since single won on my single vs. multiple timeline poll, I will have a single timeline.
this is my timeline, and I'n sticking to it, at least until LOZGC comes out
LinkI: OoT_FSL_MM_LA_OoT_LOZGC?
LinkII: TWW_LOZGC?
LinkIII: FS_TMC
LinkIV: ALTTP_FSA_OOS_OOA
LinkV: LOZ AoL
any questions? *Prepares for a bombardment of questions*
My timeline theory
Started by
Guest_lord of illusion_*
, Nov 04 2004 03:58 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 04 November 2004 - 07:43 PM
First Off. Nothing comes inbetween OOT and MM. MM comes RIGHT AFTER OOT. And FSA is sequel to FS, so that has to come right after FS. (what does FSL stand for?) LA can go just about anywhere, but most people place it after LTTP or Oracles. Link 2 is fine. Link 3 is possible, although TMC is about how the Tradition of giving Link a green hat came about, so people are putting it at the beginning. The rest of the timeline is fine, but It would be nice if you explained your timeline a bit more. throwing games together doesn't cut it. You need to explain WHY you put them together, and try to clear up some plotholes that your timeline may present.
#3
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Posted 06 November 2004 - 04:38 PM
First Off. Nothing comes inbetween OOT and MM. MM comes RIGHT AFTER OOT. And FSA is sequel to FS, so that has to come right after FS. (what does FSL stand for?)
Incorrect, MM is not right after, they are "several months" apart. The MM booklet said so. And we don't know FSA is RIGHT after FS..but it is.
#4
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Posted 07 November 2004 - 01:09 PM
I like it, anyway I don't agree completely with Link number 4, because Ganon wasn't killed in FSA and Twinrova was trying to revive him in the Oracle games.
I think, by the way, that FSL means when Vaati was sealed for the first time?
I think, by the way, that FSL means when Vaati was sealed for the first time?
#5
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 07 November 2004 - 03:12 PM
Ah, thanks for clearing that up Bulmaro, and J, I meant right after, as in, nothing important happened inbetween. and a few month's difference isn't....that much of a difference -.-
#6
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Posted 09 November 2004 - 03:26 PM
OK, now that the Minish Cap has come out, I have to make slight adjustments, FSL is really the Minish cap, The Minish cap comes before FS. FSL means the time Vaati was sealed for the first time.
Now, about LA coming after MM, I think that because after staying in termina for 5 years or so, Link decided to get to Hyrule by sailing through the great bay and stumbled upon Kolihint island. My evidence: termina and Kolihint have [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of similarities, kolohint island had owl statues and thier own talking owl, and they both are talking about the wind fish. or you can say that Kolihint island was one of the many dreams Link had at the beginning of OoT, but at the first Link Mistaked Marin for zelda. I do believe that something happened between OoT and MM, after all "many months" can be nearly a year. the reason I think FSA happens after ALttP is because Luke says you don't need a FSA to have a full Zelda game collection, it's just a multiplayer ALttP with a different storyline, villian and I'm not going to point the rest out. Besides, nobody reads the manual, except in SSBM. Sorry about the bad Grammar
Now, about LA coming after MM, I think that because after staying in termina for 5 years or so, Link decided to get to Hyrule by sailing through the great bay and stumbled upon Kolihint island. My evidence: termina and Kolihint have [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of similarities, kolohint island had owl statues and thier own talking owl, and they both are talking about the wind fish. or you can say that Kolihint island was one of the many dreams Link had at the beginning of OoT, but at the first Link Mistaked Marin for zelda. I do believe that something happened between OoT and MM, after all "many months" can be nearly a year. the reason I think FSA happens after ALttP is because Luke says you don't need a FSA to have a full Zelda game collection, it's just a multiplayer ALttP with a different storyline, villian and I'm not going to point the rest out. Besides, nobody reads the manual, except in SSBM. Sorry about the bad Grammar
#7
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 09 November 2004 - 07:58 PM
O.o so just because FSA is multiplayer, means it doesn't count? WTF? that's like saying Stand Alone Complex isn't part of the Ghost in the Shell franchise because it's AU. ((and having a full zelda collection implies you have ALL the games and merchandise, official or not, so that's bullcrap. BTW, who's Luke?)) and what does the manual comment have to do with anything? >.>; ^^
#8
Guest_lord of illusion_*
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Posted 15 November 2004 - 03:01 PM
I never said FSA does'nt count, I'm just saying it is so closely related to ALttP that it goes right next to ALttP in the timeline. It could come before or after(preferrably before) and just forget the manual comment
#9
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 15 November 2004 - 05:49 PM
Um....no. FSA is more related to Minish Cap than LTTP, and Minish Cap comes before OOT
#10
Guest_lord of illusion_*
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Posted 17 November 2004 - 02:48 PM
OK, I just barely got the Minish cap, and this timeline is now officialy outdated!!! 
