52 replies to this topic

[joeymartin64]

Yes, but why that word for that purpose? It just sounded good? Not that I disagree with that.

Edited by joeymartin64, 27 September 2009 - 02:49 PM.

[Fin]

I thought I was pretty clear on why everything is the same in New Hyrule as the old one.

the world of Zelda, of course, runs on the laws of narrative perseveration

So, uh. Yeah.

[Raien]

I think Nintendo should create a town called Midwich, in which the cuccos are holding all the villagers captive with mind control powers and Link has to kill them.

[joeymartin64]

Cucco violence in Zelda? It'd never happen.

[Raien]

Cucco violence in Zelda? It'd never happen.

If you think about it, the cuccos ganging up on Link is a great metaphor for the alien children in "The Midwich Cuckoos" ganging up to force a farmer to shoot himself.

[ganonlord6000]

Well, I'm sold. I'm rewriting my document to argue this theory, it's the best timeline I've ever seen.

You should wait till ST comes out to do this. It might crush your timeline and this one (at least the version of your document from last year).

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Well, I'm sold. I'm rewriting my document to argue this theory, it's the best timeline I've ever seen.

You should wait till ST comes out to do this. It might crush your timeline and this one (at least the version of your document from last year).

Maybe not. Maybe it will stoutly refuse to interact with the timeline. It can be argued that certain Zelda games do just that.

[ganonlord6000]

Well, I'm sold. I'm rewriting my document to argue this theory, it's the best timeline I've ever seen.

You should wait till ST comes out to do this. It might crush your timeline and this one (at least the version of your document from last year).

Maybe not. Maybe it will stoutly refuse to interact with the timeline. It can be argued that certain Zelda games do just that.

Still, it might destroy many timelines and/or cause many pointless debating and argueing like TMC and LA(why can't people put this where it belongs?).

[Sign of Justice]

^Because, for LAs placement, using the logic/evidence that we use to place LttP/LA, OoX/LA has more of the same evidence. It's ridiculous, in my opinion, to not even consider OoX/LA because original intent states LttP/LA. Whether or not the evidence that OoX/LA has is important/relevant, we should look into the possibility to the fullest that we can; it would be horribly close minded and bias to not, in my opinion.

I have no problem with people thinking that it goes LttP/LA, but I can't respect someone who throws out the idea of an alternative without even thinking, like many people at ZD do (and people from ZU. I don't have much experience with LA; so I can't comment on that).

As for TMC... meh I don't know. I'm leaning more towards TMC first at the moment, but it varies a lot and changes a lot.

[MikePetersSucks]

^Because, for LAs placement, using the logic/evidence that we use to place LttP/LA, OoX/LA has more of the same evidence. It's ridiculous, in my opinion, to not even consider OoX/LA because original intent states LttP/LA. Whether or not the evidence that OoX/LA has is important/relevant, we should look into the possibility to the fullest that we can; it would be horribly close minded and bias to not, in my opinion.

Agreed. However, it's just as bad to throw away creator's intent because OOX Link is "on a boat, bitch!"

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Oracles/LA does have some advantages with that particular scene, which was clearly meant as a homage to LA. And although Link doesn't know Zelda very well in Oracles, he should know her enough to recognise her (or at least someone who looks like her) on Koholint. The most obvious problem with Oracles preceding LA, however, is that the Agahnim shadow is clearly a copy of Agahnim from ALttP. No Agahnim copy exists in the Oracle series as far as I can tell.

[Fin]

No Agahnim copy exists in the Oracle series as far as I can tell.

There's an Agahnim sub-boss in one of the games. But it's not likely that Oracles Link would consider that one of his greatest nightmares.

which was clearly meant as a homage to LA

Some see it as an obvious homage, others see it simply as the old "hero rides back out of town" trope. Zelda uses this one a lot.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Some see it as an obvious homage, others see it simply as the old "hero rides back out of town" trope. Zelda uses this one a lot.

True, but it would have made just as much sense for him to ride out by land.

[Raien]

Actually, if you all remember LA's plot, the monsters only appeared on Koholint Island when Link washed ashore. It kind of indicates that Link's dreams were the source of the monsters. So therefore Agahnim must come from ALttP.

Edited by Raien, 04 October 2009 - 12:52 PM.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Actually, if you all remember LA's plot, the monsters only appeared on Koholint Island when Link washed ashore. It kind of indicates that Link's dreams were the source of the monsters. So therefore Agahnim must come from ALttP.

But there's no Face in ALttP. In fact, there's quite a lot of enemies in LA that do not feature in ALttP but do feature in Oracles. Although I do agree that LA should come after ALttP.

