24 replies to this topic

[Zola Revolution]

Since the split timeline is implied but not official, it is fun to come up with interesting theories about the split timeline.

What does everyone think about this:

Ocarina of Time
*Split*
Hyrule 1: Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, Mysterious Fruit of the Tree, Mysterious Fruit of Tree: Chapter of Earth, Mysterious Fruit of Tree: Chapter of Space and Time
*Split*
Hyrule 3: Mysterious Hat, Four Swords, Four Swords +, Whistle of the Earth

Hyrule 4: Back Story, Triforce of the Gods, Dreaming Island, The Hyrule Fantasy, Adventure of Link

Hyrule 2: Tact of Wind, Hourglass of Fantasy

Diagrammed, it looks like this:
-------------------------MH:FS:FS+:WE
-------MM:TP:OS:OA<
-------------------------BS:TG:DI:HF:AL
OT<
-------TW:HF

...haha. It may not be what the creators made up, but I like this. Its the same; only one can happen.

[GuardianNinja]

Are the mysterious fruit of the trees the japan names?

[Raien]

The split timeline was stated, is official. Stop living in denial.

[Zola Revolution]

All are the japanese names, yes. The full title of (Oracles) Fruit of the Tree is:

The Legend of Zelda: Fruit of the Tree Chapter of Earth / Chapter of Time and Space.


--The split timeline is not official since it has not been released. In statements, neither Miyamoto nor Aonuma have said anything about their full timeline.

Edited by リンクの獰猛な神, 23 August 2009 - 11:39 AM.

[Raien]

--The split timeline is not official since it has not been released. In statements, neither Miyamoto nor Aonuma have said anything about their full timeline.

They don't need to explain the entire timeline in order to state the official timeline connection between OoT, TP and TWW. In 2007, Aonuma stated openly that TP takes place on a timeline on which OoT Link changed history. That's official proof of a split timeline.

What you're arguing is like saying we can't prove Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, because the officially released birth certificate only contained the bare essential details needed to prove that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii (PS: This is actually a real argument). It's stupid logic.

Edited by Raien, 23 August 2009 - 11:52 AM.

[Zola Revolution]

Well sure, you could perceive that statement that way. However, Japanese is a language that explains things with symbolism. Miyamoto and Aonuma have been known to be quite vague and only imply things. Americans have been known to misinterpret many things. When they said that OT has two endings, that could be symbolic. When they said that TP was a parallel to TW, that could apply to real life where they redeemed the Zelda name by making the graphics better in TP than the style they got a lot of backlash on in TW but made the gameplay similar, who knows. By saying that TP was on a timeline which OT changed history, that could be like saying that OT was first in the timeline and was historically groundbreaking. You don't know for sure, no one does. Unless they say 'The timeline splits in 2 after OT and the next stories (after MM on one side of the timeline) are TW on one side and TP on the other because they are parallels to one another in the split timeline' or something specific like that, then it is not official. They want to shroud us in mystery so we can enjoy the mystery and the gameplay as well as the experience of the game.

[Raien]

However, Japanese is a language that explains things with symbolism. Miyamoto and Aonuma have been known to be quite vague and only imply things. Americans have been known to misinterpret many things. When they said that OT has two endings, that could be symbolic. When they said that TP was a parallel to TW, that could apply to real life where they redeemed the Zelda name by making the graphics better in TP than the style they got a lot of backlash on in TW but made the gameplay similar, who knows. By saying that TP was on a timeline which OT changed history, that could be like saying that OT was first in the timeline and was historically groundbreaking. You don't know for sure, no one does. Unless they say 'The timeline splits in 2 after OT and the next stories (after MM on one side of the timeline) are TW on one side and TP on the other because they are parallels to one another in the split timeline' or something specific like that, then it is not official. They want to shroud us in mystery so we can enjoy the mystery and the gameplay as well as the experience of the game.

Oh wow. I'm having to create bullet points for everything that's wrong with this post.

1) Japanese is not a language that explains everything with symbolism; words have literal meanings in Japanese just like every other language in the world. What makes Japanese difficult to interpret, however, is due to how many words their language has. The English language has a lot of words that have single meanings, whereas the Japanese language has less words but some of those words have multiple meanings, which can only be determined according to surrounding context. Looking at the context to identify a word's meaning is what translators find difficult.

2) You can't just take a quote and say "It's symbolic!" and then make up your own unrelated meaning. Symbolism doesn't work that way, and trust me, I've written an entire article on it (the link is in my signature). Symbolism is a form of expression that relies upon historical connections between two objects. For example, the idea that light is good and dark is bad has been around since the dawn of time, so that's clearly symbolism. Saying that a game has two endings when it does not, is not symbolism.

3) The idea that Miyamoto's/Aonuma's quotes are symbolic makes no sense when you consider that they are answering interview questions about the timeline. What you're suggesting is that when asked a timeline-specific question, Aonuma gave an unrelated answer in the secretive guise of a timeline-specific answer. That's stupid.