#11
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Posted 26 November 2004 - 04:47 AM
Um....no. FSA is more related to Minish Cap than LTTP, and Minish Cap comes before OOT
Well as I have already stated on this board I have not played the Minish Cap as of yet, because it has not shipped here to the United States, but I would like to give my thoughts on this matter a bit. Now I am not trying to debate that the Minish Cap is related to the Four Swords Adventures game, infact I have seen too many subjects on the matter on how they connect, so I am not going into that. However I do believe that there is a connection to A link to the Past and Four Swords Adventures. I must also say that I don't believe that the Link in LttP and the FSA are one in the same, but I do think that LttP takes place after FSA. Though I could be wrong since I do not have the complete full details of the Minish Cap, but I really don't think that it will harm the theorizing I am about to suggest.
When playing the game FSA we noticed that Link had to save four Knights of Hyrule all whom were protecting the crests of the Four Royal Jewels. Now how does these four Knights of Hyrule connect to A link to the Past? Well I think that it has to do with A link to the Past's story of the Imprisoning War, but before I dwell on that matter, let's first see what each of these Knights had to say.
Knight of the Blue Royal Jewel
" I am the Knight of Hyrule charged with guarding the blue royal jewel. To my shame, I fell under the sway of dark powers and were transformed into a base creature of magic. The jewel was also cursed and it became a portal to the Dark World. I am sorry for the citizens of Hyrule who suffered...and for Princess Zelda! I trust that you are going to the Realm of the Heavens and the Palace of the Winds. However, you must first gather the royal jewels to reveal the path to the Tower of Winds. There are three other guadian Knights. I fear they too have been changed. Free them from thier dark curses and retrieve the jewels! The light must return to Hyrule! I entrust you with the blue royal jewel. And with it, I place in your hands the hopes of all Hyrule! "
This Knight claims that the powers of darkness turned him into a monster, and mentions the Dark World which is also in A link to the Past. Still one might claim that the Dark World is also in Four Swords Adventures, and while the fifth area that you go to is called that, the only time you are really drawn into the the Dark World is when you use a Moon Pearl, step into a gate, or are transported by Ganon. So could this mean that this Knight might be one of those that fell in battle against the legion of Ganon's army in the era of the Imprisoning War? Well, one things for sure we can't base anything simply on this one guy's statements, so let's see what the others had to say.
Knight of the Green Royal Jewel
" Bearer of the Four Sword. I am the Knight of Hyrule charged with guarding the green royal jewel. The Four Sword was the seal to Vaati's prison. If you have it, that means the seal has been broken. Yet the one who enshrouded me in darkness was not Vaati! It was...Ah! If the one who enchanted me and turned the jewel into a portal wanted Vaati restored....His goal must be to use Vaati to remake Hyrule into a land of Darkness. Listen to me, heroes. You must never forget that Vaati is not the only foe you face. I will follow my brother Knight's lead and entrust you this green royal jewel. Now go! You and the Four Sword! "
Okay this guy admits that a force other than Vaati had turned him into an evil creature, and it isn't to no surprise that this foe is Ganon. Other than revealing that this was Ganon's doing though he doesn't really present anything more to the table, so we must see if the next Knight has the answers were looking for.
Knight of the Red Royal Jewel
" I am the Knight of Hyrule charged with guarding the red royal jewel. Hear now the doom of the Knights. We were bested in battle by a foe with a mighty weapon. He cast us into the Dark World where we and the jewels were lost in shadow. The Tower of Winds vanished and I...No, WE servants of the crown were turned into monsters! The man that defeated us is also the same man who created that shadowy imp. A man from the desert wastes...He is not Vaati. Your dark twin was sent by him to trick you into breaking Vaati's seal. I wonder where the fiend got the amazing powers he now wields. It matters not! None of this allows me to aid Princess Zelda. And yet I cannot go on...Brave ones...I entrust the red royal jewel to you. You now possess three of them. Obtain the forth and bring light back to the Realm of Heavens! "
Now this really sheds some light on the subject at hand. He admits being a servant to the crown, or basically in service to the King of Hyrule. He and his fellow Knights fought a battle in which lead them to thier doom. The mighty Ganon bested them with his Trident of Darkness and cast them into the Dark World were thier hearts would be lost in shadow, and they would convert into creatures of the night, or as shown in the game a Dark Stalfos.
