56 replies to this topic

[ganonlord6000]

I was playing through some of the Zelda games about a week or so ago and began to think about a timeline theory. The following videos explain my revised timeline theory:





http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel



For those of you that don't want to watch all of these videos, here is the simple version:





....A.T...../TWW/PH--ST

MC--OOT

...C.T......\MM--TP--ALTTP/LA--FS/FSA--LOZ/AOL--OOX



Note: It is speculated that the figure seen in the concept art shown for Zelda Wii is the Master Sword. If that is so it will go between TP and ALTTP. Any questions are welcome.

[Person]

I was playing through some of the Zelda games about a week or so ago and began to think about a timeline theory. The following videos explain my revised timeline theory:





http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.c...feature=channel



For those of you that don't want to watch all of these videos, here is the simple version:





....A.T...../TWW/PH--ST

MC--OOT

...C.T......\MM--TP--ALTTP/LA--FS/FSA--LOZ/AOL--OOX



Note: It is speculated that the figure seen in the concept art shown for Zelda Wii is the Master Sword. If that is so it will go between TP and ALTTP. Any questions are welcome.

That's my theory almost to a T. Welcome to the forums, ganonlord!

[ganonlord6000]

Thank you for the welcome person.

[MikePetersSucks]

Aside from MC's placement, that's my theory too. Though I'm a little bit miffed by you already deciding a placement for Spirit Tracks.

[GuardianNinja]

Welcome! , I believe in a singular timeline

[ganonlord6000]

Aside from MC's placement, that's my theory too. Though I'm a little bit miffed by you already deciding a placement for Spirit Tracks.

A few sources from Nintendo has already confirmed a few times that ST takes place 100 years after PH. That's why I put it here.

[MikePetersSucks]

A few sources from Nintendo has already confirmed a few times that ST takes place 100 years after PH. That's why I put it here.

I'd like to see these sources.

[Person]

They were the E3 press release and demo. Turned out the person on that Gametrailers video was actually a Nintendo official.

[Average Gamer]

I'd like to see these sources.

They were the E3 press release and demo. Turned out the person on that Gametrailers video was actually a Nintendo official.

The name of the NoA official who said that ST is supposedly after PH is David Young.

Regarding Spirit Tracks, I see no reason to theorize with it due to the fact that it hasn't been released yet and we don't even know the plot. Nintendo could change its placement at any time and the game could just be one huge trolling attempt. For all we know, the people in ST think that the Triforce pieces form a golden rectangle that acts as a bridge to heaven where their god named Ganon lives or something.

Edited by Average Gamer, 29 July 2009 - 05:08 PM.

[bjamez7573]

Welcome to the forums, ganonlord! its good to hear new voices and new theories

....A.T...../TWW/PH--ST

MC--OOT

...C.T......\MM--TP--ALTTP/LA--FS/FSA--LOZ/AOL--OOX

This is a well-thought out theory. Got some comments/questions:

1) One problem I see with placing FSA after ALTTP is that the Knights of Hyrule still exist in FSA, where ALTTP strongly indicates that all of the knight bloodline but Link is wiped out in the IW. How do you account for this?

You mention that FSA cannot occur before ALTTP because in FSA Ganon is trapped in the Four Sword rather than the Sacred Realm. However, before LOZ, he would have to escape it anyway, so why couldn't ALTTP happen after? Ganon escaping the Four Sword, and then going after the Triforce in the IW seems just as plausible.

2) You mention, as many do on this forum, that the sleeping zelda cannot be the original due to the problem of the Triforce. But this assumes that the NES games must be placed after ALTTP. So my question is, why must LOZ/AOL be the place after ALTTP? Evidence of ALTTP's placement as the NES's games prequel (unless I am missing some) has been removed in the remake of ALTTP. There is no in-game evidence of the Ganon in LOZ/AOL being the same as the one from ALTTP. In fact, there appears to be no connection at all between the ALTTP and LOZ. Therefore, the only logical place for its placement would be before OOT, to retain the original meaning of the sleeping zelda story.

