3 replies to this topic

[Wolf O'Donnell]

For absolutely no reason whatsoever, except for laughs, I decided we should investigate Link's heritage. Granted, this kind of exercise could be based on the most spurious evidence ever admitted into this particular forum but I thought we'd give it a go. All you have to do is state exactly which Link do you think marries into the Hyrule Royal FAmily, which marries some other bimbo and which Link is "gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide". You can play this seriously or just be plain silly, I don't really care.

Now personally, I do not think OoT Link is gay. Granted, he doesn't show any interest in women, but quite frankly, I must give him the benefit of a doubt. He does have the mental age of a prepubescent child, as though his body may have aged, he was pretty much asleep for all that time. I'm sure if he grew up to be a strapping lad, he could swing one way or the other. Don't think he married Zelda, though, because quite frankly, I have no idea how he could have gotten back to Hyrule from Termina (a place which gives the general feeling of being in a whole new dimension).

I'm not going to touch the NES games, because I frankly haven't played them.

TP Link seems to be a player and I wouldn't put it past him trying to father a family with that bint back home whose name I've forgotten and Midna. In fact, he seemed far more interested in Midna at the end of the game than anybody else. I'm putting my bet on Midna. Link and Midna all the way. And their children would be an unholy cross between Hylian and Twili. They'd probably become the Phantoms from Phantom Hourglass or any of the other Eldritch abominations that seem to plague Hyrule's history like mice to cheese.

Now as for Wind Waker Link, well, I don't think he got jiggy with Tetra somehow. Unless the Link in Spirit Tracks was kicked out of Hyrule Castle or is a descendent of some rogue branch of the new Royal Family.


And I'm going to leave it there, actually, because I have no idea how to tie all this up together. Zelda timelines aren't my forte, really.

[MikePetersSucks]

Well, reincarnation makes this whole exercise unnecessary, but what the hell, let's go for it.

OOT Link may or may not be into the ladies. He has a child's mentality, after all. But if he does go for it, he is surrounded by bitches. Assuming that all Links but TWW Link are descendants of one another, then Link should stick to Hylians no matter what. Since he must return from Termina to father the Link lineage, and he can't get with Zelda because the two lines aren't in the same family, this brings us down to just Malon. Boink boink.

We come to TP Link. He clearly boinks Ilia. Midna and Zelda aren't options as stated by the above rules, and Ilia has Childhood Friend status. TVTropes.

TMC Link. Not much here but Zelda as Childhood Friend, but above rules don't allow for this. Is there a Malon anywhere? Because if so, boink boink. If not, he'll have to grab a nameless NPC.

FS(A) Link can get to a Malon. Boink boink.

This leads us to LTTP Link. At this point, it is acceptable for him to marry into the Royal Family. Mofo has the TRIFORCE, bitch. Plus, the brown hair and jew nose of LOZ/AOL Link gives me the impression that he's from a branch family. He also scores with a princess.

At this end of the timeline is OOX Link. The Oracles have their own love interests, and he barely knows Zelda and it'd be incestual anyway. But wait, Farore isn't paired with anyone, and Link has an affinity for that goddess anyway...married for ULTIMAET POWER!!!!

TWW Link could conceivably get with Tetra, but ST implies otherwise. He grabs some NPC woman. ST Link gets with the princess.

[Pinecove]

Is there a Malon anywhere?

There's a Malon in TMC yes.

Boink boink.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

At this end of the timeline is OOX Link. The Oracles have their own love interests, and he barely knows Zelda and it'd be incestual anyway. But wait, Farore isn't paired with anyone, and Link has an affinity for that goddess anyway...married for ULTIMAET POWER!!!!

Reallly? How'd you figure that one out?

[Showsni]

LoZ/AoL Link gets with Zelda, and possibly also with Zelda, fairytale ending rule. How Zelda feels about Link and Zelda is anyone's guess.

ALttP/LA Link spends his life chasing seagulls and pining for Marin. Maybe he even finds her.

OoT/MM Link is still too young to be certain; there's not much indication of his feelings. He's only just starting to notice girls by MM.

OoX Link, probably Zelda.

TWW/PH Link is too young, again.

TP Link, Ilia.