The A link to the Past instuction manual states that: The Knights took the full brunt of the fierce attack, and although they fought courageously, many a brave soul was lost that day. However thier lives were not lost in vain, for they brought precious time for the Seven Wise Men to magically seal Ganon in the Golden Land.
That does sound an awful lot like the doom of the knights that the Knight of the Red Royal Jewel was talking about. The last knight doesn't really offer anything else to the subject at hand, so there really isn't no reason to put his words on here. However if someone just wants to read them for the heck of it, I can edit my post and put it up later.
One more issue that I would like to discuss is that in the Japanese game of A link to the Past (known as Triforce of the Gods over in Japan) calls Death Mountain, Hebra Mountain. Well what do you know, Hebra Mountain is in the Four Swords Adventures game, and both of them have striking similarities as far as landscape goes. So in the end I am just trying to say that Four Swords Adventures comes before A link to the Past, and A link to the Past comes after it, though the Link and Zelda in each of these two games are both different as I believe that they are century/centuries apart.
Going a little bit more into a more fan-based opinion I believe also that the Ganon that we seen in Four Swords Adventures could possibly have been a manifestation body, or perhaps an avatar of the mighty Ganon as he could not truly escape the Dark World at this time, but could cause astral projections to still stir trouble for the Light World, much like he did with the wizard/priest Agahnim. Still that is just my opinion on the matter, and I will be waiting for a response on how people feel about this matter, but remember I have yet to play the Minish Cap so some of my theories could have done been refuted.
#12
Zythe
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Posted 26 November 2004 - 08:30 AM
Royal jewels? Perhaps the elements of TMC (also shown in the FSGBA opening). This theory doesn't work, btw. Is there any significance in holding back FSA in Europe untill after TMC?
#13
Wolf O'Donnell
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Posted 26 November 2004 - 08:44 AM
Okay, here is a spoiler concerning TMC:
WARNING! SPOILER BELOW!
Start Spoiler (highlight area between to read spoiler)
We never see Vaati sealed at the end of the game. He just disappears or is seemingly destroyed.
End Spoiler
WARNING! SPOILER ABOVE!
This makes me think there will be a sequel to TMC where Vaati will return.
WARNING! SPOILER BELOW!
Start Spoiler (highlight area between to read spoiler)
We never see Vaati sealed at the end of the game. He just disappears or is seemingly destroyed.
End Spoiler
WARNING! SPOILER ABOVE!
This makes me think there will be a sequel to TMC where Vaati will return.
#14
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 26 November 2004 - 02:13 PM
"This makes me think there will be a sequel to TMC where Vaati will return."
Naw, really? XD anyway, the above theory about the knights and the Dark World is moot. The Dark World we see is just a peice of Hyrule Ganon took over. Otherwise we would of atleast heard of the Triforce. We also have official word that FSA comes before OOT, where the Sacred Realm was still pure. and the knights were SLAIN in the Imprisoning War, not turned into monsters -.-;
Naw, really? XD anyway, the above theory about the knights and the Dark World is moot. The Dark World we see is just a peice of Hyrule Ganon took over. Otherwise we would of atleast heard of the Triforce. We also have official word that FSA comes before OOT, where the Sacred Realm was still pure. and the knights were SLAIN in the Imprisoning War, not turned into monsters -.-;
#15
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Posted 26 November 2004 - 07:50 PM
"This makes me think there will be a sequel to TMC where Vaati will return."
