21 replies to this topic

[arunma]

So recently I saw a trailer for the new Star Trek movie. I really want this movie to be awesome, but I'm worried that it'll suck Nemesis-style. They tell us that "This is NOT your father's Star Trek." Forgive me for being pretentious, but the Star Trek I used to watch with my dad (e.g. TNG and to a lesser extent TOS) was seriously awesome. Next Generation is not the sort of Star Trek that need to be improved upon. Why not just stick with something that works? Remember: originality is only a good thing if it's an improvement. The Star Trek I'm familiar with is an intellectual show that stretches the boundaries of our imagination, presents ethical dilemmas with no clear solution, and inspires an affinity for science and reasoning. Heck, Star Trek is probably why I became a physicist (at least in part). Not every episode of Star Trek had phaser duels or starship battles. Many were just 45 minutes of people talking and debating. And I think that's a good thing (not that starship duels once in awhile aren't cool too). Star Trek isn't just mindless entertainment and action; it makes you think! Mindless entertainment can be good too, but that's not why I watch Star Trek.

What worries me is that this Star Trek movie will be sexed up, pay no attention to scientific accuracy, present no philosophical conundrum, or (heaven forbid!) require the audience to think. Based on the trailers it seems like more of an excuse to show off some cool action sequences and display some hot alien sex. Not that I've got anything against cool action sequences; indeed I think that good special effects are necessary for the seamlessness of the film. But it's not a replacement for the intellectul quality that's come to characterize Star Trek. Given what's on TV these days, it appears that the current generation of kids was raised to be entertained by brainless and foolish forms of entertainment, and to derive no enjoyment from exercising their minds. Will the new Star Trek movie be a reflection of America's latent anti-intellectualism?

Thoughts?

[TheAvengerLever]

Let's get one thing straight first: Star Trek, first and foremost, is a show for the specific purpose of entertainment.

Sure, Star Trek is both a drama and an action show. Hell, the original series was a little more action packed than TNG. But that didn't hinder TOS's fanbase. From the beginning the shows were flashy and showed off the special effects of the time. That's what the new film is doing as well.

Star Trek will always be a fusion of the elements of its time. Whether they be dramatic, action-packed, or sexed up.

[Fin]

Yeah, I thought the trailer looked a little Nemesis-y. Not good.

Okay, in all fairness I think it looks like it'll be better than Nemesis, and I think if I disassociate from the versions of Star Trek I prefer I'll probably be able to enjoy the movie on its own terms. But still... meh.

[Selena]

Wrath of Khan is pretty much considered the best of the movies, right? It was a sci-fi blockbuster with flashy special effects, lots of spaceship battles, and a personal vendetta. Rather than any especially deep thinking or exploration of science or the universe. You could argue the whole Genesis device thing. Yet that, at least when narrowed down to that movie only, might as well have been named 'plot device.'


I'm a bit cautious too, but I don't want to automatically write it off just yet.

[Fin]

Wrath of Khan is pretty much considered the best of the movies, right? It was a sci-fi blockbuster with flashy special effects, lots of spaceship battles, and a personal vendetta. Rather than any especially deep thinking.

LEEEEEEENA! LEEEEEENA!

Yeah, that pretty much pwns any argument I could make. Wrath of Khan is my favourite, so I guess I don't know what I like.

[SteveT]

I don't think the problem with Nemesis was that it was an action movie. After all, First Contact is one of the best Star Trek films.

I don't think the trailers have given us such little information, that you may be judging it too early. All we know is that it will tell the story of how Kirk becomes captain of the Enterprise and that there will be some action sequences. You don't get people to go to a sci-fi movie by talking about philosophy in the trailer.

I think the problem was that it was practically a clip show.

Edited by SteveT, 28 April 2009 - 07:59 PM.

[TheAvengerLever]

Also, I thoroughly enjoyed Star Trek Nemesis.

[arunma]

Steve, there you are!

I don't think the problem with Nemesis was that it was an action movie. After all, First Contact is one of the best Star Trek films.

And again, it's not that action is bad. I'm all for action. Heck, I'll even tolerate the hot alien sex (it's the perfect opportunity for me to go get more popcorn). I loved First Contact, and I think that the action scenes were major contributors. But they can't stand on their own. There was a powerful backbone in the form of a plot which explored the theme of vengeance. Not to mention the explanation about the origin of the Federation. I left the movie actually thinking about that stuff.