TMC Link, childhood friend Zelda.

FS/FSA Link, childhood friend Zelda again.

WoF/FoE Link, got to be Zelda. Or himself.

ZA Link, presumably Zelda. The fairytale ending inverted.

Regarding the Hero's bloodline and the Royal Family's bloodline: Link can just be descended distantly enough from the Royal Family that there's no real connection anymore, in cases where an acestor has married Zelda. Via second sons and so on. Or else from a different branch of the Knight's Line.

[Hana-Nezumi]

LoZ/AoL Link - Link gets with Zelda and later Sleeping Zelda. Also the whore in the red dress who brings him into her house to "restore his life".

ALttP/LA Link - bangs Marin and Richard and maybe Talon.

OoT/MM Link - does it with Shiek, Mido, Malon, Saria, a random male Zora, Cremia, Kafei, and Tatl.

OoX Link - Din, Nayru, Farore, and fat Impa.

TWW/PH Link - Linebeck definitely.

TMC Link - Vaati.

TP Link - Midna and Illia. In wolf form.


Well... in my mind at least.

[ganonlord6000]

Well, reincarnation makes this whole exercise unnecessary, but what the hell, let's go for it.

OOT Link may or may not be into the ladies. He has a child's mentality, after all. But if he does go for it, he is surrounded by bitches. Assuming that all Links but TWW Link are descendants of one another, then Link should stick to Hylians no matter what. Since he must return from Termina to father the Link lineage, and he can't get with Zelda because the two lines aren't in the same family, this brings us down to just Malon. Boink boink.

We come to TP Link. He clearly boinks Ilia. Midna and Zelda aren't options as stated by the above rules, and Ilia has Childhood Friend status. TVTropes.

TMC Link. Not much here but Zelda as Childhood Friend, but above rules don't allow for this. Is there a Malon anywhere? Because if so, boink boink. If not, he'll have to grab a nameless NPC.

FS(A) Link can get to a Malon. Boink boink.

This leads us to LTTP Link. At this point, it is acceptable for him to marry into the Royal Family. Mofo has the TRIFORCE, bitch. Plus, the brown hair and jew nose of LOZ/AOL Link gives me the impression that he's from a branch family. He also scores with a princess.

At this end of the timeline is OOX Link. The Oracles have their own love interests, and he barely knows Zelda and it'd be incestual anyway. But wait, Farore isn't paired with anyone, and Link has an affinity for that goddess anyway...married for ULTIMAET POWER!!!!

TWW Link could conceivably get with Tetra, but ST implies otherwise. He grabs some NPC woman. ST Link gets with the princess.

The Links on the AT don't have any connection to each other. TWW showed that isn't possible. If this Link was related to TWW link, Niko would know. And it is implied that he was king for awhile due to the soldier get-up.
Anyways...
LOZ/AOL-Zelda
ALTTP/LA- Dunno
OOT/MM-Malon
Oracles-probably Zelda
TP-Ilia
TWW/PH-definitely Tetra
ST-Zelda
TMC-either malon or Zelda
FS/FSA-dunno.

[Altum]

The Links on the AT don't have any connection to each other. TWW showed that isn't possible. If this Link was related to TWW link, Niko would know. And it is implied that he was king for awhile due to the soldier get-up.

The Links on the AT do have connections to each other, but I'm not sure if they're genetic or not. The TWW Link is basically the Hero of Time reincarnated, so while they're not related by family, they are basically the same dude (a recycled soul/spirit or something along those lines). As for the ST Link being related to TWW Link, we can't say for sure. I'd like to think TWW Link and Tetra had some sort of relationship, but we really don't know what he ended up doing in the end, so it's hard to say whether he stayed in contact with everyone long after founding New Hyrule or not.

I believe OoT Link probably got with Malon in the CT and TP Link is descended from him. As for who he paired with, I have no idea. It seems likely that it would've been Ilia, but then again he didn't seem to be settling down back home at the end of the game.

Beyond that, I don't really have an opinion, though in TMC, AoL, and ST, it seems pretty likely that he paired with Zelda eventually.

Edited by Altum, 29 December 2009 - 02:09 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Reallly? How'd you figure that one out?