Naw, really? XD anyway, the above theory about the knights and the Dark World is moot. The Dark World we see is just a peice of Hyrule Ganon took over. Otherwise we would of atleast heard of the Triforce. We also have official word that FSA comes before OOT, where the Sacred Realm was still pure. and the knights were SLAIN in the Imprisoning War, not turned into monsters -.-;
Well as I said it was just a theory, and I have really no knowledge of the Minish Cap as of yet, but I don't see anything still going against my theory persay. Just because word arose about FSA taking place before the OoT does not mean that A link to the Past didn't also come before it as well. Now OoT at first may have been about the whole Imprisoning War scenario, but now the creators seem to detract thier ideas moreso now than ever, and if the legend in A link to the Past was dealing with the OoT, then why didn't they remember the events of TWW. Now you mentioned that the Sacred Realm was pure, and Ganondorf's actions tainted the land, so this must mean that the realm couldn't have been pure if A link to the Past came before it, however this seems not to be so. Remember in A link to the Past the Dark World, or Ganon's world was tainted, but also at the end of the game Ganon's Dark World also reverts back to its former Golden glory, because of Link's wish. So if the OoT did come after A link to the Past, the realm would still be sacred. Still let's go back to the Knights deal here. Yes the most of the knights were slain in the Imprisoning War, however the Knight of Red Royal Jewel clearly states that he is talking about the doom of the knights, so that might go hand in hand. I'll talk more on this later.
#16
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 27 November 2004 - 01:16 PM
But it's factual information that OOT comes before LTTP. that's why OOT was made! You might as well say WW comes before OOT too.
#17
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 04:53 AM
But it's factual information that OOT comes before LTTP. that's why OOT was made! You might as well say WW comes before OOT too.
No it is factual information that OoT comes before TWW, but there is no absolute proof saying that the OoT is before LttP. The only thing that we have that the OoT is before LttP is Miyamoto stating that the game was going to be a prequel to all Zelda games at that time, but Miyamoto also gave a timeline in which nearly no one agreed with. Aounoma shed the timeline on the Wind Waker, and Miyamoto stated that the timeline was indeed confusing. So if the creator of the Zelda genre cannot point out a definite timeline then fans have a choice to assume whatever they want, as long as it doesn't contradict anything in the games storyline, and there is nothing in OoT's storyline that states OoT being before LttP, nor does LttP state that it is after the events of OoT.
#18
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:31 PM
Except that it's also factual information that OOT comes before LTTP. Miyamoto wasn't even the one who put that timeline up there, it was some employee shmoe. And even in that timeline, it admit that OOT came first. OOT also resembles the Imprisoning War events quite well. Besides, that legend had to come from somewhere. It's also possible that TWW happened in an alternate timeline from LTTP, as it moderately implies, but I'm not quite so sure about that. It's also possible that the events of OOT and TWW, after hundreds of years, meshed into a supreme legend of some sort, since OOT didn't really seem like a conclusion to the war. ((wow, Hyrule is like, way older than earth and it still hasn't had an industrial revolution, WTF?))
#19
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Posted 01 December 2004 - 09:40 AM
Except that it's also factual information that OOT comes before LTTP. Miyamoto wasn't even the one who put that timeline up there, it was some employee shmoe. And even in that timeline, it admit that OOT came first. OOT also resembles the Imprisoning War events quite well. Besides, that legend had to come from somewhere. It's also possible that TWW happened in an alternate timeline from LTTP, as it moderately implies, but I'm not quite so sure about that. It's also possible that the events of OOT and TWW, after hundreds of years, meshed into a supreme legend of some sort, since OOT didn't really seem like a conclusion to the war. ((wow, Hyrule is like, way older than earth and it still hasn't had an industrial revolution, WTF?))
Shigeru Miyamoto, one of the main people behind all of the Zelda games, stated an order after OoT was released, and he stated Ocarina of Time was first, then the Legend of Zelda, then Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link, and last A link to the Past. He also stated that Link's Awakening could fit in any order after the Ocarina of Time. So this is what his timeline looks like.
OoT
LoZ
AoL
LttP
and LA whereever
Now many people started to speculate with Miyamoto's timeline decision, and he basically withdrawed the whole account, since he never provided any evidence or proof as to why the games were within this order. Now I know that this timeline order is old, but Miyamoto has never stated another so I was just showing you that he did indeed have a timeline.
Then the NoA staff made thier own timeline theory. In it the order was Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask with one Link, then A link to the Past with a different Link, then Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages next with yet another Link, and then the Legend of Zelda and the Adventure of Link as last in the timeline. So basically it looks like this.
