16 replies to this topic

[SheikahPeople]

Hellow everyone, I'm new at the forum and I would like to share this theory with you. I first made it folowing a line, and then thanks to some of you I found other way t explain the time line creating a new theory of a round story. As any time line it is not definitive but I think it may work. Sorry If the article is a bit long, anyway I hope you may find it interesting and maybe useful for your theories.

Attached Files

•  Continuity Theory.doc   236.5K   8 downloads

[SheikahPeople]

By the way, the document has a warning at the begining but I better stateit here it may contain

SPOILERS for you so WARNING!

[MikePetersSucks]

As an unanimated object, the Golden Power could not tell the difference between good or evil

Minor correction here. The Triforce can tell the difference, it's just that it doesn't JUDGE between good and evil, because that's the job of the Gods.

At this point, nobody knows how Ganondorf was revived, but indeed we know he was just half of his power because of the Master Sword lock, and of course we should not forget the fact that the Evil Realm is still there. As known the evil Gerudo King is was turned to stone but with a lock that can be half opened so the possibility for Ganondorf to return, along with the fact that the Evil Realm is his reflection keeps the chance of his return.

1) There is no "Evil Realm", that's kind of a misunderstanding due to the English translation and semantics.

2) It was Ganondorf's army, not half of his power, that was sealed.

Now the next games I think are next are Minish Cap, 4 Swords y 4S Adventures. In that case the first event should be hundreds of years after ST and it is told by the MC intro then, years after, MC. Maybe it doesn’t have any support but as seen in PH and ST, the MC intro talks about demons and spirits and let’s remember they are not in the real Hyrule anymore so the curses or blessings of these lands are still there.

What happened to tall the technological advancement Spirit Tracks has over the three Four Swords-related games? Why do these games start using the Triforce symbol again when the people of ST seem like they've never heard of it?

I would like to defend my point of view that Minish Cap is not the very first game in the story line because Zelda already knows Link and of course in OoT she doesn’t

It's a different Link and Zelda.

Other thing I use to support the theory is that the Dark World is coming over Kakariko and the Lost Woods, (I don’t remember if other place is also, sorry). The Dark World exists indeed, the Evil Realm of the OoT has not been dissolved.

The "Evil Realm" was nothing but a Sacred Realm inhabited by Ganondorf's creatures, it wasn't magically changed into a Dark World yet. Even still, the Dark World of FSA has nothing to do with the Sacred Realm in any way or form, or else Ganon would surely know of the Triforce. The Dark World is implied to be a creation he made with the Dark Mirror.

In FSA one of the maidens talk about the Dark Mirror. She explains it was a prison for a dark tribe locked long ago. The only resemblance I can see is Twilight mirror but, who moved it from the ancient Hyrule to here? That is another weak spot but it can be one tribe that lived across the lands that now are the new Hyrule or maybe another tribe that existed in the other timeline and we’ve never heard about it. According to Anouma it cannot be before TP so if it is the same mirror it could not happen, that’s why I think it goes in this timeline’s side.

They are not the same mirror.

The words spoken by Zelda mean something to me, she sais in the last battle that Ganon was once a man, a Gerudo and now he was a beast, an ancient demon reborn. Demons again, and reborn would explain why the Master Sword couldn’t do anything and maybe could also explain why the Gerudos complain about Ganondorf… or could they be complaining about the Ganondorf of OoT when at this point is nothing but an almost forgotten event? Remember that most of the characters do not know a thing about Ganon.

"Demon Reborn" is a mistranslation. She's only referring to how Ganondorf is using the Trident that was sealed away, basically.

Meanwhile in Hyrule, Ganondorf found the entrance to the Sacred Realm and touched the Triforce making his wish. Nobody was found to use the Master Sword and Ganondorf attacked. The knights and the sages fought him and won (ALttP). Ganondorf was then subdued and brought to justice. The ancient sages testified how the Triforce of Power was given to the Gerudo King. As the only exit the sages locked Ganondorf with the Twilight Mirror (TP). This events will do the real picture of the Imprisoning war told in the ALttP booklet.

Ganondorf did not enter the Sacred Realm and touch the Triforce in TP's backstory; he received it automatically through a "divine prank", which was probably a Triforce split caused by OOT Link coming back to his child timeline already possessing the Triforce of Courage.

TP's backstory does not meet a single requirement necessary for the Imprisoning War; Ganondorf does not possess the full Triforce, we're not told of several Knights dying, he isn't sealed in the Sacred Realm, and he's not locked in with a seal built on the lifeforce of the Sages. Not only that, but inbetween the Imprisoning War and LTTP, Ganon never leaves.

At the end the Triforce is shown to the player in the hall of the throne, It possibly means that the Triforce was kept whole in the kingdom.

Most likely, it's just a visual cue that everything is okay and the game is over. We almost always see the Triforce at the end of the game.