Because if we assume they're both descendants of the AOL Link and Zelda...yea, incest.

LoZ/AoL Link gets with Zelda, and possibly also with Zelda, fairytale ending rule. How Zelda feels about Link and Zelda is anyone's guess.

Awesome.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

LoZ/AoL Link - Link gets with Zelda and later Sleeping Zelda. Also the whore in the red dress who brings him into her house to "restore his life".

ALttP/LA Link - bangs Marin and Richard and maybe Talon.

OoT/MM Link - does it with Shiek, Mido, Malon, Saria, a random male Zora, Cremia, Kafei, and Tatl.

OoX Link - Din, Nayru, Farore, and fat Impa.

TWW/PH Link - Linebeck definitely.

TMC Link - Vaati.

TP Link - Midna and Illia. In wolf form.


Well... in my mind at least.

Your mind is an interesting place. I should visit there sometime.

And although you might think there's no point, there might be. After all, some Links are bound to be descendents.

[Showsni]

Reallly? How'd you figure that one out?

Because if we assume they're both descendants of the AOL Link and Zelda...yea, incest.

Well, it's not like they're just one generation down. Cousins is legal.

[SOAP]

I don't think any of the Links are gay. I just don't get that vibe from them. What Link is though, is a crossdresser. I mean look at him! He weras a dress and a pillowcase to simmulate long hair! This doesn't neccessarily make him gay, just a little pervy. He could just be a straight guy who likes the feel of ladies' pantyhose against his skin. Oh well, he has the pretty boy good looks to pull it off so more power to him.

Now Ganondorf on the other hand is definately questionable. As the only male of his race, he's surrounded by available women 24/7 and yet his attention is focused on rubbing swords with a young blonde twink. His overly macho demeanor and agressive obsession for conquest could be an overcompensensation for something he's not willing to admit. I say he's bicurious at least.

There's definately some Les Yay going on between Zelda and Midna in TP. While Ganondorf was inside Zelda's body, Zelda's spirit was inside Midna. If that's not subtext for a Ménage à trois, I don't know what is.

Actually on second thought, I have my doubts about TP Link. He and Rusl seem to have a close Daddy/Son relationship despite not being actually related. Perhaps a little too close. I mean two men going off into the woods alone to fish yet they never bring back any catch. Sounds fishy to me!

[Average Gamer]

The Links on the AT do have connections to each other, but I'm not sure if they're genetic or not. The TWW Link is basically the Hero of Time reincarnated, so while they're not related by family, they are basically the same dude (a recycled soul/spirit or something along those lines).

Only Ganondorf said that, and he was half-insane by that point. With all things considered, his words probably shouldn't be taken as fact.

For LoZ/AoL, Link at least got with the sleeping Zelda, though he may have also gotten with LoZ Zelda. It's good to be king.

ALttP/LA Link probably settled for a random NPC, seeing as how the public doesn't seem to know of his actions in the Dark World (so class rules might keep him away from Zelda) and since Link's journey in LA might suggest that he really wants nothing to do with any sort of grandeur.

OoT/MM Link might have settled for Malon, though he could have easily gone with a random NPC. I think it's kind of up in the air, seeing as how I viewed Malon as a bit too naive and sheltered compared to Link.

TWW/PH Link might have gone with Tetra, but he just as easily could have gotten with a random NPC. It would explain why only Tetra's seen as the founder and initial ruler.

OoX Link might have to settle with a random NPC because of class rules.

FS/FSA Link might have a chance with Zelda, but there might still be class rules to make him settle for a random NPC.

TP Link probably got with Ilia, seeing as how he barely interacted with Zelda at all and Midna returned to the Twilight Realm while destroying the one thing that connected the realms. There's still the random NPC option though.

Since New Hyrule's only been around for a hundred years and ST Link got close to ST Zelda, he might have a shot of getting with her, though class rules might still get in the way.

[Hana-Nezumi]

LoZ/AoL Link - Link gets with Zelda and later Sleeping Zelda. Also the whore in the red dress who brings him into her house to "restore his life".

ALttP/LA Link - bangs Marin and Richard and maybe Talon.

OoT/MM Link - does it with Shiek, Mido, Malon, Saria, a random male Zora, Cremia, Kafei, and Tatl.