[ganonlord6000]

Welcome to the forums, ganonlord! its good to hear new voices and new theories

....A.T...../TWW/PH--ST

MC--OOT

...C.T......\MM--TP--ALTTP/LA--FS/FSA--LOZ/AOL--OOX

This is a well-thought out theory. Got some comments/questions:

1) One problem I see with placing FSA after ALTTP is that the Knights of Hyrule still exist in FSA, where ALTTP strongly indicates that all of the knight bloodline but Link is wiped out in the IW. How do you account for this?

You mention that FSA cannot occur before ALTTP because in FSA Ganon is trapped in the Four Sword rather than the Sacred Realm. However, before LOZ, he would have to escape it anyway, so why couldn't ALTTP happen after? Ganon escaping the Four Sword, and then going after the Triforce in the IW seems just as plausible.

2) You mention, as many do on this forum, that the sleeping zelda cannot be the original due to the problem of the Triforce. But this assumes that the NES games must be placed after ALTTP. So my question is, why must LOZ/AOL be the place after ALTTP? Evidence of ALTTP's placement as the NES's games prequel (unless I am missing some) has been removed in the remake of ALTTP. There is no in-game evidence of the Ganon in LOZ/AOL being the same as the one from ALTTP. In fact, there appears to be no connection at all between the ALTTP and LOZ. Therefore, the only logical place for its placement would be before OOT, to retain the original meaning of the sleeping zelda story.

FSA is a mess no matter where you put it and the knights in FSA could easily be new knights. Oh. And LOZ/AOL really didn't have a story, or at least not a noticable one. And LOZ's Ganon can easily be FSA's Ganon(Who is an entirely different Ganondorf from ALTTP's, OOT's, TWW's, and TP's Ganon) as ALTTP's Ganon is dead. OOT is also the first chronological appearance of Ganon and keep in mind that the NES games are over 20 years old and the sleeping zelda being the first Zelda won't fit anywhere with the newer games. Also, the GBA remake of ALTTP only seperates it from OOT and in know way destroys the possibility that the NES games can be some time after it. Oh. And ALTTP's Ganondorf became Ganon when he touched the triforce and placing FSA before ALTTP would mean that FSA's Ganondorf would become human again and lose the trident in order for the IW to take place. This is impossible as ALTTP's Ganon had the trident. Also, FSA's Ganondorf didn't seem to be after the triforce while OOT's Ganondorf(who is also the Ganondorf in TWW and TP) was and OOT's, not FSA's Ganondorf found the SR and got the triforce.

[GuardianNinja]

The Sacred Realm and the Dark World are the same place.

[MikePetersSucks]

The name of the NoA official who said that ST is supposedly after PH is David Young.

lol NoA. Worthless.

FSA is a mess no matter where you put it and the knights in FSA could easily be new knights.

It's worth noting that there's evidence in the game script that was ""'d out that reveals that FSA was supposed to be a new telling of the Imprisoning War, and then they changed it at the last minute by having Ganon be sealed in the Four Sword.

And LOZ's Ganon can easily be FSA's Ganon(Who is an entirely different Ganondorf from ALTTP's, OOT's, TWW's, and TP's Ganon) as ALTTP's Ganon is dead.

FSA Ganon and LTTP Ganon have the most in common over every other depiction of Ganon. If you put FSA before LTTP, Ganon dying isn't a problem. Not that it would be, since he can be resurrected.

Oh. And ALTTP's Ganondorf became Ganon when he touched the triforce and placing FSA before ALTTP would mean that FSA's Ganondorf would become human again and lose the trident in order for the IW to take place. This is impossible as ALTTP's Ganon had the trident.

Ganon has transformed back into Ganondorf before. Either way, it doesn't matter; it could be a retconned detail, like many others.