When Hyrule was still a country there was a wise king who ruled with the Triforze, but as a child of man he died. Before he passed he left everything to his son, everything except Triforce of Courage, only his younger sister knew about it. She didn’t say a word to her brother and a wizard failed in retrieving the information so he casted a spell upon her and she felt asleep. Since then all the princesses are named Zelda (LoZ II).
No, Zelda of TP is not this Zelda, no it can’t be before OoT, the king did not rule with the Triforce, and at this point the Triforce is complete well not exactly because with this event the Triforce of Courage is now, hidden. So this takes us to LoZ. Ganondorf was death I know, but Zelda Universe sais in LoZ that Ganondorf escaped from the Dark World and he could have been revived there… like in the whole saga, he finds a way to return. He does not have the Triforce so he is turned into a pig, his reflection.

Zelda Universe is wrong. LOZ Ganon is just some wizard who stole the Triforce of Power and turned into a pig monster. The Dark World is never even mentioned.

OS and OA are next in that order ‘cause Impa shows in OA so it is close to the ending with the two games as I see it.

It's not the same Impa, and it's not the same Link and Zelda, either.

. I think OS and OA are in this side of the timeline because of Twinrova, they died in OoT when Link is an adult…. If you have played the game remember you killed them…

Why can't Twinrova have just come back to life? Or this could be reincarnations, just like new Links, Zeldas, Impas, Malons, etc. keep showing up.

At the end of the mixed games the Triforce turns into birds that’s why I think it flies to it’s original place, the Golden Land that it’s still the Dark World.

lolwut? The Triforce does not turn into birds. Even if it did, it wouldn't go back to the Golden Land, because it has an owner (the King), and it serves them for as long as they live.

Now in ALttP, Agahnim pretends to help Ganon to regain his power but Lin, along with the Master Sword, won’t allow it so he is defeated and it is said something like “The Triforce owner” in the end and that Ganon could not accomplish his wish causing the Dark World to finally disappear.

How did Ganon claim the Triforce? Why is the Dark World as it is, if it only exists like that as a result of Ganon's wish in the first place? It can't exist before LTTP's backstory or after LTTP happening.

Also, official information claims LTTP is a prequel to the first two Zelda games, so whatever.

LoZ and LoZ II may fit in adult’s line because of their geography and the name of some towns but Impa’s story in LoZ II won’t do without adding a story where the Triforce is in the kingdom and also this wouldn’t allow ALttP in the same timeline because there is no Master Sword there but in the sea’s bottom.

Geography is meaningless in timeline debate.

I may say that I thought the story somehow repeated and retells from the very beginning and also that many Hyrules have existed but I found the problem with the Triforce and the Master Sword, but since I once read that Miyamoto wanted Zelda series to be a circular story the ideais not odd.

When he said that, he was talking about the monomythic Hero's Journey. He wasn't claiming that there were multiple Hyrules or anything.

Another idea I gave born in the middle of this mess was time paradox, since Link in OoT traveled various times, more than two lines are possible making each game a direct or most likely a different new line.

Link was just changing the single timeline in all his trips except the last one, where the door of time was closed and caused the only split.

The idea of Evil getting the Triforce and the Gods destroying and remaking the world doesn't work, either. The Cataclysm's Eve prophecy states that if the Hero doesn't defeat the Evil with the Triforce, then Evil rules FOREVER.

[SheikahPeople]

Wow! you really know your stuff, well I said it was just a theory, anyway thanks for the corrections, I still got things to learn, even more than I thought.
Reading now your comment makes me think that I used more fiction than I thought and as well I learned that what is said in Zelda games must be interpreted a bit farther. I won't blame the translatiors but it did change stuff like in ALttP where the japanese manual states the gods ordered the Master Sword creation while in the American's it is only said that it was forged.
Well then I don't pretend to be stubborn but could it work without the Cataclysm fact? Like with the flood? there is no hero and Hyrule is destroyed in certain way.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
....
What does TML means?

Edited by SheikahPeople, 08 January 2010 - 03:57 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

As an unanimated object, the Golden Power could not tell the difference between good or evil

Minor correction here. The Triforce can tell the difference, it's just that it doesn't JUDGE between good and evil, because that's the job of the Gods.

At this point, nobody knows how Ganondorf was revived, but indeed we know he was just half of his power because of the Master Sword lock, and of course we should not forget the fact that the Evil Realm is still there. As known the evil Gerudo King is was turned to stone but with a lock that can be half opened so the possibility for Ganondorf to return, along with the fact that the Evil Realm is his reflection keeps the chance of his return.

1) There is no "Evil Realm", that's kind of a misunderstanding due to the English translation and semantics.

2) It was Ganondorf's army, not half of his power, that was sealed.