OoX Link - Din, Nayru, Farore, and fat Impa.

TWW/PH Link - Linebeck definitely.

TMC Link - Vaati.

TP Link - Midna and Illia. In wolf form.


Well... in my mind at least.

Your mind is an interesting place. I should visit there sometime.

Maybe I can give you a free tour. ;3

[Altum]

Only Ganondorf said that, and he was half-insane by that point. With all things considered, his words probably shouldn't be taken as fact.

The King said that at one point, too, if I'm remembering right. I actually don't remember Ganondorf saying that. Also, I wouldn't say that Ganondorf was insane in TWW at all. If you inferred that, it's fine, but he actually seemed really calm, reasonable, motivated, and collected in that game to me. It's up to personal interpretation, I suppose, but either way I usually take text in-game at face value unless it's directly contradicted by a later revelation, which it isn't in this case.

Edited by Altum, 30 December 2009 - 09:33 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

...DAMMIT, why is Ganondorf/Link so attractive?

Fuck you, SOAP. Fuck you.

[ganonlord6000]

The Links on the AT don't have any connection to each other. TWW showed that isn't possible. If this Link was related to TWW link, Niko would know. And it is implied that he was king for awhile due to the soldier get-up.

The Links on the AT do have connections to each other, but I'm not sure if they're genetic or not. The TWW Link is basically the Hero of Time reincarnated, so while they're not related by family, they are basically the same dude (a recycled soul/spirit or something along those lines). As for the ST Link being related to TWW Link, we can't say for sure. I'd like to think TWW Link and Tetra had some sort of relationship, but we really don't know what he ended up doing in the end, so it's hard to say whether he stayed in contact with everyone long after founding New Hyrule or not.

I believe OoT Link probably got with Malon in the CT and TP Link is descended from him. As for who he paired with, I have no idea. It seems likely that it would've been Ilia, but then again he didn't seem to be settling down back home at the end of the game.

Beyond that, I don't really have an opinion, though in TMC, AoL, and ST, it seems pretty likely that he paired with Zelda eventually.

The reborn part was a figure of speech. And I find it highly unlikly that ALL Links are reincarnations. THe AT ones are out. OOT Link no longer exists on the AT (why is this in the storyline thread?). SOme of this thread is well...interesting.

[Altum]

The reborn part was a figure of speech. And I find it highly unlikly that ALL Links are reincarnations. THe AT ones are out. OOT Link no longer exists on the AT (why is this in the storyline thread?). SOme of this thread is well...interesting.

Correction: the reborn part may have been a figure of speech, just as it may not. I take things in the games at face value when it comes to deciding on canon unless it's contradicted by something else. I'm not arrogant enough to say "no, the line doesn't mean what it says, it means this." In-game text/dialogue should be taken as the creator's own voice, more or less, especially if it isn't contradicted by anything else that's set in stone.

And I never said that all Links are reincarnations.

In TWW, I got a pretty heavy feeling that the new Link was a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, who had otherwise gone missing after OoT. Even without other characters saying it, which they did.

[Average Gamer]

The King said that at one point, too, if I'm remembering right.

No, Daphnes and everyone else in the game said that TWW's Link wasn't related to the Hero of Time at all.

Also, I wouldn't say that Ganondorf was insane in TWW at all.

He had a disturbing obsession with the past, claimed that the gods destroyed the people when he was the one who slaughtered and oppressed them, etc. What's most telling is his "Let's see if you are worthy of the Triforce" quote before the final battle in the Japanese version of TWW, which indicates that he's completely out of touch with reality by that point, seeing as how the Triforce has already been wished on by Daphnes, Link and Tetra don't want it, and the Triforce has flown away.

Edited by Average Gamer, 30 December 2009 - 06:05 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

The reborn part was a figure of speech. And I find it highly unlikly that ALL Links are reincarnations. THe AT ones are out. OOT Link no longer exists on the AT (why is this in the storyline thread?). SOme of this thread is well...interesting.

Correction: the reborn part may have been a figure of speech, just as it may not. I take things in the games at face value when it comes to deciding on canon unless it's contradicted by something else. I'm not arrogant enough to say "no, the line doesn't mean what it says, it means this." In-game text/dialogue should be taken as the creator's own voice, more or less, especially if it isn't contradicted by anything else that's set in stone.