FSA's Ganondorf didn't seem to be after the triforce while OOT's Ganondorf(who is also the Ganondorf in TWW and TP) was and OOT's, not FSA's Ganondorf found the SR and got the triforce.

Such as this. OOT Ganondorf does not claim the Triforce and become LTTP Ganon; TWW and TP make this completely impossible.

[Person]

FSA works much better as a prequel to ALttP, because Ganon is an unknown in FSA. If it happened after ALttP, he wouldn't be just some desert nomad mentioned in passing. ALttP Link is also said to be the last of the knights, as they were mostly killed off in the IW. So the FSA Knights must predate ALttP Link.

[joeymartin64]

Yeah, he really could have meant ST was "after" PH in terms of being the next Zelda on the DS.

[Person]

Yeah, he really could have meant ST was "after" PH in terms of being the next Zelda on the DS.

Then why say "This game takes place 100 years after PH?"

[joeymartin64]

Oy, missed that part. Sorry.

[CID Farwin]

Regarding Spirit Tracks, I see no reason to theorize with it due to the fact that it hasn't been released yet and we don't even know the plot. Nintendo could change its placement at any time and the game could just be one huge trolling attempt. For all we know, the people in ST think that the Triforce pieces form a golden rectangle that acts as a bridge to heaven where their god named Ganon lives or something.

I would play that game.

FSA works much better as a prequel to ALttP, because Ganon is an unknown in FSA. If it happened after ALttP, he wouldn't be just some desert nomad mentioned in passing. ALttP Link is also said to be the last of the knights, as they were mostly killed off in the IW. So the FSA Knights must predate ALttP Link.

FSA can't happen, say, hundreds of years later after Ganon is forgotten? And why is impossible for Hyrule to have new knights? for Link to have kids and therefore have more?

[bjamez7573]

FSA is a mess no matter where you put it and the knights in FSA could easily be new knights.

Yeah, that does seem probable, as Link could have reinstated in the "Knights of Hyrule." I might have to think more carefully on my placement of FSA.

Oh. And LOZ/AOL really didn't have a story, or at least not a noticable one.

They did have a story, most of it is in the manual. Yes, its not as noticeable as games like OOT, but it is still there and still counts.

And LOZ's Ganon can easily be FSA's Ganon(Who is an entirely different Ganondorf from ALTTP's, OOT's, TWW's, and TP's Ganon) as ALTTP's Ganon is dead.

That's possible

OOT is also the first chronological appearance of Ganon

Evidence?

and keep in mind that the NES games are over 20 years old and the sleeping zelda being the first Zelda won't fit anywhere with the newer games. Also, the GBA remake of ALTTP only seperates it from OOT and in know way destroys the possibility that the NES games can be some time after it.

Yes, LOZ/AOL can fit neatly in between TMC and OOT, with no contradictions and is still able to retain the Sleeping Zelda as the first Zelda.

GBA ALTTP is separated from all three games because the only evidence (that I've seen) that places the NES games after is the back of the box on ALTTP and one line in the beginning of the Japanese SNES ALTTP manual.

Yes, the remake doesn't destroy the possibility that the NES games can come after, that is what the Sleeping zelda story does (which by the way, the story remained the same in the port to the GBA, so there is no reason to think that the story has been retconned).

Oh. And ALTTP's Ganondorf became Ganon when he touched the triforce and placing FSA before ALTTP would mean that FSA's Ganondorf would become human again and lose the trident in order for the IW to take place. This is impossible as ALTTP's Ganon had the trident. Also, FSA's Ganondorf didn't seem to be after the triforce while OOT's Ganondorf(who is also the Ganondorf in TWW and TP) was and OOT's, not FSA's Ganondorf found the SR and got the triforce.

There is nothing to say that because FSA's Ganondorf became Ganon because of the Trident means that he loses the ability to become his normal Gerudo self. He doesn't have to lose the Trident to gain the Triforce in the IW. In fact, he has the Trident when you fight him at the end of ALTTP.