Now the next games I think are next are Minish Cap, 4 Swords y 4S Adventures. In that case the first event should be hundreds of years after ST and it is told by the MC intro then, years after, MC. Maybe it doesn't have any support but as seen in PH and ST, the MC intro talks about demons and spirits and let's remember they are not in the real Hyrule anymore so the curses or blessings of these lands are still there.

What happened to tall the technological advancement Spirit Tracks has over the three Four Swords-related games? Why do these games start using the Triforce symbol again when the people of ST seem like they've never heard of it?

I would like to defend my point of view that Minish Cap is not the very first game in the story line because Zelda already knows Link and of course in OoT she doesn't

It's a different Link and Zelda.

Other thing I use to support the theory is that the Dark World is coming over Kakariko and the Lost Woods, (I don't remember if other place is also, sorry). The Dark World exists indeed, the Evil Realm of the OoT has not been dissolved.

The "Evil Realm" was nothing but a Sacred Realm inhabited by Ganondorf's creatures, it wasn't magically changed into a Dark World yet. Even still, the Dark World of FSA has nothing to do with the Sacred Realm in any way or form, or else Ganon would surely know of the Triforce. The Dark World is implied to be a creation he made with the Dark Mirror.

In FSA one of the maidens talk about the Dark Mirror. She explains it was a prison for a dark tribe locked long ago. The only resemblance I can see is Twilight mirror but, who moved it from the ancient Hyrule to here? That is another weak spot but it can be one tribe that lived across the lands that now are the new Hyrule or maybe another tribe that existed in the other timeline and we've never heard about it. According to Anouma it cannot be before TP so if it is the same mirror it could not happen, that's why I think it goes in this timeline's side.

They are not the same mirror.

The words spoken by Zelda mean something to me, she sais in the last battle that Ganon was once a man, a Gerudo and now he was a beast, an ancient demon reborn. Demons again, and reborn would explain why the Master Sword couldn't do anything and maybe could also explain why the Gerudos complain about Ganondorf… or could they be complaining about the Ganondorf of OoT when at this point is nothing but an almost forgotten event? Remember that most of the characters do not know a thing about Ganon.

"Demon Reborn" is a mistranslation. She's only referring to how Ganondorf is using the Trident that was sealed away, basically.

Meanwhile in Hyrule, Ganondorf found the entrance to the Sacred Realm and touched the Triforce making his wish. Nobody was found to use the Master Sword and Ganondorf attacked. The knights and the sages fought him and won (ALttP). Ganondorf was then subdued and brought to justice. The ancient sages testified how the Triforce of Power was given to the Gerudo King. As the only exit the sages locked Ganondorf with the Twilight Mirror (TP). This events will do the real picture of the Imprisoning war told in the ALttP booklet.

Ganondorf did not enter the Sacred Realm and touch the Triforce in TP's backstory; he received it automatically through a "divine prank", which was probably a Triforce split caused by OOT Link coming back to his child timeline already possessing the Triforce of Courage.

TP's backstory does not meet a single requirement necessary for the Imprisoning War; Ganondorf does not possess the full Triforce, we're not told of several Knights dying, he isn't sealed in the Sacred Realm, and he's not locked in with a seal built on the lifeforce of the Sages. Not only that, but inbetween the Imprisoning War and LTTP, Ganon never leaves.

At the end the Triforce is shown to the player in the hall of the throne, It possibly means that the Triforce was kept whole in the kingdom.

Most likely, it's just a visual cue that everything is okay and the game is over. We almost always see the Triforce at the end of the game.

When Hyrule was still a country there was a wise king who ruled with the Triforze, but as a child of man he died. Before he passed he left everything to his son, everything except Triforce of Courage, only his younger sister knew about it. She didn't say a word to her brother and a wizard failed in retrieving the information so he casted a spell upon her and she felt asleep. Since then all the princesses are named Zelda (LoZ II).
No, Zelda of TP is not this Zelda, no it can't be before OoT, the king did not rule with the Triforce, and at this point the Triforce is complete well not exactly because with this event the Triforce of Courage is now, hidden. So this takes us to LoZ. Ganondorf was death I know, but Zelda Universe sais in LoZ that Ganondorf escaped from the Dark World and he could have been revived there… like in the whole saga, he finds a way to return. He does not have the Triforce so he is turned into a pig, his reflection.

Zelda Universe is wrong. LOZ Ganon is just some wizard who stole the Triforce of Power and turned into a pig monster. The Dark World is never even mentioned.

OS and OA are next in that order 'cause Impa shows in OA so it is close to the ending with the two games as I see it.

It's not the same Impa, and it's not the same Link and Zelda, either.

. I think OS and OA are in this side of the timeline because of Twinrova, they died in OoT when Link is an adult…. If you have played the game remember you killed them…

Why can't Twinrova have just come back to life? Or this could be reincarnations, just like new Links, Zeldas, Impas, Malons, etc. keep showing up.