And I never said that all Links are reincarnations.

In TWW, I got a pretty heavy feeling that the new Link was a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, who had otherwise gone missing after OoT. Even without other characters saying it, which they did.

I agree with Average Gamer. It is stated in TWW at several points that this link isn't related to OOT Link. (he no longer exists on this timeline).

[Altum]

No, Daphnes and everyone else in the game said that TWW's Link wasn't related to the Hero of Time at all.

They said he wasn't related to him, as in a descendant, yes. I do remember Daphnes as a boat saying something along the lines of him being the Hero of Time reborn, though. I can even picture it in my head. I really haven't played TWW in years though. Still, if it was a line from Ganondorf that I'm remembering, I still don't discount it. There's nothing against it, really. I don't think you're really getting what I'm implying though.

He had a disturbing obsession with the past, claimed that the gods destroyed the people when he was the one who slaughtered and oppressed them, etc. What's most telling is his "Let's see if you are worthy of the Triforce" quote before the final battle in the Japanese version of TWW, which indicates that he's completely out of touch with reality by that point, seeing as how the Triforce has already been wished on by Daphnes, Link and Tetra don't want it, and the Triforce has flown away.

Yes, he's obsessed with the past. That doesn't mean he's insane. And, technically, the Goddesses likely killed his people (along with many others) with the flood, even if he oppressed everyone.

The line "Let's see if you are worthy of the Triforce" doesn't mean he's insane, either. Seeing as Link was a bearer of the Triforce before it flew away, it could be in line with saying "You wielded the Triforce just like I did, let's see if you're as worthy as I." It's more a taunt against Link and/or Zelda, since they were chosen by the Goddesses, to see if they live up to the "name."

Edited by Altum, 30 December 2009 - 06:31 PM.

[Altum]

I agree with Average Gamer. It is stated in TWW at several points that this link isn't related to OOT Link. (he no longer exists on this timeline).

Except I never said he was related to OoT Link in that sense. I just believe he was the Hero reincarnated since there was no one to continue on Link's genetic legacy in the AT. Characters in the game do make note that he is not the Hero of Time. I know that. But I believe he is a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, living a different life as a different person, the Hero of the Winds. This goes hand-in-hand with what is said by different characters throughout the game (Ganondorf saying he's a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, but other characters noting the differences). In real life beliefs, second lives and reincarnations don't necessarily mean that you're the same dude you were before.

I know TWW Link is not a descendant of OoT Link, and I know they're not the exact same people. Both of you please stop trying to twist what I'm saying into that.

Edited by Altum, 30 December 2009 - 06:34 PM.

[Average Gamer]

They said he wasn't related to him, as in a descendant, yes.

No, they said that he wasn't the Hero of Time at all. He wasn't a descendant or a reincarnation.

Yes, he's obsessed with the past. That doesn't mean he's insane.

His obsession has clearly twisted his mind, and it's just one of many things.

And, technically, the Goddesses likely killed his people (along with many others) with the flood

Ganondorf invaded Hyrule and slaughtered the people. The Goddesses told the survivors to flee to the mountaintops and saved them. The Goddesses didn't kill anyone, and Hyrule didn't actually flood until the end of TWW either.

The line "Let's see if you are worthy of the Triforce" doesn't mean he's insane, either. Seeing as Link was a bearer of the Triforce before it flew away, it could be in line with saying "You wielded the Triforce just like I did, let's see if you're as worthy as I." It's more a taunt against Link and/or Zelda, since they were chosen by the Goddesses, to see if they live up to the "name."

Except he already said something like that to Link just before the Puppet Ganon battle. Before the final battle, Ganondorf's clearly referring to the entire Triforce as though Link and Tetra were trying to claim it, ignoring the fact that it has been wished on and is gone.

[Altum]

No, they said that he wasn't the Hero of Time at all. He wasn't a descendant or a reincarnation.

For the last time, I know he wasn't a descendant.