All we know about FSA's Ganondorf's intentions is that he was after the Trident. There is no reason that later he wanted to go after the Triforce.

I'm curious, are you saying that ALTTP's Ganondorf is the same as TP's and OOT's? Or are you saying he is a different one?

Edited by bjamez7573, 30 July 2009 - 08:26 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

What about the "ancient demon reborn" line? The trident can easily be a vessel for the original Ganon's spirit and when FSA's Ganondorf stole the trident his body might have been inhabited by the spirit of the original Ganon. Hence ancient demon reborn. Also, the demon Ganon was basically born because the human he once was(Ganondorf) touched the triforce and it corrupted him into a reflection of his dark heart. This was the beginning of Ganon as a demon. ALTTP clearly states when Ganondorf PERMANANTLY became Ganon and unlike his beast forms in TP and OOT, this demon he became seemed to be a combination of a human and a beast form and he couldn't become human again(not that he'd want to with that much power). This demon form from the older games also seemed to be capable of thought and speech. Ganondorf's beast forms in both OOT and TP didn't seem to be capable of either of those.

[Person]

What about the "ancient demon reborn" line? The trident can easily be a vessel for the original Ganon's spirit and when FSA's Ganondorf stole the trident his body might have been inhabited by the spirit of the original Ganon. Hence ancient demon reborn. Also, the demon Ganon was basically born because the human he once was(Ganondorf) touched the triforce and it corrupted him into a reflection of his dark heart. This was the beginning of Ganon as a demon. ALTTP clearly states when Ganondorf PERMANANTLY became Ganon and unlike his beast forms in TP and OOT, this demon he became seemed to be a combination of a human and a beast form and he couldn't become human again(not that he'd want to with that much power). This demon form from the older games also seemed to be capable of thought and speech. Ganondorf's beast forms in both OOT and TP didn't seem to be capable of either of those.

"Ancient demon reborn" wasn't in the Japanese, and could simply refer to OoT Ganon who died in TP. He's referred to as a demon several times in-game, while ALttP Ganon is not. The actual Japanese text is nonspecific, referring instead to "The ancient demonic device."

[ganonlord6000]

What about the "ancient demon reborn" line? The trident can easily be a vessel for the original Ganon's spirit and when FSA's Ganondorf stole the trident his body might have been inhabited by the spirit of the original Ganon. Hence ancient demon reborn. Also, the demon Ganon was basically born because the human he once was(Ganondorf) touched the triforce and it corrupted him into a reflection of his dark heart. This was the beginning of Ganon as a demon. ALTTP clearly states when Ganondorf PERMANANTLY became Ganon and unlike his beast forms in TP and OOT, this demon he became seemed to be a combination of a human and a beast form and he couldn't become human again(not that he'd want to with that much power). This demon form from the older games also seemed to be capable of thought and speech. Ganondorf's beast forms in both OOT and TP didn't seem to be capable of either of those.

"Ancient demon reborn" wasn't in the Japanese, and could simply refer to OoT Ganon who died in TP. He's referred to as a demon several times in-game, while ALttP Ganon is not. The actual Japanese text is nonspecific, referring instead to "The ancient demonic device."

It still had to be owned by a demon at some point and could have belonged to the original Ganon. Why else would it be so near to the Gerudo desert and why was a temple built by them(with some assistance) there to prevent fools from stealing the trident that might have belonged to an evil gerudo hundreds of years before FSA filled with his powers and evil? Ganondorf could have easily created the trident centuries before FSA. Hopefully future games will give us more info on the trident.

[Person]

What about the "ancient demon reborn" line? The trident can easily be a vessel for the original Ganon's spirit and when FSA's Ganondorf stole the trident his body might have been inhabited by the spirit of the original Ganon. Hence ancient demon reborn. Also, the demon Ganon was basically born because the human he once was(Ganondorf) touched the triforce and it corrupted him into a reflection of his dark heart. This was the beginning of Ganon as a demon. ALTTP clearly states when Ganondorf PERMANANTLY became Ganon and unlike his beast forms in TP and OOT, this demon he became seemed to be a combination of a human and a beast form and he couldn't become human again(not that he'd want to with that much power). This demon form from the older games also seemed to be capable of thought and speech. Ganondorf's beast forms in both OOT and TP didn't seem to be capable of either of those.