At the end of the mixed games the Triforce turns into birds that's why I think it flies to it's original place, the Golden Land that it's still the Dark World.

lolwut? The Triforce does not turn into birds. Even if it did, it wouldn't go back to the Golden Land, because it has an owner (the King), and it serves them for as long as they live.

Now in ALttP, Agahnim pretends to help Ganon to regain his power but Lin, along with the Master Sword, won't allow it so he is defeated and it is said something like "The Triforce owner" in the end and that Ganon could not accomplish his wish causing the Dark World to finally disappear.

How did Ganon claim the Triforce? Why is the Dark World as it is, if it only exists like that as a result of Ganon's wish in the first place? It can't exist before LTTP's backstory or after LTTP happening.

Also, official information claims LTTP is a prequel to the first two Zelda games, so whatever.

LoZ and LoZ II may fit in adult's line because of their geography and the name of some towns but Impa's story in LoZ II won't do without adding a story where the Triforce is in the kingdom and also this wouldn't allow ALttP in the same timeline because there is no Master Sword there but in the sea's bottom.

Geography is meaningless in timeline debate.

I may say that I thought the story somehow repeated and retells from the very beginning and also that many Hyrules have existed but I found the problem with the Triforce and the Master Sword, but since I once read that Miyamoto wanted Zelda series to be a circular story the ideais not odd.

When he said that, he was talking about the monomythic Hero's Journey. He wasn't claiming that there were multiple Hyrules or anything.

Another idea I gave born in the middle of this mess was time paradox, since Link in OoT traveled various times, more than two lines are possible making each game a direct or most likely a different new line.

Link was just changing the single timeline in all his trips except the last one, where the door of time was closed and caused the only split.

The idea of Evil getting the Triforce and the Gods destroying and remaking the world doesn't work, either. The Cataclysm's Eve prophecy states that if the Hero doesn't defeat the Evil with the Triforce, then Evil rules FOREVER.

@ MPS: Your theory about LOZ Ganon is very possible, but isn't it implied that LOZ's Ganon is ALTTP's Ganon? That would explain how Ganon came to be in LOZ. A wizard who stole the ToP, became a demon and the prince of darkness, and took the name of the dead king of darkness.

@ SheikahPeople: Welcome. I hope you enjoy your time here. from reading your theory, your theory is pretty good. I do recommend that you read the translations on this site. I do have one that I will mention here. TMC's japanese ending calls it the first adventure of Link and talks about how the light force continues to impact Hyrule for years to come (ST and PH implies that TMC occurs in old Hyrule a long time before it). And your theroy isn't that long compared to others. A member here named Impossible has a timeline document that is about 200 pages long. And don't use the names for Ganon from NOA's old ALTTP manual. They aren't canon. Neither is that manual. FSA is in the real Hyrule and it is confirmed that Ganon died in TWW. And if people in FSA don't know anything about Ganon, it is better off either before OOT or on the CT. All of FSA Hyrule's races (or at least most of them) were wiped out before TWW. And as MPS said, ALTTP is a prequel to LOZ. Both the US and Japanese boxes say this. Besides that, this is a really good theory. Actually, I had one like this for a few months (I had LOZ/AOL on the AT), but after playng through ST, the ending implies that none of the older games occur after it.

[SheikahPeople]

IF YOU READ I HAVE SOME SPOILERS IN THE MID

@MikePetersSucks
I maybe should explain what happened in those spots you marked. Some indeed are clear to me, others are still giving me trouble. Each paragraph of this, matches each point in the same order you talked about them so I may explain my reasons even when I know some won’t work because of the new info you gave me. Some things I think were misunderstandings, just for you to know why:

I won’t discuss what you said about Triforce, you are right I think it can be inferred from ALttP ending.

Then what is really meant by Evil Realm, I would like to know please? I used this states to support myself, but of course if translation missed a thing well that will do.
Sheik explains before revealing the true identity:
“The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart… the heart of one who enters it… If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil; if pure, the Realm will become a paradise”.
Rauru said:
“Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!”
What I can think about what you said is that the “face” of the Realm changes each time someone goes inside and not by touching the Triforce or as you said “There is no Evil Realm” but then why?

Yes, I know his army was frozen in time but Ganondorf himself says:
“You see, it is also a sort of key a most wretched little key that has kept the seal on me and my magic intact!”

About FSA after ST yeah you are right, I didn’t pay attention on that details but it also can be folklore because of Tetra stories maybe, why not? But let’s leave it as I agree with you.

With Minish Cap, indeed it’s a different Link and also a different Zelda, I said that because I’ve heard some set this game before OoT because of the hat. If Link is an Hylia the kokiri won’t wear the clothes of an Hylia. Why wouldn’t they? Well why would they?

Talking about FSA’s Dark World, what you say about the Dark Mirror makes sense ‘cause does not change so I won’t discuss.