And there is no quote in the game saying "You're not a reincarnation of the Hero of Time." The closest thing we have is Daphnes telling Jabun that it "appears" (I believe that's what it says in-game) that there is no "connection" (would like to know the Japanese term used there) between OoT Link and TWW Link, and that phrasing seems a bit skeptical/unsure on the character's part. It sounds like Daphnes suspected there was a connection, but couldn't find it in the end. I'd like to see the original Japanese there. Saying "It appears there's no connection" and "There is no connection" can imply very different things. It's easy for it to "appear" there is no connection: TWW Link looks different, isn't a descendant of OoT Link, and knows nothing about what's going on (more or less).

There is a quote, however, saying that he is linked by way of reincarnation, and with a much more forward degree of certainty.

Just because he may be a reincarnation of a previous hero doesn't mean he is that hero, though, which is what you're getting tangled up in. A lot of the characters make it clear that he is not the Hero of Time, which is obvious. If I were reincarnated in the body of an elephant in 638 years, I would very obviously not be related then to who I am now, and I would very obviously not be the same person.

Ganondorf invaded Hyrule and slaughtered the people. The Goddesses told the survivors to flee to the mountaintops and saved them. The Goddesses didn't kill anyone, and Hyrule didn't actually flood until the end of TWW either.

I know Ganondorf killed people. Nothing I said goes against that. And I don't think anything he says contradicts that fact, either. Also, it seemed like only a portion of Hyrule was preserved, not the entire thing, but again I haven't played it in a while. I'm under the impression that not everyone made it to the mountaintops.

Except he already said something like that to Link just before the Puppet Ganon battle. Before the final battle, Ganondorf's clearly referring to the entire Triforce as though Link and Tetra were trying to claim it, ignoring the fact that it has been wished on and is gone.

He already said something like that, so what's the problem with him saying it again. Plus, just because the Triforce leaves, that doesn't mean he's not going to go after it. And if he did, it's obvious that the heroes would try to reach it before him. It's more him taunting in desperation at the end than him being insane

Edited by Altum, 30 December 2009 - 08:11 PM.

[Average Gamer]

[quote name='Altum' date='30 December 2009 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1262220899' post='499858']For the last time, I know he wasn't a descendant.[/quote]

I wasn't saying you thought that, I was just emphasizing that he has no connection at all. Furthermore, if TP is any indication, it would appear that OoT/MM Link's spirit stayed on the Child Timeline.

[quote name='Altum]Just because he may be a reincarnation of a previous hero doesn't mean he is that hero[/quote]

But claiming that the HoW is a reincarnation of the HoT is still missing the point. The Hero of Time was ultimately supposed to be a convenient savior for the land, whether or not he knew it. It was his basic function, whereas it wasn't with the Hero of Winds. People trusting in the HoW even though he wasn't the HoT was meant to show hope for the present and future, whereas Ganondorf claiming that the HoW was the HoT was meant to show Ganondorf's refusal to accept the present and future.

[quote name='Altum']Also, it seemed like only a portion of Hyrule was preserved, not the entire thing, but again I haven't played it in a while.[/quote]

The "bubble" appears to extend far into the horizon in the submerged Hyrule, suggesting that the entire land was preserved.

[quote name='Altum']He already said something like that, so what's the problem with him saying it again.[/quote]

It's completely pointless, and one could argue that the "were you worthy of being a bearer" question would have already been answered after Ganondorf defeated Link.

[quote name='Altum']Plus, just because the Triforce leaves, that doesn't mean he's not going to go after it.[/quote]

Hyrule is being annihilated. Ganondorf's essentially stuck atop his tower and can't access the Triforce, and Daphnes is its current master anyway, making all efforts to claim it futile.

Edited by Average Gamer, 30 December 2009 - 10:04 PM.

[Altum]

But claiming that the HoW is a reincarnation of the HoT is still missing the point. The Hero of Time was ultimately supposed to be a convenient savior for the land, whether or not he knew it. It was his basic function, whereas it wasn't with the Hero of Winds. People trusting in the HoW even though he wasn't the HoT was meant to show hope for the present and future, whereas Ganondorf claiming that the HoW was the HoT was meant to show Ganondorf's refusal to accept the present and future.

