and not being able to do anything about it. So why should I bother?

[Alakhriveion]

It's Capcom's fault, it is. Well, that, and Miyamoto's damned human shell failing us!

[Khallos]

I really think they shouldn't of made fusing kinstones that important to the quest, you rely on them far too much. That and it's length are the only things I have against it, other than that it is quite good.

[Showsni]

I am a little annoyed that now I've got so far, I can't go back and do some of the things I missed, but it's still a good game - though it does seem very short. I suppose the only way to ensure complete completion is to fuse as much as you can when you can, and get more kinstones first rather than completing the dungeons.

[Zythe]

Strange ... I always had a good 20 of each type of kinstone ... and now I've beaten it I've only missed 29 out of (I think) 100 fusions which I think is pretty good. The game is VERY short, but so fun and the replay value is through the roof. Next time I play I want to get everything, so before I move on to the next dungeon I will get all the fusions done ... and get light arrows.

It was much more rewarding than LttP, which I found (I only played the remake for GBA) ridiculously easy (about the same as TMC) and a bit dated ... about as good as the remake of LoZ.
The Minish Cap has one of THE best Zelda storylines IMO, and backs up the multiple LInks and multiple Zelda theories by showing previous princesses and heroes. Plus, you play in the era when monsters were first released on Hyrule (even though Zelda kills them all at the end).

The story is the best bit IMO, if only they made a 200-300 page book about it...

[Hero of Winds]

So let me get this straight... you hate the best portable Zelda ever because an optional side quest is pissing you off?

Well then, I hate TWW for the Nintendo Gallery. And I hate MM because of those blasted mini-games. And I hate OoT because of those damn Gold Skulltulas.

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

I now feel tempted to not buy TMC. Good thing it doesn't come out until January over here in the states.

[Hero of Winds]

I can't believe you guys are giving the kinstones more focus than the graphics, story, or gameplay.

[Veteran]

So let me get this straight... you hate the best portable Zelda ever because an optional side quest is pissing you off?

So I should simply play all the dungeons and nothing else and that would make me happy?

No, the kinstones are integral to the gameplay and therefore my enjoyment.

[Kairu Hakubi]

you had the second playthrough of windwaker to get all the pictos, and only a few were 'one chance only' and those were 2 bosses, tetra, and one or two minibosses... and raijin/fujin...
and of course if you kill all the bigoctos... well the point is, that wasnt SO bad. not being able to get all the kinstones sounds awful.
Yeah i was never able to beat the MM minigames either, they were hard as hell.
uhh, you could never not get any more gold skulltulas, they were always accessible again, so umm.. yeah.

[Hero of Winds]

So I should simply play all the dungeons and nothing else and that would make me happy?

No, the kinstones are integral to the gameplay and therefore my enjoyment.

But it sounds to me the problem is that you missed your chance to fuse kinstones. The kinstone-inaccessibility thing is bit annoying, but this sounds like something you just messed up on.

Kinda like how moving the block in the Water Temple a certain way will prevent you from making any more progress in the game. It's a designing slip and a player slip.

[TSA]

If you were hoping to 100% this game on one play through, maybe you should have been realistic...

Without a guide, nobody can 100% a game first play through. Nobody. Not nowadays.

Now, that being said, I have no fricking clue what you're talking about with Kinstone shortages causing you trouble.

You only need certain Kinstones to advance, and they're crucial (like the Mysterious Statue Kinstones, or the Gold Kinstone, or the Kinstones in the cloud area).

Kinstones are a SUB QUEST. They aren't the main quest, so I truly am failing to see how not having enough Kinstones is impeding your progress...or that it did.

So my point is - it's called REPLAY VALUE. You think Final Fantasy fans whine when they don't get the "ultimate weapons" first time around? It's just how games work.

[Tekky]

His point is, or rather how I understand him, is that Vet wants to have his first file 100% complete. Certainly, thats how I feel about Zelda games. I always try to beat my 1st file 100%, despite how long it takes me. I will start new quests in the meanwhile, but I will always come back to my original file to try to get those heart containers, or missing skulltullas...

[Chikara Nadir]

So my point is - it's called REPLAY VALUE.  You think Final Fantasy fans whine when they don't get the "ultimate weapons" first time around?  It's just how games work.

Actually...I do get pretty upset if I don't find that certain materia or can't complete something to get a certain weapon, or if my chocobos won't breed correctly, or I missed that one level four sphere lock...

That, and from much, MUCH Diablo II, I know that when you haveta 'get lucky' in order to find a certain item, a certain item that you would play for fifty hours straight to get a chance at...yeah, you can really start hating your situation, whether it has anything to do with actually beating the game or not. ^^

But not having played this game, I shouldn't compare! *runs*

[Darunia]

Ya, I always hated doing Meph runs all the time. Damned guy has his minions that would lightning me to death.

Anyway, TMC sounds like a lot of fun, and I'm still gonna get it when it comes out, regardless of what anyone says. For me, Zelda is a way of life in many respects. I grew up playing Zelda, and I'll die playing Zelda, simple as that.

[Veteran]

Kinstones are a SUB QUEST.  They aren't the main quest, so I truly am failing to see how not having enough Kinstones is impeding your progress...or that it did.
 
So my point is - it's called REPLAY VALUE.  You think Final Fantasy fans whine when they don't get the "ultimate weapons" first time around?  It's just how games work.

My point was, the kinstone pieces are random. On my first play through I had a shortage of one type. Who's to say I won't have the same sodding shortage on the next run-through?

My kinstone problem does not interfere with the main game in terms of plot, but it was upsetting to discover that after waiting so long for this kinstone piece, the boss carpenter no longer wanted to fuse with me after the fifth dungeon. And all the other people in town who wanted to fuse had dissapeared.

IF every character wanted a SET kinstone piece, and IF every kinstone piece was in a SET location; then I'd have nothing to complain about!

[Hero of Winds]

That's why I always complete the side quests finishing the last dungeon. Finishing the last dungeon and moving on to the final boss always changes the game.

If you want to start over, start over. But you probably should've completed the side quests, if you were so intent on doing so, before completing the fifth dungeon.

[Veteran]

Forgive me if I was under the foolish impression that I could play this game at my leisure, like other Zeldas.

I should've read a walkthrough

[Hero of Winds]

It's just common sense. Things are going to change when you get to the final level. And I'm still very distraught that this optional, stupid side quest is distracting you from the other fine points of the game (story, gameplay, graphics, audio).

Best GB Zelda, and you want to trade it in because you can't access extras that yield nothing to the overall game.

[Zythe]

Vet ... you're over-reacting, I'm playing the game again for that reason ... but I'm not angry or upset ... I'm actually quite looking forward to getting light arrows, all three oracle's houses and the last 28 kinstones!

[TSA]

Have you even figured out how to build the third house? You're going to cry even more over that.

[Khallos]

Do you know how to build the third house? If you do, thats one of the few things I haven't worked out yet.