Ok you erased my doubt, they are not the same mirror even when they share a story alike.

Demon Reborn, one of the reasons I won’t take literally Zelda games. How did you learn about this mistranslation? I don’t think a trident makes him a demon, but maybe I’m wrong.

Yes, I know none of what is said about Imprisoning War in LTTP booklet is mentioned in TP background I thought I put the reference of LTTP on what I wrote. And on what I wrote, I explain further that Link does not have the Triforce of Courage at the end of OoT. All chosen have a mark of the Triforce that glows when other owner is near. If you watch the ending Link has no mark when he leaves the Master Sword, either way in Majora’s Mask. He was returned to his time, right before using the Master Sword for the very first time. Link gets the Triforce when he visits Zelda at the last scene why couldn’t it be at the end of the imprisoning war. If Link brought the Triforce of Courage, why is there a Triforce of Courage in WindWaker?
TP background has holes so I thought the imprisoning war would fit there and not simply get Ganondorf brought to justice.
I never said the sage’s life force made Ganondorf’s seal for TP, sorry.
Ganon never leaves, yeah you maybe are right I just played with the fact that it could mean that evil did not disappeared from the Golden land and that the legends change through time.

The Triforce detail, hehe you’re right.

LoZ Ganon, I didn’t even thought he could be another person with the same name. Yeah I also surprised when I read that but since there is little told from this game’s story I thought that would be possible but thanks for light up that.

Oh no! I didn’t mean that they were the same Impa, Link and Zelda sorry. The detail of Impa was because when you play the games linked Impa appears and in a separated way she only does in OA… well I’m not sure by now you know? But that was the reason.

Well I thought it because why reviving a minion if you can revive your lord? and because they were alive in the desert, alone and bored hehe. About the other characters they are people with the same name… maybe that work for Twinrova also, someone named the same way.

The Triforce turns into birds!! Or maybe planes? Haha I don’t know how to post the image but you can look for a video with this name The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons: Linked Ending and watch from the sixth minute. It is when games are linked but I didn’t dream it. The idea of it turning to the Golden land was because it moved alone haha but since you said that about the king I think I should try again with those games location.
Well I thought he claimed the Triforce during the imprisoning war but since in Zelda games, hundred years seem to be enough to forget things maybe the Imprisoning war was just few years before LTTP. Oh I’ve heard of that but I’ve never seen it that’s why I worked with Miyamoto’s time line but thank you, I’ll try to fix this mistake next time I work with this timeline mess.

Yes, I know Geography is meaningless but anyway Impa’s story would not fit for my timeline at that point. With this things you have wrote I may find a way they do.

Well I didn’t know that was the real meaning of what Miyamoto said. I had problems looking for info about that so I couldn’t do more research about that.

Yeah, that’s why I didn’t followed with that theory of time paradox.

Ok I ate the part of forever when I read about the Cataclysm but it could work like the flood, anyway, knowing Miyamoto didn’t mean a round story literally it just won’t do.
Thanks for sharing all of this. What does your TML’s image mean ?


@ganonlord6000
Thanks for the welcome, really you have the translations? I have to learn to seek hehehe. I’ll follow your recommendation about that booklet,when I learned the difference of the Master Sword’s creation I was afraid a lot of other things will be translated wrongly but I now I know I have this resource, and I was not wrong, Minish cap was one.
Wow 200! That was really a research!
Ok, all of that you mentioned is new info for me thanks!
Mmm yes I read that ALttP was an ancestor of LoZ but since I don’t have the box I never thought it would be there, as I said I used just booklets, some videos and some points of some articles that’s why I didn’t give credit to that.
Thank you! I’m glad you consider it a good one, with all of this I may work again on this but I’ll rest a bit hehe.

[ganonlord6000]

IF YOU READ I HAVE SOME SPOILERS IN THE MID

@MikePetersSucks
I maybe should explain what happened in those spots you marked. Some indeed are clear to me, others are still giving me trouble. Each paragraph of this, matches each point in the same order you talked about them so I may explain my reasons even when I know some won't work because of the new info you gave me. Some things I think were misunderstandings, just for you to know why:

I won't discuss what you said about Triforce, you are right I think it can be inferred from ALttP ending.

Then what is really meant by Evil Realm, I would like to know please? I used this states to support myself, but of course if translation missed a thing well that will do.
Sheik explains before revealing the true identity:
"The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart… the heart of one who enters it… If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil; if pure, the Realm will become a paradise".
Rauru said:
"Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!"
What I can think about what you said is that the "face" of the Realm changes each time someone goes inside and not by touching the Triforce or as you said "There is no Evil Realm" but then why?

Yes, I know his army was frozen in time but Ganondorf himself says:
"You see, it is also a sort of key a most wretched little key that has kept the seal on me and my magic intact!"