And I would say that Insurrection was even better in that regard. It was your classic TNG ethics debate. That, it seems to me, is a major theme especially in TNG.

I don't think the trailers have given us such little information, that you may be judging it too early. All we know is that it will tell the story of how Kirk becomes captain of the Enterprise and that there will be some action sequences. You don't get people to go to a sci-fi movie by talking about philosophy in the trailer.

Well yes, we can't judge too much. I guess what I'm saying is that the way they're marketing the film makes me worried that it will suck. If it's "not your father's Star Trek," then it really has nowhere to go but down. Maybe the marketing people never actually talked to the writers, though. But hey, I agree that we should watch the movie before coming to any conclusions. After all, once we collapse the wavefunction to an eigenstate, the other coefficients in the Fourier expansion won't matter anymore.

[DarkJuno]

Well, Nemesis was better then Insurrection at the very least. Though my problem with it wasn't that it was an action movie, it was that it was an action movie with guys whom you recognize and know, but something about them seems....off. They are who you remember, but they seem kinda different, either because they had a life altering experience while they were away, or someone murdered them, put on their skin, and was impersonating them.

[SnowsilverKat]

I like the one with the whales in it...

I dunno, trailers can sometimes lie, so I generally let the movie speak for itself rather than the trailer. It's nice to see Kirk again, though.

[SteveT]

And I would say that Insurrection was even better in that regard. It was your classic TNG ethics debate. That, it seems to me, is a major theme especially in TNG.

Yeah, I watched Insurrection again a few years ago, and I thought it was actually really good. I think people were just expecting more of an action movie after First Contact, and didn't judge the movie based on what it was.

Well yes, we can't judge too much. I guess what I'm saying is that the way they're marketing the film makes me worried that it will suck. If it's "not your father's Star Trek," then it really has nowhere to go but down. Maybe the marketing people never actually talked to the writers, though. But hey, I agree that we should watch the movie before coming to any conclusions.

Yeah, marketing people have been known do horrible things, from misleading Lost radio promos to (and this happened at work with me) advertising features that you've only told them that you're thinking about adding in the indeterminate future.


I read some spoilers on the old Wikipedia to see if maybe I was wrong about not having details.....and now I'm worried. The casting choices seemed a bit odd to me, too. Hopefully it'll all work out and we'll have a good movie.

After all, once we collapse the wavefunction to an eigenstate, the other coefficients in the Fourier expansion won't matter anymore.

That's quite possibly the most entertaining physical phenomenon to abuse. I annoyed the crap out of my wife by telling her that as long as I don't have my cholesterol tested, I don't have anything to worry about. "My cholesterol is simultaneously good and bad (and neither!) until I check."

Edited by SteveT, 29 April 2009 - 09:57 PM.

[Masamune]

I never had a problem with Insurrection, personally. There were some weak moments though, like Data seemingly having gone completely backwards in his character development.

[TheAvengerLever]

I have yet to see First Contact all the way through, but from what I saw, Picard was kicking [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of ass o.o

[Sir Deimos]

what they were thinking, quite blatently, was to try and get people who didn't know star trek to become interested, and it worked. i'm the perfect example. i've never seen anything star trek related. not because i don't think it'd be good, or because of the stigma to being a trek fan, i was just never interested enough to want to watch it. these trailers are designed to make people like me go "that looks like an interesting movie". and it worked.

Edited by Synile, 05 May 2009 - 10:42 AM.

[Masamune]

[arunma]

Haha! That was awesome Masamune. Loved the Pon Farr joke.

[Sir Turtlelot]

I think that it looks interesting. No, I was never the biggest Star Trek fan, though I did use to watch the Next Generation with my older brother a lot. I'm going to go see it sometime next week, once my older brother comes home from college.

[SnowsilverKat]

So my dad really wants to see this movie too, so I might have the excuse to go with him. I watched First Contact again on the SciFi Channel last night and it totally got me back into the mood. From the initial release opinions this movie's sounding like it's really quite good, so I'm looking forward to this.

[arunma]

I saw the movie last night (in my town there was an early release on Thursday night). Sometime today I'm going to have to make a new thread with the appropriate spoiler alerts to discuss this.

[Selena]

There's a thread in Media already.

[Masamune]

This was here first!

[Steel Samurai]

Move it to SyFy!