This seems like a rather large assumption on your part. Who knows whether the Hero of the Winds was destined to defeat Ganondorf again or not? Many "Heroes" always show up, conveniently to thwart Ganondorf or another. I don't know what this has to do with what I was saying either.

The people of Hyrule felt abandoned by the Hero of Time. That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the Hero of Wind may be a separate incarnation of the previous hero. I fail to see how it's missing the point. The Goddess's chosen protector returned in some form. They weren't abandoned. That was a theme I picked up.

The "bubble" appears to extend far into the horizon in the submerged Hyrule, suggesting that the entire land was preserved.

I vaguely remember this.

It's completely pointless, and one could argue that the "were you worthy of being a bearer" question would have already been answered after Ganondorf defeated Link.

Pointless in your opinion, but definitely not a mark of insanity. Continuous, redundant taunting is a villain trademark.

Hyrule is being annihilated. Ganondorf's essentially stuck atop his tower and can't access the Triforce, and Daphnes is its current master anyway, making all efforts to claim it futile.

Desperate, yes. But that doesn't mean he's insane. And it left the scene. Pretty obvious to me that it doesn't have a master anymore and is up for grabs, where ever it is.

Edited by Altum, 30 December 2009 - 11:00 PM.

[Average Gamer]

This seems like a rather large assumption on your part.

The entire point of TWW was to move on instead of ruining your present and future by clinging to the past. Trusting in the Hero of Winds instead of continuing a futile search for the Hero of Time was meant to highlight this. Also, if the Hero of Time could reincarnate on the AT and be a hero again, why didn't he just show up for TWW's backstory?

The people of Hyrule felt abandoned by the Hero of Time.

I meant that Daphnes, Jabun, etc. placing faith in a person who wasn't the HoT was supposed to show hope for the future. I wasn't referring to the people in Hyrule from TWW's backstory.

I fail to see how it's missing the point.

It's clinging to the past; desperately chasing after something from a time long gone by and thinking that nothing else could possibly save the day or be good. Trusting in the Hero of Winds is supposed to be a sign of moving on.

Pointless in your opinion, but definitely not a mark of insanity.

Again, Ganondorf's referring to the entire Triforce, not the individual pieces. He's not saying "let's see if you're worthy of the individual pieces that are gone anyway".

Desperate, yes. But that doesn't mean he's insane.

He's completely out of touch with the moment. He's clearly not right in the head.

And it left the scene. Pretty obvious to me that it doesn't have a master anymore and is up for grabs, where ever it is.

You don't have to be in contact with the Triforce to be its master; just look at Ganon from ALttP.

Edited by Average Gamer, 31 December 2009 - 01:28 AM.

[Altum]

The entire point of TWW was to move on instead of ruining your present and future by clinging to the past. Trusting in the Hero of Winds instead of continuing a futile search for the Hero of Time was meant to highlight this. Also, if the Hero of Time could reincarnate on the AT and be a hero again, why didn't he just show up for TWW's backstory?

And they used the Triforce, something strongly rooted in Hyrule's past, to move on more than anything else, so your point is?

I know the Hero of the Winds isn't the Hero of Time. I never said that. You're either completely not grasping what I'm saying or just playing dumb. Reincarnation isn't same thing as "rebirth" or "revival." The Hero of the Winds can be a reincarnation of the Hero of Time and still not be the Hero of Time.

As for the Hero not showing up, I'd wager the backstory didn't happen very long after the end of OoT in the AT. Link should've still been alive and still been there, but he wasn't. That's the impression I got from the story years ago. They make it seem like that specific Hero walked away and was absent. I doubt they would've expected the Hero of Time to save them if it was centuries after OoT or something. I'm thinking TWW's backstory happened within a lifetime of the events of OoT.

I meant that Daphnes, Jabun, etc. placing faith in a person who wasn't the HoT was supposed to show hope for the future. I wasn't referring to the people in Hyrule from TWW's backstory.

Which doesn't disprove what I said, because I never said he was the Hero of Time. Reincarnation doesn't mean you're the same person. A lot of eastern cultures believe in reincarnation. Sometimes, a soul can be reincarnated in a different body with a completely different persona. They share a soul but are, by and large, completely different people. The Hero of Time could be reincarnated as the Hero of the Winds and still be a completely different person, which goes hand-in-hand with both what Ganondorf says and the other characters say. You're getting wrapped up in specifics that are completely irrelevant to what I'm saying.