About FSA after ST yeah you are right, I didn't pay attention on that details but it also can be folklore because of Tetra stories maybe, why not? But let's leave it as I agree with you.

With Minish Cap, indeed it's a different Link and also a different Zelda, I said that because I've heard some set this game before OoT because of the hat. If Link is an Hylia the kokiri won't wear the clothes of an Hylia. Why wouldn't they? Well why would they?

Talking about FSA's Dark World, what you say about the Dark Mirror makes sense 'cause does not change so I won't discuss.

Ok you erased my doubt, they are not the same mirror even when they share a story alike.

Demon Reborn, one of the reasons I won't take literally Zelda games. How did you learn about this mistranslation? I don't think a trident makes him a demon, but maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, I know none of what is said about Imprisoning War in LTTP booklet is mentioned in TP background I thought I put the reference of LTTP on what I wrote. And on what I wrote, I explain further that Link does not have the Triforce of Courage at the end of OoT. All chosen have a mark of the Triforce that glows when other owner is near. If you watch the ending Link has no mark when he leaves the Master Sword, either way in Majora's Mask. He was returned to his time, right before using the Master Sword for the very first time. Link gets the Triforce when he visits Zelda at the last scene why couldn't it be at the end of the imprisoning war. If Link brought the Triforce of Courage, why is there a Triforce of Courage in WindWaker?
TP background has holes so I thought the imprisoning war would fit there and not simply get Ganondorf brought to justice.
I never said the sage's life force made Ganondorf's seal for TP, sorry.
Ganon never leaves, yeah you maybe are right I just played with the fact that it could mean that evil did not disappeared from the Golden land and that the legends change through time.

The Triforce detail, hehe you're right.

LoZ Ganon, I didn't even thought he could be another person with the same name. Yeah I also surprised when I read that but since there is little told from this game's story I thought that would be possible but thanks for light up that.

Oh no! I didn't mean that they were the same Impa, Link and Zelda sorry. The detail of Impa was because when you play the games linked Impa appears and in a separated way she only does in OA… well I'm not sure by now you know? But that was the reason.

Well I thought it because why reviving a minion if you can revive your lord? and because they were alive in the desert, alone and bored hehe. About the other characters they are people with the same name… maybe that work for Twinrova also, someone named the same way.

The Triforce turns into birds!! Or maybe planes? Haha I don't know how to post the image but you can look for a video with this name The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons: Linked Ending and watch from the sixth minute. It is when games are linked but I didn't dream it. The idea of it turning to the Golden land was because it moved alone haha but since you said that about the king I think I should try again with those games location.
Well I thought he claimed the Triforce during the imprisoning war but since in Zelda games, hundred years seem to be enough to forget things maybe the Imprisoning war was just few years before LTTP. Oh I've heard of that but I've never seen it that's why I worked with Miyamoto's time line but thank you, I'll try to fix this mistake next time I work with this timeline mess.

Yes, I know Geography is meaningless but anyway Impa's story would not fit for my timeline at that point. With this things you have wrote I may find a way they do.

Well I didn't know that was the real meaning of what Miyamoto said. I had problems looking for info about that so I couldn't do more research about that.

Yeah, that's why I didn't followed with that theory of time paradox.

Ok I ate the part of forever when I read about the Cataclysm but it could work like the flood, anyway, knowing Miyamoto didn't mean a round story literally it just won't do.
Thanks for sharing all of this. What does your TML's image mean ?


@ganonlord6000
Thanks for the welcome, really you have the translations? I have to learn to seek hehehe. I'll follow your recommendation about that booklet,when I learned the difference of the Master Sword's creation I was afraid a lot of other things will be translated wrongly but I now I know I have this resource, and I was not wrong, Minish cap was one.
Wow 200! That was really a research!
Ok, all of that you mentioned is new info for me thanks!
Mmm yes I read that ALttP was an ancestor of LoZ but since I don't have the box I never thought it would be there, as I said I used just booklets, some videos and some points of some articles that's why I didn't give credit to that.
Thank you! I'm glad you consider it a good one, with all of this I may work again on this but I'll rest a bit hehe.

Good luck. Oh. The translations are stickied at the top of the storyline forum. And you'll be amazed by the mistranslations.

[MikePetersSucks]

@ MPS: Your theory about LOZ Ganon is very possible, but isn't it implied that LOZ's Ganon is ALTTP's Ganon?

No, it's not. The only official statement on LOZ Ganon is that he's an evil wizard.

Well then I don't pretend to be stubborn but could it work without the Cataclysm fact? Like with the flood? there is no hero and Hyrule is destroyed in certain way.

I can't imagine why the Flood would happen so many times. Besides, keeping Hyrule in a temporal lock like that not only defeats TWW's moral message, but also kind of means Ganon wins.

What does TML means?

It stood for The Missing Link, an older member of this forum who doesn't show up very much. He was a friend of mine.