"Ancient demon reborn" wasn't in the Japanese, and could simply refer to OoT Ganon who died in TP. He's referred to as a demon several times in-game, while ALttP Ganon is not. The actual Japanese text is nonspecific, referring instead to "The ancient demonic device."

It still had to be owned by a demon at some point and could have belonged to the original Ganon. Why else would it be so near to the Gerudo desert and why was a temple built by them(with some assistance) there to prevent fools from stealing the trident that might have belonged to an evil gerudo hundreds of years before FSA filled with his powers and evil? Ganondorf could have easily created the trident centuries before FSA. Hopefully future games will give us more info on the trident.

The implication is that it was created by the evil tribe sealed by the Dark Mirror, and the Zuna built the Pyramid, not the Gerudo. We also have the problem of how ALttP Ganon got it, since FSA shows its origins, and Ganon is an unknown in FSA, but common knowledge in ALttP.

[GuardianNinja]

OoT is supposibly a prequel to Lttp, he got it through you in that, then with it sealed he could have changed the realm he was sealed into the dark world, thus Lttp.

[MikePetersSucks]

Except either way you wank it, either TWW or TP have to go inbetween OOT and LTTP and mess up the whole thing.

The Trident was never owned/made by demons according to the Japanese FSA script, nor is Ganon an ancient demon reborn.

[ganonlord6000]

The implication is that it was created by the evil tribe sealed by the Dark Mirror, and the Zuna built the Pyramid, not the Gerudo. We also have the problem of how ALttP Ganon got it, since FSA shows its origins, and Ganon is an unknown in FSA, but common knowledge in ALttP.

FSA does not show the orgins of the trident. It only shows how FSA's Ganon got it. This is actually meaningless as FSA's Ganon is an entirely new Ganondorf who stole the weapon that probably belonged to the last king of darkness(as the slab the trident was on seems to imply. I need to play the pyramid level again to make sure) and became the new Ganon. Also, the gerudo wern't loyal to FSA's Ganon while they seemed to be loyal to ALTTP's Ganon and also OOT's Ganon. These are clearly two entirely different Ganondorfs. This is possible as there are many differnt Links and Zeldas in the series. There can easily be multiple Ganons/Ganondorfs throughout the series as well that view the trident the same way the different Links view the Master Sword. One Ganon can take over for a previous Ganon. We know from FSA that there have been at least two Ganons(possibly 3 if the Ganondorf from the IW/ALTTP isn't OOT's or FSA's Ganon). FSA can also take place so long after ALTTP that the inhabitants of Hyrule forgot about Ganon. The game's story is also a complete mess either way due to the story being changed constantly during development, even when it was going to be the IW story and Miyamoto trashed the whole idea when the game was almost complete.

[GuardianNinja]

Nahh, in Lttp he doesnt mention the master sword, nor does he in TP, as Joey said, hes probably playing mind games.

Edited by GuardianNinja, 31 July 2009 - 02:55 PM.

[Person]

The implication is that it was created by the evil tribe sealed by the Dark Mirror, and the Zuna built the Pyramid, not the Gerudo. We also have the problem of how ALttP Ganon got it, since FSA shows its origins, and Ganon is an unknown in FSA, but common knowledge in ALttP.