And finally, I've just realised from your last post that you haven't actually read Aonuma's Nintendo Dream quote, have you? Here's the quote in full; remember it's the answer to a timeline question.

It's a parallel (refering to Wind Waker). After Link defeats Ganon in the future of OoT, he's returned to the time he was a child. TP is the world several hundred years after the time where Link was a child and peace had returned. But in the last scene of OoT, Link, as a child again, goes to meet Princess Zelda. As a result of this discussion, the three related people, including Ganon, are dragged in a different direction to make this story. So in the middle of this one, we can have the scene of Ganon being executed. Therefore, that scene is a story several years after OoT. And so, the executed Ganon is sent to another world, and this time that power will be obtained by...

[Zola Revolution]

I read the quotes for there is an entire post on it. That post is pinned at the top of the Zelda Storyline Forum. I have been looking at these quotes and their context. I also find it interesting that if there are translators that changed the language used in Tact of Wind, then the translators who translated both of the creator's quotes. All I need to see is the interviews in their language of origin and I will have efficient proof of all this.

Also, sometimes people can 'hyperfocus' on certain words when translating, especially if, deep down, they are expecting/anticipating a certain answer. Therefore, we may not really know unless they are specific, like I said earlier.

[MikePetersSucks]

Please don't try Japanese semantics to support your argument. I'm a native Japanese speaker, and Aonuma confirmed a split timeline. Get over it.

[Zola Revolution]

Oh, QooL. Well, OK. Thank you.

[Zola Revolution]

I also noticed something about this timeline...All of the cellshaded styled games are on separate timelines. I didn't notice that until awhile ago. I speculate that could be the design of the creators...? Eh, who knows? I don't even care whether its right or not, it's split and some of the stories will never be told through legend in Hyrule....

[SOAP]

Please don't try Japanese semantics to support your argument. I'm a native Japanese speaker, and Aonuma confirmed a split timeline. Get over it.

Dude! I was so waiting for you to say that.

[MikePetersSucks]

I also noticed something about this timeline...All of the cellshaded styled games are on separate timelines. I didn't notice that until awhile ago. I speculate that could be the design of the creators...? Eh, who knows? I don't even care whether its right or not, it's split and some of the stories will never be told through legend in Hyrule....

It's not necessarily always so. Just the way your timeline and most others seem to go. Besides, who gives a shit on whether or not the celshaded games go together or not? Style isn't timeline-significant.

[Zola Revolution]

Well what I meant was I can see how the creators might split it that way. There are thousands of different timeline theories and rarely are two or three between people are the same. I know mine isn't absolute and it may not be close to what the creators had, but I doubt yours is any closer, either. So, your argument is no more absolute than mine.

The style may or may not have anything to do with what the creators had in mind. We don't know. However, I believe I can express my opinions and theories without being under attack from spoiled kids like you. Fuck off. Tell me your side if you want, but it is not absolute.

[MikePetersSucks]

The style may or may not have anything to do with what the creators had in mind. We don't know. However, I believe I can express my opinions and theories without being under attack from spoiled kids like you. Fuck off. Tell me your side if you want, but it is not absolute.

What the hell is your problem? I'm not attacking you, get the hell over your insecurities or people aren't going to want to deal with you. I'm not a spoiled kid (infact, I'm pretty sure I'm older than you due to the way you behave), but if you're going to throw a hissy fit whenever someone disagrees with you or points out why an idea of yours is faulty, maybe you should reassess yourself.

[Zola Revolution]

I am pretty sure that I am more secure in what I believe in than what you think. When someone presents their opinions as fact and uses it as a weapon to dominate over who they label their enemy; that is when I say "Hey, fuck off." I would die for what I believe in. It really doesn't matter what anyone from christian-America thinks of what I believe because America's culture is dying due to seeing violence as a solution and, glorifying and misusing drugs. People from another country are more likely to support what I believe in than someone from christian-America. Therefore, I feel quite comfortable with who I am and what I stand for.

Oh, and it is pretty hard to pick up on satire through text; especially in English text. So, unless you specifically mark it as such, I will most likely not pick it up. I have a lot on my hands this month, but I always find the time to mingle with fellow Zelda fans; and to mingle with those on YouTube. I read what is there, I don't take the time to sit there and interperet whether it could be a certain emotion or satire because that is a waist of time (*chuckles* and I'm on a forum. lol,,,but)

Anyway, I don't have to subject to other people's beliefs because the ironic thing is; the government gives me, an irreligious anti-American anti-nazi anti-capitalist anti-KKK (anti-terrorism all together, really) person, rights to speak my mind and express my beliefs, just as others here get to do. I know that maybe you are not trying to make me subject to your beliefs, but you are criticizing me because I don't have the same theories as you. You present your unofficial theories as fact like it is absolute. I am not one to assume, but I tried to assume that you were expressing it as opinion, but you never stated it that way. You state it as fact and that is not right.