Then what is really meant by Evil Realm, I would like to know please? I used this states to support myself, but of course if translation missed a thing well that will do.
Sheik explains before revealing the true identity:
“The resting place of the sacred triangle, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart… the heart of one who enters it… If an evil heart, the Realm will become full of evil; if pure, the Realm will become a paradise”.
Rauru said:
“Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!”
What I can think about what you said is that the “face” of the Realm changes each time someone goes inside and not by touching the Triforce or as you said “There is no Evil Realm” but then why?

The Evil Realm is the Sacred Realm inhabited by Ganondorf's monsters; it's not magically transfigured into a Dark World or anything. The japanese term that got translated to "Evil Realm" is best read as "realm inhabited by evil", not "Realm controlled by/is evil."

The Sacred Realm does not change depending on who enters it; it changes depending on who owns the Triforce. Ganondorf does not claim the full Triforce in OOT, so therefore it can't really change.

Yes, I know his army was frozen in time but Ganondorf himself says:
“You see, it is also a sort of key a most wretched little key that has kept the seal on me and my magic intact!”

The word magic is a mistranslation that came from what could also be translated as "power", but the word, "Mazoku", refers to military power, since "Mazoku" is what you call what's basically a "demon army."

I recommend that you read our Japanese Translations thread. There's a lot of enlightening stuff in it that disproves a lot of common, long-held thoughts in the fandom.

Demon Reborn, one of the reasons I won’t take literally Zelda games. How did you learn about this mistranslation? I don’t think a trident makes him a demon, but maybe I’m wrong.

We have a few forum members that brought up Japanese scripts of the game, and I helped translate them: I'm a Japanese person, born and raised in the country, so I speak Japanese better than English. The original line calls it "Evil Device Revived", basically, so....yea. Take a guess what that refers to, lol!

Yes, I know none of what is said about Imprisoning War in LTTP booklet is mentioned in TP background I thought I put the reference of LTTP on what I wrote. And on what I wrote, I explain further that Link does not have the Triforce of Courage at the end of OoT. All chosen have a mark of the Triforce that glows when other owner is near. If you watch the ending Link has no mark when he leaves the Master Sword, either way in Majora’s Mask. He was returned to his time, right before using the Master Sword for the very first time. Link gets the Triforce when he visits Zelda at the last scene why couldn’t it be at the end of the imprisoning war. If Link brought the Triforce of Courage, why is there a Triforce of Courage in WindWaker?

He left the Triforce of Courage in the adult timeline and it shattered, we agree on that: But he still had lifelong ownership of the Triforce of Courage, so when he went back in time for the last time, he received the Child Timeline's Triforce of Courage, causing a Triforce split.

Oh no! I didn’t mean that they were the same Impa, Link and Zelda sorry. The detail of Impa was because when you play the games linked Impa appears and in a separated way she only does in OA… well I’m not sure by now you know? But that was the reason.

I'm not getting what you mean, here.

Well I thought it because why reviving a minion if you can revive your lord? and because they were alive in the desert, alone and bored hehe. About the other characters they are people with the same name… maybe that work for Twinrova also, someone named the same way.

Right. Spirit Tracks confirms that reincarnation happens in the Zelda universe, so we can assume that just about everyone keeps reincarnating through the timeline, thus explaining why there's a new Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Twinrova, Tingle, Malon, Impa, etc. every generation.

The Triforce turns into birds!! Or maybe planes? Haha I don’t know how to post the image but you can look for a video with this name The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons: Linked Ending and watch from the sixth minute. It is when games are linked but I didn’t dream it. The idea of it turning to the Golden land was because it moved alone haha but since you said that about the king I think I should try again with those games location.

It's just an artistic device. It doesn't have them turning into birds literally. It shows the Triforce, then it shows three unrelated, normal birds who bring the Triforce and thus the Gods to mind. It's a symbol, not a literal thing.

Thanks for sharing all of this. What does your TML’s image mean ?

My friend made it after all the work I did helping to translate the games and clear up plot details people wanted to know, as long as providing all sorts of cool Japanese mythology and metaphysics that the games could be referencing (like the idea that Zant is an Omyoji), and so he made that as a badge to my awesomeness. I thought it was cool and cute, so I wear it.

[SheikahPeople]

Ok, I got most of the things. Yeah, the same recomendation (reading Japanese Translations) was made to me for ganonlord6000 I'll do it a soon as possible.
Why do you think NOA is not translating more um...literally? This causes a bit of trouble and misunderstandings as you must have seen with more than one guy around here. I've read part of TP's ending and yes, the idea it's, in words, technically the same but the meaning of some words warp the meaning.
Thanks for your sincere enlightening answers. I hope we can exchange some ideas and discuss them.

[MikePetersSucks]

Why do you think NOA is not translating more um...literally? This causes a bit of trouble and misunderstandings as you must have seen with more than one guy around here. I've read part of TP's ending and yes, the idea it's, in words, technically the same but the meaning of some words warp the meaning.