FSA does not show the orgins of the trident. It only shows how FSA's Ganon got it. This is actually meaningless as FSA's Ganon is an entirely new Ganondorf who stole the weapon that probably belonged to the last king of darkness(as the slab the trident was on seems to imply. I need to play the pyramid level again to make sure) and became the new Ganon. Also, the gerudo wern't loyal to FSA's Ganon while they seemed to be loyal to ALTTP's Ganon and also OOT's Ganon. These are clearly two entirely different Ganondorfs. This is possible as there are many differnt Links and Zeldas in the series. There can easily be multiple Ganons/Ganondorfs throughout the series as well that view the trident the same way the different Links view the Master Sword. One Ganon can take over for a previous Ganon. We know from FSA that there have been at least two Ganons(possibly 3 if the Ganondorf from the IW/ALTTP isn't OOT's or FSA's Ganon). FSA can also take place so long after ALTTP that the inhabitants of Hyrule forgot about Ganon. The game's story is also a complete mess either way due to the story being changed constantly during development, even when it was going to be the IW story and Miyamoto trashed the whole idea when the game was almost complete.

The Gerudo were not in ALttP, but that's beside the point. FSA happens when Ganon has not made a name for himself. If this happened after ALttP, we would hear of Ganon's infamy.
The Trident is also never identified with a previous Ganon. The "ancient demon reborn" line was a translation fudge, and the inscription says that the Trident's wielder will become King of Darkness, not that it belonged to a King of Darkness. We also have the Knight problem. Ganon killed off almost all of the knights in the IW, and yet we have several of them in FSA.

[ganonlord6000]

The Gerudo were not in ALttP, but that's beside the point. FSA happens when Ganon has not made a name for himself. If this happened after ALttP, we would hear of Ganon's infamy.
The Trident is also never identified with a previous Ganon. The "ancient demon reborn" line was a translation fudge, and the inscription says that the Trident's wielder will become King of Darkness, not that it belonged to a King of Darkness. We also have the Knight problem. Ganon killed off almost all of the knights in the IW, and yet we have several of them in FSA.

You're missing the point. The knights in FSA can easily be new knights(as the end of ALTTP seems to imply) and it can also be so long after ALTTP that knowledge of that Ganon was lost over time. Look at TWW for example. Knowledge of Ganon and the triforce were either lost or disorted by the time that game's events happened. The japanese line regarding the trident and Ganon does seem to imply that the trident was used before and it never said it wasn't used before. If it wasn't used before then why would the Zuna know to build a pyramid to prevent people like FSA's Ganondorf from getting it and breifly know(by FSA's time) that the pyramid contained an evil force? And FSA's Ganon is clearly a NEW Ganon who was never a threat to Hyrule before and the gerudo didn't exist in real world terms when ALTTP was made. I already did mention that the story is a mess earlier and there can still be leftover elements from when the game was intended to be the IW. I shouldn't have to repeat this again.

[MikePetersSucks]

You're missing the point. The knights in FSA can easily be new knights(as the end of ALTTP seems to imply) and it can also be so long after ALTTP that knowledge of that Ganon was lost over time.

That's terrible logic. The end of LTTP implies no such thing, and I doubt people would just forget about Ganon after he already has myths existing for hundreds of years. If they did forget about him, FSA's geography would look WAY more different than it does. Also, since FSA was meant to be a prequel to LTTP...

Look at TWW for example. Knowledge of Ganon and the triforce were either lost or disorted by the time that game's events happened.

I suppose the destruction of their country, and thus all their written records, has NOTHING to do with that.

he japanese line regarding the trident and Ganon does seem to imply that the trident was used before and it never said it wasn't used before. If it wasn't used before then why would the Zuna know to build a pyramid to prevent people like FSA's Ganondorf from getting it and breifly know(by FSA's time) that the pyramid contained an evil force?

All of this true, but it doesn't mean the Trident was used previously on screen. Especially since LTTP Ganon's trident was destroyed with the rest of his body, so there's no reason to enshrine it.

And FSA's Ganon is clearly a NEW Ganon who was never a threat to Hyrule before and the gerudo didn't exist in real world terms when ALTTP was made.

Then LTTP goes before OOT because the Kokiri didn't exist in real world terms yet. Seriously, your logic sucks, I'm sorry.