Now, about you stating that you are older than me mentally. I highly doubt it, but as I said; I am not one to assume. So, since we have never met, I will just tell you what I know and what I think. I know that I am in college. I don't know if you are or not. I know that none of my friends just sit on their asses all day, they actually have jobs, go to college, or they are out a lot. I think that you and I may not be so different, although I know nothing about you as you, me. I think that we can both express our unofficial theories as opinion, not fact. I think that there is a simpler way to settle this squabble right now.

So, where do we go from here? Anything else to add?

[Sir Turtlelot]

MPS wasn't attacking your theories or trying to impose his beliefs over you, he was just disagreeing with them, like what you would do in a debate. I respect that you stand up for what you believe in, I'm the same way, but there was no reason for you to tell MPS to "fuck off".

So could we stop with the insults, so this thread doesn't turn into a big flame war.

[Raien]

Random new theorist,

MPS has been an excellent asset in generating intelligent discussion and developing our understanding of Japanese cultural influences. I owe my Magic article, which has received quite a lot of praise, to MPS's knowledge. You, on the other hand, have posted very little that has not already been discussed and discredited in previous debates. You have shown yourself to be in denial of evidence that doesn't suit you and quite happy to invent connections without thought as to whether a developer would intentionally make those connections as part of their profession (pro-tip: developers do not create art styles to place games in a timeline).

If you have a new idea, then please feel free to present it, but you are talking to people who have been furiously theorising for over three years and who have done considerable research into Zelda series development. You're fooling yourself if you think you're at the same level as MPS.

Oh, and for the record, MPS telling you to shut up is not a repression of your free speech rights; you can still post your opinions with or without his consent. Maybe you should do some research into free speech rights before shouting "Help! Help! I'm being repressed! I'm being repressed!"

Edited by Raien, 26 August 2009 - 03:50 PM.

[Zola Revolution]

Well, since you think I should; I could try to study what I don't already know.

[joeymartin64]

This is going to be off-topic, but I don't care; I'm going to say it anyway, because this is just stupid. The irony of calling yourself "anti-American" in a sentence all about the freedom you have as an American is crushing.

[SOAP]

I also like how the new guy keeps calling it "christian-America" when bashing America puts him in the same category as Christian Extremist Fred Phelps and all his ilk.

Welcome to Amerikah.

Now git out.

[Impossible]

I rescind my previous facepalm post. This is a thousand times worse. I apologise to all participants in other retarded discussions about irrelevant, nonsensical garbage that nobody inside or out of Nintendo actually cares about. This is just incredible.

Edited by Impossible, 27 August 2009 - 02:18 AM.

[Zola Revolution]

Off Topic:

This is going to be off-topic, but I don't care; I'm going to say it anyway, because this is just stupid. The irony of calling yourself "anti-American" in a sentence all about the freedom you have as an American is crushing.

That is just my point. I may not support what the government does most of the time, yet they continue to let me have my say. I believe there can be an America without the christian. I believe there can be an America where you can have free speech, yet the wealth be spread so that all men (humans) are created equal as the constitution says. I may believe these things, but that may or may not mean that I still have hope. America's seeing absolute violence as a solution and it's counterculture glorifying and misusing of drugs is killing its culture. A dying culture kills everything it touches. So, I don't think there is any hope. Too many people have been entitled to everything they wanted throughout their lives to care about others; I look at that as selective socialsim, where only certain people get everything that need (then everything they want) handed to them. The constitution says everyone is equal, yet christian-America is Capitalist. Capitalism only separates people, the greedy from the humble. I think every human is equal therefore I believe that socialism is a good alternative to this inequality christian-America promotes. As Karl Marx once said,

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

Oh, and uh...here is the 2007 demographics of the US:

78.5 % christian
51.3% Protestant
23.9% Catholic
1.7% Mormon
1.6% Other christian

That is why I call it christian-America. There are only about 12.6% or so people in christian-America who are non-religious or unaffiliated with religion.

On Topic:

Style isn't timeline-significant.

(pro-tip: developers do not create art styles to place games in a timeline).

I don't see what the big deal is. Yes I am aware that they probably didn't set the timeline up by style (I didn't even say that). All I was saying was that the way I set up the timeline (not even paying attention to style but by storyline) I later noticed that the styles were on different tangent. I never even said mine was absolute. In fact, I believe what I said was:

I speculate that could be the design of the creators...? Eh, who knows? I don't even care whether its right or not, it's split and some of the stories will never be told through legend in Hyrule....

and

There are thousands of different timeline theories and rarely are two or three between people are the same. I know mine isn't absolute and it may not be close to what the creators had, but I doubt yours is any closer, either.

So, instead of shoving words into my mouth, how about read all of what I wrote instead of the parts you find interesting. However, isn't that the American way, only see what you want to see; but I digress.
My timeline theory is not absolute. It is my theory; not fact.

Edited by リンクの獰猛な神, 27 August 2009 - 10:24 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

@Total Shitstorm: LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Showsni]

Luckily I'm not American so I can lock the thread and change what you're talking about.

But seriously, try not to drift off topic... If you want to discuss American religion, try the Controversial forum. I can;t see much more worthwhile coming out of this thread...