Because literal translations sound and read terribly. It just seems awkward and it ruins the immersion of the story. The translations NOA use are to make it sound more poetic and fantasy-style to keep the player in the mood and the moment.

[Erimgard]

On the subject of aLttP/LoZ Ganon being the same...
aLttP's Manual, in describing the events before the Seal War, says that when Ganon took the Triforce, "The King of Evil Ganon was born, the one who threatened Hyrule".

At this point in the manual, Ganon hasn't done anything threatening (yet), so this leads some to believe that "the one who threatened Hyrule" refers to the original Legend of Zelda. The translations notes in the Japanese/English transliteration say that its written in a way that implies the reader should already be familiar with Ganon and his deeds in LoZ.

[MikePetersSucks]

That doesn't mean anything. After acquiring the Triforce, Ganon tried to take over Hyrule; and by your logic, LTTP Link and Zelda would be the same as their counterparts from the first game, which is impossible.

[Erimgard]

I love how "The translatorion notes" = "by your logic".

Edited by Erimgard, 12 January 2010 - 04:55 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

"By your logic" = "your interpretation of non-specific translation notes that don't really lead one way or the other despite what you're trying to make of it."

Regardless of the relationship between the various incarnations and depictions of Ganon, LTTP Ganon attempts to threaten and conquer Hyrule immediately after seizing the Triforce. You can't take that line to try and make a connection between LTTP Ganon and LOZ Ganon because, regardless of their relation or lack thereof, the line doesn't imply any connection to LOZ Ganon at all.

[ganonlord6000]

"By your logic" = "your interpretation of non-specific translation notes that don't really lead one way or the other despite what you're trying to make of it."

Regardless of the relationship between the various incarnations and depictions of Ganon, LTTP Ganon attempts to threaten and conquer Hyrule immediately after seizing the Triforce. You can't take that line to try and make a connection between LTTP Ganon and LOZ Ganon because, regardless of their relation or lack thereof, the line doesn't imply any connection to LOZ Ganon at all.

Come to think of it, you're right. ALTTP's and LOZ's Ganon have different goals, and LOZ's Ganon was only called an evil wizard. It would save a lot of speculation about his return in LOZ if it is a different one. Here's another one. Wasn't it mentioned in ALTTP that the triforce was bound to its current master as long as that person is alive? In ALTTP, Link got the triforce by killing this Ganon, the one who was revived in the oracles by twinrova. With Twinrova out of the way, LOZ's Ganon, an evil wizard, steals the ToP and becomes the new Ganon. This actually has no spculation at all. Lets continue all ALTTP/LOZ Ganon debates in a thread I will make a few minutes after this post.

[Erimgard]

"By your logic" = "your interpretation of non-specific translation notes that don't really lead one way or the other despite what you're trying to make of it."

Not really.

What I said:

"The translations notes in the Japanese/English transliteration say that its written in a way that implies the reader should already be familiar with Ganon and his deeds in LoZ."


What the notes say:
"According to Zethar, the way this is written implies that the reader already knows who Ganon is. This is a reference to how ALttP is internally connected to LoZ and AoL."



@ganonlord

A: How were the goals different? Ganon in aLttP got the Triforce, and used it to conquer the world. Ganon in LoZ got one piece of Triforce, and tried to get the rest, so that he could conquer the world.
B: LoZ Ganon is not just called a Wizard. He's called The Great Demon King.

Edited by Erimgard, 15 January 2010 - 04:08 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

"By your logic" = "your interpretation of non-specific translation notes that don't really lead one way or the other despite what you're trying to make of it."

Not really.

What I said:

"The translations notes in the Japanese/English transliteration say that its written in a way that implies the reader should already be familiar with Ganon and his deeds in LoZ."


What the notes say:
"According to Zethar, the way this is written implies that the reader already knows who Ganon is. This is a reference to how ALttP is internally connected to LoZ and AoL."



@ganonlord

A: How were the goals different? Ganon in aLttP got the Triforce, and used it to conquer the world. Ganon in LoZ got one piece of Triforce, and tried to get the rest, so that he could conquer the world.
B: LoZ Ganon is not just called a Wizard. He's called The Great Demon King.

His title in LOZ still isn't the same title from the over games. The titles are never consistant. In FSA, ALTTP, and the oracles, he was the demon king of darkness. I'm not sure about his japanese titles in OOT, TP, and TWW, but he was called the king of evil in the US versions. LOZ Ganon was never called king of darkness. We already have two Ganons (FSA's and OOT's Ganon). Why can't LOZ's Ganon be a third? It doesn't matter where you put LOZ. Either OOT's or FSA's/ALTTP Ganon are long dead. It would save speculation around his presence in LOZ. And I made a whole nother thread on this topic.