OoT
MM
LttP
OoS
OoA
LoZ
AoL
It was also stated that Link's Awakening could be either after A link to the Past or the Oracles games, and later was stated the The Wind Waker fits in after Majora's Mask, but before a Link to the Past. The only thing really wrong with this timeline was that at the end of the Oracles of Seasons, Link fought Twinrova and Ganon, before he even made his trip to Labrynna to defeat Veran in the Oracle of Ages. I don't think anyone would disagree that the games could be interchangable, but they would disagree on the fact that Link went through one Oracle story and fought Ganon and Twinrova, before having to do the other Oracle game. Still that is a minor quibble, but it was still something fans picked up on fast.
Now Aounoma states that the Minish Cap is first in timeline so people are now going to go with that and theorize. Still in all Zelda Timelines to date, they are all still just theories and none so far has been stated as Zelda Timeline proof.
Now I am not the only one who thinks that Ocarina of Time and A link to the Past do not connect closely together, but there is still a more larger majority that thinks that Ocarina of Time and A link to the Past do connect.
One of the reasons that people disagree with the Imprisoning War and Ocarina of Time being one in the same, is that the Seven Wise Men imprisoned Ganon, not the Seven Sages. Still this is not one of my reasons, because for one wise man and sage mean the same thing, and they could have said that the wise man would have been a magus and it would still be the same thing. So that is not one of my personal arguments. One argument though that is pretty good though is that the Seven Maidens are decendants of the Seven Wise Men, and if the Seven Sages and the Seven Wise Men are the same then how come some of the maidens weren't a Zora, a Goron, a Kokiri, and well you get the picture.
Still that is not usually enough for most people and they seem to think that it is a minor thing to deal with. However the Master Sword was supposed to have been forged during the time of the Imprisoning War and in the game Ocarina of Time the sword is already legendary, Navi even states so. How can a sword become a legend if it hasn't even been used yet? Still most people don't think too much of it, but also during the time of the Imprisoning War no hero at the time was valiant enough to wield the blade, but Link was clearly able to wield it during the second part of the Ocarina of Time. One more notable detail is that the Wind Waker is not even mentioned in the backstory of A link to the Past, and while most will say it is because it is a more recent addition there is still some other things to consider. In A link to the Past Zoras were in the game, but in the Wind Waker there are none, save the dead sage Laruto, and the Wind Waker clearly takes place after the Ocarina of Time.
Now that seems to me like there are quite a few inconsistencies there, but the scholar writing the details of the Imprisoning War did state that [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of information had been lost over time, so [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of this can be refuted back. I personally try to think as open-minded as I can because in theorizing a timeline so I must try and consider all possible outcomes (without messing up with facts such as Ocarina of Time being before the Wind Waker) and not just stick with one popular suggestion. Trust me I know where you are coming from, but there is really nothing that proves that the Ocarina of Time has to be before A link to the Past.
Still if the Red Royal Knight was not speaking of the Imprisoning War, then what war exactly do you think he was describing? I am not saying "whoa I have proof and the Knight was talking about the Imprisoning War" I am just saying that it was interesting to what he had said, and I am wondering what you think that the Knight was talking about.
#20
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Posted 01 December 2004 - 09:47 AM
"This makes me think there will be a sequel to TMC where Vaati will return."
Naw, really? XD anyway, the above theory about the knights and the Dark World is moot. The Dark World we see is just a peice of Hyrule Ganon took over. Otherwise we would of atleast heard of the Triforce. We also have official word that FSA comes before OOT, where the Sacred Realm was still pure. and the knights were SLAIN in the Imprisoning War, not turned into monsters -.-;
Have you played FSA? The Dark world is an alternate version of Hyrule, just like in LttP. You even use Moon Pearls.
#21
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Posted 01 December 2004 - 04:25 PM
Thanks Fierce Deity Link for mentioning that, and it looks like I am not the only person who noticed that. I did however mention this though after the Knight of the Blue Royal Jewel's statement, though maybe he forgot about reading it or something. Still what I think MikePetersSucks is getting confused about here is that Chapter 5 in FSA is called the Dark World, but the actual place in where Link is at, is not the Dark World. The places in Chapter 5 are the Lost Woods, Kakriko Village, and the Temple of Darkness. So Chapter 5 does still take place in the Light World, but the chapter is called the Dark World because it is the first reference that Ganon is scheming and plotting, and Link does have to frequently jump back and forth between the Light and Dark Worlds.