[Average Gamer]

There's an Agahnim sub-boss in one of the games. But it's not likely that Oracles Link would consider that one of his greatest nightmares.

I sincerely doubt that the mini-boss you speak of was meant to be Agahnim. It was just a sorcerer in a generic red robe resembling Carock from AoL. Also, since Ganon is Agahnim, you'd think that he'd be hiding with Twinrova instead of roaming a dungeon.

[Sign of Justice]

Agreed. However, it's just as bad to throw away creator's intent because OOX Link is "on a boat, bitch!"

To each his own. It's still ridiculous to not even look into the idea.

Actually, if you all remember LA's plot, the monsters only appeared on Koholint Island when Link washed ashore. It kind of indicates that Link's dreams were the source of the monsters. So therefore Agahnim must come from ALttP.

Then the presence of the Angler Fish, Arm-mimic, Blaino, Facade, Giant Ghini (this one is a bit of a stretch, however), Pigblin/Butburin, Pincer, Pokey, Shrouded Stalfos, Smasher, Spiked Thwomp, and Vire (boss form) must come from OoX as those enemies ONLY appear in LA and OoX.

[Sir Turtlelot]

Actually, if you all remember LA's plot, the monsters only appeared on Koholint Island when Link washed ashore. It kind of indicates that Link's dreams were the source of the monsters. So therefore Agahnim must come from ALttP.

Then the presence of the Angler Fish, Arm-mimic, Blaino, Facade, Giant Ghini (this one is a bit of a stretch, however), Pigblin/Butburin, Pincer, Pokey, Shrouded Stalfos, Smasher, Spiked Thwomp, and Vire (boss form) must come from OoX as those enemies ONLY appear in LA and OoX.

But there's a big difference between regular enemies, and one of the game's main antagonists.

[Sign of Justice]

^OoX/LA shares more bosses. Meh maybe Agahnim > 14 enemies/bosses that appear in no other games. I'm really unsure, though, about what to believe on the placement of LA. I mostly just leave it out of my timeline because LA is so ambiguous and OoX seems to imply, imo, that it is before LA, but LttP/LA was the original intent... and it's hard for me to really justify a retcon for me when nothing makes LttP/LA impossible.

[MikePetersSucks]

True, but it would have made just as much sense for him to ride out by land.

Unless the two countries are on separate continents.

Really, it seems that Hyrule is a peninsula country, where it's waterlocked on all sides except for the other side of the Death Mountain range.

Then the presence of the Angler Fish, Arm-mimic, Blaino, Facade, Giant Ghini (this one is a bit of a stretch, however), Pigblin/Butburin, Pincer, Pokey, Shrouded Stalfos, Smasher, Spiked Thwomp, and Vire (boss form) must come from OoX as those enemies ONLY appear in LA and OoX.

All of the Mario Series after the first game is a dream because Shy Guys are from Mario Bros 2. Same problem.

[ganonlord6000]

^Because, for LAs placement, using the logic/evidence that we use to place LttP/LA, OoX/LA has more of the same evidence. It's ridiculous, in my opinion, to not even consider OoX/LA because original intent states LttP/LA. Whether or not the evidence that OoX/LA has is important/relevant, we should look into the possibility to the fullest that we can; it would be horribly close minded and bias to not, in my opinion.

I have no problem with people thinking that it goes LttP/LA, but I can't respect someone who throws out the idea of an alternative without even thinking, like many people at ZD do (and people from ZU. I don't have much experience with LA; so I can't comment on that).

ALTTP/OOX/LA is a popular idea around the entire Zelda community. Even I used to believe this until I read Impossible's timeline. Notice that this is the only game/direct sequel that is challenged because of a boat. That is just like saying that LA follows TWW/PH because Link is on a boat at the end of both of those (only that idiot on youtube seems to believe this. I shouldn't have to say who). I have actually tried to argue ALTTP/LA on many sites with very little sucess (check either of my timeline videos to see my arguements for that. They should be on these forums somewhere).

[Sir Turtlelot]

I fail to see why LA's placement is so important, since the game affects virtually nothing in the overall timeline. It is sequel ALttP, that was the original intent, and there's no real reason as to why that should change. The OS may have been trying to make some kind of connection to it, but it's connections with ALttP are still stronger. There's no real need for a retcon, so it may as well be left alone.

And didn't we already have a discussion about how the OS fits better after the NES games?

Edited by Sir Turtlelot, 05 October 2009 - 05:06 PM.

[GuardianNinja]

I made what I called a circular timeline, history repeats its self in zelda there is no first or last in it, ingenious much?