It's clinging to the past; desperately chasing after something from a time long gone by and thinking that nothing else could possibly save the day or be good. Trusting in the Hero of Winds is supposed to be a sign of moving on.

Except it's not clinging to the past anymore than using the Triforce to wish away Hyrule was. And trusting in the Hero of the Winds has nothing to do with him potentially being a reincarnation of the Hero of Time. The Hero of the Winds is a new hero, and the entire meaning of TWW wouldn't be challenged by him being a reincarnation. It's more that you don't like the idea rather than you having proof against it.

If there was anyone that would know if TWW Link was a reincarnation of OoT Link, it'd be Ganondorf. Daphnes never met him. If Jabun is Lord Jabu-Jabu, he never saw him after he stepped into the mantle of the Hero of Time, only when he was a kid running errands for the princess. Ganondorf is the only one to have been involved with the Hero of Time, and the only one to have a Triforce piece (usually identified with being linked to other bearers by destiny or what-have-you) that remarks about anything about their potential connection.

Again, Ganondorf's referring to the entire Triforce, not the individual pieces. He's not saying "let's see if you're worthy of the individual pieces that are gone anyway".

Individual pieces and the powers they grant are sometimes referred to simply as the Triforce in the games. And you're grasping here. He just saw the Triforce as a whole fly away and split apart after the wish. After spending centuries sealed away waiting to get his hands on it, I'm sure he'd want to go after it again, and seeing as Link and Zelda just had pieces and Daphnes just hijacked it right in front of his eyes, it's not far-fetched to say he would believe they would go after it again.

He's completely out of touch with the moment. He's clearly not right in the head.

I don't get that from these quotes at all. He's desperate, not out of touch. If anything, when he dies, he admits that Hyrule is gone and that it's all over. This is a very level-headed Ganondorf in this game.

You don't have to be in contact with the Triforce to be its master; just look at Ganon from ALttP.

Yeah, in ALttP each piece was a measly 5-feet from each other, in Ganon's fortress, the Pyramid of Power. I'd imagine he placed them there. They left Daphnes after he made his wish, then split into three pieces in the air. What this means is up for debate, but it's very obvious that it left, whether because Daphnes wished them away or not.

In Summary:

In response to the topic, someone said that TWW Link wasn't related by blood to OoT Link. I agreed with this notion, but said I believe TWW Link to be a reincarnation of OoT Link on the AT. My evidence for this is what Ganondorf said in-game about TWW Link being a reincarnation of the Hero of Time.

Your evidence against that notion is that characters say there "appears" to be no connection between the Hero of the Winds and the Hero of Time and that they are different people. This doesn't disprove what I said though, because reincarnation does not require them to be the same person. You also try to discredit Ganondorf, saying he's insane and that the the creator's own dialogue there is not to be believed, but that is largely a subjective perspective because I didn't infer that at all in this game.

Ganondorf's mention of Link being a reincarnation of the Hero of Time does not contradict the idea that they aren't the same person, because reincarnation does not require that to be the case. I'm going to believe this because it's incorporating both quotes/perspectives rather than just one. I'm not going to respond to this argument anymore unless you can show me something definitive that goes against this. This topic has been hijacked long enough.

Edited by Altum, 31 December 2009 - 11:59 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Ganondorf does not have the magical ability to read souls and tell who's the reincarnation of who. He made the assumption that TWW Link was the Hero of Time simply because he beat his monster and showed he wasn't some random kid. It's related to his obsession complex. Now shut the hell up about this stupid fucking argument.

[Fin]

jacen's translation:

いいぞ、 それでこそ　時の勇者の生まれかわり・・・
Yes, as I expected of the reincarnation of the Hero of Time…

And MPS's comment on it.

It's worth noting that the word for reincarnation, "umarekawari", is more used for figurative instead of literal rebirth, as it's most common usage is to refer to the re-emergence of traits and talents in spiritual successors, such as a painter making masterpieces on par with a great-grandfather's.

So yeah... Ganon was just saying that Link's skills were reminiscent of the Hero of Time.